Exclusive War with Iran starting this week? (4 Viewers)

[2Fluffy4U]

Right, but that happens because of diplomacy.

Japan and Germany both invaded and tried to overthrow other countries and their governments were wiped out as a result.

Iran has done no such thing. I don't believe the people are going to welcome the US and Israel murdering their families with comparatively miniscule provocation.

If Israel and the US do as much damage to Iran as the allies did to Germany and Japan I don't believe Iran will be so eager to comply.

These are simply different situations. The US is in the wrong. Israel is in the wrong.

Against Germany and Japan the Allies were in the right.

That matters

The 'US and Israel are in the wrong' framing only holds if you ignore reality. Iran wasn't some peaceful country minding its business. They were the primary financier and arms supplier of Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis, proxy networks that spent years attacking Israeli civilians and regional shipping. October 7th happend because Iran had their fingerprints all over it.

And let's not forget April 13, 2024. Iran launched what was literally the largest drone attack in history directly at Israel — 170 drones, 30+ cruise missiles, and 120+ ballistic missiles. Around 350 projectiles total, carrying roughly 60 tons of explosives, fired from Iranian soil at a civilian country. Air raid sirens went off in over 720 locations across Israel, including Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. That's not a proxy skirmish — that's Iran directly trying to bomb a country into rubble. The only reason the casualties weren't catastrophic was because Israel, the US, UK, France, and Jordan all scrambled to shoot them down. The G7 unanimously condemned it. The UN Secretary-General called it deeply alarming. Even Saudi Arabia and the UAE quietly shared radar intelligence to help defeat the attack. Then Iran did it again in October 2024 — another 200 ballistic missiles, directly from Iranian territory. Two direct state-on-state missile attacks in under six months.

On the nuclear side, 60% enriched uranium with no civilian justification, inspectors blocked, cameras removed, Additional Protocol suspended since 2021.

The Germany/Japan comparison actually cuts the other way too. The reason that model worked was because the military defeat was total and the old regime was gone. Diplomacy with the Nazi government or Imperial Japan before 1945 produced nothing. The peace came *after* the force, not instead of it.

Iran's regime has been offered off-ramps repeatedly: JCPOA, Oman talks, the nuclear fuel offer. They rejected all of them because staying on the edge of nuclear capability is a feature for them, not a bug. A country that fires 350 missiles at its neighbor and is months away from a nuclear weapon isn't a country being provoked into a corner. That's a country that made its choices.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The 'US and Israel are in the wrong' framing only holds if you ignore reality. Iran wasn't some peaceful country minding its business. They were the primary financier and arms supplier of Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis, proxy networks that spent years attacking Israeli civilians and regional shipping. October 7th happend because Iran had their fingerprints all over it.

And let's not forget April 13, 2024. Iran launched what was literally the largest drone attack in history directly at Israel — 170 drones, 30+ cruise missiles, and 120+ ballistic missiles. Around 350 projectiles total, carrying roughly 60 tons of explosives, fired from Iranian soil at a civilian country. Air raid sirens went off in over 720 locations across Israel, including Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. That's not a proxy skirmish — that's Iran directly trying to bomb a country into rubble. The only reason the casualties weren't catastrophic was because Israel, the US, UK, France, and Jordan all scrambled to shoot them down. The G7 unanimously condemned it. The UN Secretary-General called it deeply alarming. Even Saudi Arabia and the UAE quietly shared radar intelligence to help defeat the attack. Then Iran did it again in October 2024 — another 200 ballistic missiles, directly from Iranian territory. Two direct state-on-state missile attacks in under six months.

On the nuclear side, 60% enriched uranium with no civilian justification, inspectors blocked, cameras removed, Additional Protocol suspended since 2021.

The Germany/Japan comparison actually cuts the other way too. The reason that model worked was because the military defeat was total and the old regime was gone. Diplomacy with the Nazi government or Imperial Japan before 1945 produced nothing. The peace came *after* the force, not instead of it.

Iran's regime has been offered off-ramps repeatedly: JCPOA, Oman talks, the nuclear fuel offer. They rejected all of them because staying on the edge of nuclear capability is a feature for them, not a bug. A country that fires 350 missiles at its neighbor and is months away from a nuclear weapon isn't a country being provoked into a corner. That's a country that made its choices.

None of that is as bad as directly invading with the intention to conquer other nations.

The US and Israel are in the wrong because they should be using diplomatic means.

The US and Israel are 100% wrong. Iranian people know it, and people in the US know it. The world knows it.

Perhaps not as wrong as Russia invading Ukraine, but still wrong.

It doesn't matter how you frame it.

 

[2Fluffy4U]

None of that is as bad as directly invading with the intention to conquer other nations.

The US and Israel are in the wrong because they should be using diplomatic means.

The US and Israel are 100% wrong. Iranian people know it, and people in the US know it. The world knows it.

Perhaps not as wrong as Russia invading Ukraine, but still wrong.

It doesn't matter how you frame it.

You drew the Russia/Ukraine comparison yourself. A sovereign country was attacked, civilians were targeted, diplomacy was ignored — that's why Russia is wrong. Iran fired 350 missiles directly at Israeli cities in April 2024. Financed Hamas for decades. October 7th happened. How much wrong precentage does Iran get for that?

There is no 100% in geopolitics. Countries act on interests, not morality, always have. The US has interests. Israel has interests. Iran has interests. Once you accept that, the "who's wrong" framing stops being useful and the real questions become about consequences and what comes next.

Israel is not 100% righteous, I can agree on that. But it's also not 100% wrong. Saying so doesn't make it true ill, it just means you are not analyzing, but choosing a side due to emotional views you are exposed to (as part of all parties listed above interests).

 

[Phatguysrule]

You drew the Russia/Ukraine comparison yourself. A sovereign country was attacked, civilians were targeted, diplomacy was ignored — that's why Russia is wrong. Iran fired 350 missiles directly at Israeli cities in April 2024. Financed Hamas for decades. October 7th happened. How much wrong precentage does Iran get for that?

There is no 100% in geopolitics. Countries act on interests, not morality, always have. The US has interests. Israel has interests. Iran has interests. Once you accept that, the "who's wrong" framing stops being useful and the real questions become about consequences and what comes next.

Israel is not 100% righteous, I can agree on that. But it's also not 100% wrong. Saying so doesn't make it true ill, it just means you are not analyzing, but choosing a side due to emotional views you are exposed to (as part of all parties listed above interests).

The people know. The people know Russia is wrong. The people know Israel and the US is wrong as well.

They will respond how they respond, regardless of your take on geopolitics.

If they feel they have been wronged then they will resist. And they'll never stop.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You drew the Russia/Ukraine comparison yourself. A sovereign country was attacked, civilians were targeted, diplomacy was ignored — that's why Russia is wrong. Iran fired 350 missiles directly at Israeli cities in April 2024. Financed Hamas for decades. October 7th happened. How much wrong precentage does Iran get for that?

There is no 100% in geopolitics. Countries act on interests, not morality, always have. The US has interests. Israel has interests. Iran has interests. Once you accept that, the "who's wrong" framing stops being useful and the real questions become about consequences and what comes next.

Israel is not 100% righteous, I can agree on that. But it's also not 100% wrong. Saying so doesn't make it true ill, it just means you are not analyzing, but choosing a side due to emotional views you are exposed to (as part of all parties listed above interests).

Its worse. Doing it under the guise of terrorism? Placing military complexes next to hospitals and schools? It absolutely is worse. At least militaries tend to abide by the rules of war by UN standards. When a government funds terrorist organizations bent on eliminating a race through unconventional warfare, its absolutely worse. Zero respect for innocent life. To dismiss that as not as bad as a military invasion is crazy to me. One is upfront warfare. The other is deceitful.

Put it another way. Id much rather know a military invasion is coming and make preparations as needed, vs live my life in fear of any random person blowing me up.

 

[riverman]

If they feel they have been wronged then they will resist. And they'll never stop.

Ask any Native American about this and they'll argue your point. Alcohol, poverty and displacement played a big part in "stopping" the Native resistance here in America. They did try to take the American govt to court in Europe but accomplished nothing in the homeland after being invaded. Last resistance was probably Wounded Knee in the early 70s...that's over 50 years ago. Ask the Turkish Kurds and they'll say the same. They also lost their homeland.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Ask any Native American about this and they'll argue your point. Alcohol, poverty and displacement played a big part in "stopping" the Native resistance here in America.

If we wipe out Iranians the way we wiped out native Americans we are 100% in the wrong.

Anybody advocating for such action is absolutely immoral, IMO.

 

[riverman]

If we wipe out Iranians the way we wiped out native Americans we are 100% in the wrong.

Anybody advocating for such action is absolutely immoral, IMO.

I'm not arguing that war is wrong, I just am arguing your blanket statements about the aftermath of war. I don't believe anyone here is advocating for invading sovereign nations but you can draw your own lines in the sand. Ideologies rarely pan out the way they should when weapons are used to promote them. Iran was wiping out it's own people before this conflict. It's not like this happened in a vacuum. Imagine how "diplomatic" you'd feel if your daughters were blown up at school? That situation will just snowball until both sides lay down their weapons.

 

[2Fluffy4U]

If we wipe out Iranians the way we wiped out native Americans we are 100% in the wrong.

Anybody advocating for such action is absolutely immoral, IMO.

why phrase this way? Iran has 90 Mil in population. After two weeks of war and neumerous bombing - can you look how many Iranian people died (IRGC + Civilians).
You phrase things that way and by doing so you manifest a discourse which is far more extreame than in actual reality.
Why is that?

 

[Phatguysrule]

why phrase this way? Iran has 90 Mil in population. After two weeks of war and neumerous bombing - can you look how many Iranian people died (IRGC + Civilians).
You phrase things that way and by doing so you manifest a discourse which is far more extreame than in actual reality.
Why is that?

I phrased it that way because the Native Americans were used as an example in the post I replied to.

I'm not suggesting that we are going to or that that is the plan. I'm simply suggesting that it should not be.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'm not arguing that war is wrong, I just am arguing your blanket statements about the aftermath of war. I don't believe anyone hear is advocating for invading sovereign nations but you can draw your own lines in the sand. Ideologies rarely pan out the way they should when weapons are used to promote them. Iran was wiping out it's own people before this conflict. It's not like this happened in a vacuum.

My point is that diplomacy matters. Diplomatic means should be the primary course of action.

We have lost any moral high ground due to this administrations missteps. So I foresee this ending badly.

 

[riverman]

My point is that diplomacy matters. Diplomatic means should be the primary course of action.

We have lost any moral high ground due to this administrations missteps. So I foresee this ending badly.

Iran walked out of the meeting with Trump as he probably just insulted them ..diplomacy failed if it ever was on the table. It's already ending badly as is Venezuela. There's no plan and we have Fox news personalities waging war. Clown town.

 

[Shaboid]

What a fucking idiot.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[crandc]

You might want to correct your typo my friend. You just typed a Meyers Leonard slur by mistake.

Fuck!!! Fixed.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Placing military complexes next to hospitals and schools? It absolutely is worse.

Fort Bliss has 6 schools and 2 hospitals on its military base.

 

[barfo]

Fort Bliss has 6 schools and 2 hospitals on its military base.

For target practice.

barfo

 

[Shaboid]

Why are we even responding to someone that's been told not to be here? Ban him from the thread and move on.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I remember the good ol’ days, when war didn’t also play out on social media.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Fort Bliss has 6 schools and 2 hospitals on its military base.

Do you think there is a difference between having schools and hospitals on a large training base for the children and families of the military compared to using civilian buildings to house military?

Regime Uses Schools and Universities to House Military Personnel

An informed source says officials within the Islamic Republic have initiated what they describe as a “manufactured casualties” project. ...

iranwire.com

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Do you think there is a difference between having schools and hospitals on a large training base for the children and families of the military compared to using civilian buildings to house military?

Regime Uses Schools and Universities to House Military Personnel

An informed source says officials within the Islamic Republic have initiated what they describe as a “manufactured casualties” project. ...

iranwire.com

Is Iranwire a source you use often or only because you think it supports what you're trying to sell?

But sure, here is what your article says.

Earlier reports had also pointed to the use of hospitals and schools for meetings involving Islamic Republic officials.

And because of a maybe, possibly, it could happen, the answer is to bomb the school.

But your Iranwire article is from March 5th. We actually know a lot more now.

U.S. at Fault in Strike on School in Iran, Preliminary Inquiry Says​

Outdated targeting data may have resulted in a mistaken missile strike, according to the ongoing military investigation, which undercuts President Trump’s assertion that Iran could be to blame.
An ongoing military investigation has determined that the United States is responsible for a deadly Tomahawk missile strike on an Iranian elementary school, according to U.S. officials and others familiar with the preliminary findings.

The Feb. 28 strike on the Shajarah Tayyebeh elementary school building was the result of a targeting mistake by the U.S. military, which was conducting strikes on an adjacent Iranian base of which the school building was formerly a part, the preliminary investigation found. Officers at U.S. Central Command created the target coordinates for the strike using outdated data provided by the Defense Intelligence Agency, people briefed on the investigation said.

Either scenario is pretty fucked up and I see no justification for it. Bombing a fucking school better have more accurate data than either, "Sometimes they hold meetings in them" or "oops, our data was outdated."

Our standards MUST be higher than this.

I'm sorry you don't understand this.

 

[Shaboid]

So what did I win?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Is Iranwire a source you use often or only because you think it supports what you're trying to sell?

But sure, here is what your article says.

Earlier reports had also pointed to the use of hospitals and schools for meetings involving Islamic Republic officials.

And because of a maybe, possibly, it could happen, the answer is to bomb the school.

But your Iranwire article is from March 5th. We actually know a lot more now.

U.S. at Fault in Strike on School in Iran, Preliminary Inquiry Says​

Outdated targeting data may have resulted in a mistaken missile strike, according to the ongoing military investigation, which undercuts President Trump’s assertion that Iran could be to blame.
An ongoing military investigation has determined that the United States is responsible for a deadly Tomahawk missile strike on an Iranian elementary school, according to U.S. officials and others familiar with the preliminary findings.

The Feb. 28 strike on the Shajarah Tayyebeh elementary school building was the result of a targeting mistake by the U.S. military, which was conducting strikes on an adjacent Iranian base of which the school building was formerly a part, the preliminary investigation found. Officers at U.S. Central Command created the target coordinates for the strike using outdated data provided by the Defense Intelligence Agency, people briefed on the investigation said.

Either scenario is pretty fucked up and I see no justification for it. Bombing a fucking school better have more accurate data than either, "Sometimes they hold meetings in them" or "oops, our data was outdated."

Our standards MUST be higher than this.

I'm sorry you don't understand this.

Its not that I dont understand this. Its not that I dont disagree thst diplomacy should be exhausted and war should only be a last resort. I posted as much when this first started.
What Trump is doing is reckless. He did not seek UN backing first and foremost.
However, too often when we point the finger one way, many are blind to their own side that does the same things. Many completely ignore it.
The reality is Iran as it stood was very evil. Very sexist. The issues is far more complex than if only looking at current events. That leaves out alot of context the @2Fluffy4U has been mentioning that goes left unnoticed.

I also agree our standard should be higher. But im not going to judge with condemnation because the spy game is not simple. War is not simple. Show me a war where no side made mistakes?

You shouldnt have deleted my post. Thats protecting fascist people. Why would you want to do that?
Why wouldnt you then also let him know people can respond and/or use ignore? Why allow his fascist post to remain, but delete mine for calling it out for what it is?
I didnt quote him. I quoted you and we are conversing, yet you allow him to say that crap, which is inducing drama, but wont allow me to call it out for what it is?
Sigh…. Such impartiality….
Dont you seriously want to grow this place? Why do you protect the echo chamber so much?
Why wont you allow others to have differing opinions and go after those who cant handle it?
Just a joke bro… just a joke.
Like i said. I liked helping people here. But its not worth it anymore.
He and all else who cant handle differing opinions can enjoy the echo chamber.

 

[Shaboid]

People have different opinions all over this board and not what I have an issue with. You were banned by and previous name, let back in, yet can't let it go or follow the rules that the mods have given you. YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE! And here you are, hijacking another thread because you won't do what the mods have asked you politely to do over and over again. I haven't once gone after your opinion in a fascist way, which is just silly to claim.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

People have different opinions all over this board and not what I have an issue with. You were banned by and previous name, let back in, yet can't let it go or follow the rules that the mods have given you. YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE! And here you are, hijacking another thread because you won't do what the mods have asked you politely to do over and over again. I haven't once gone after your opinion in a fascist way, which is just silly to claim.

It was the mod who responded to me!!! If he had a problem with my post, he would have said so. Mind your own fucking business or put me on ignore!!!!
Stop posting off topic and then crying the reaction you get. I didn't go off topic. You did. Get a fucking clue to your own behavior for once….
You are the one who hijacked this thread woth a post that had nothign to do with the topic. Look in the fucking mirror for once.

I mean wtf man…. Cant make this shit up and the resson why this place has gone so stale.

Now. Ill let you have your last post completely dismissing the fact you derailed this shit. Not me.
Lay it on me….

 

[RR7]

LOL, telling someone else to use the ignore feature. That's rich.