OT Was Robert E. Lee really all that evil?

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I think so.

Well, then it shouldn't bother anyone.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Statue of Chief Joseph.

(Sorry el prez, you'll have to figure out who that is on your own.)

 

[MarAzul]

Statue of Chief Joseph.

(Sorry el prez, you'll have to figure out who that is on your own.)

Hint. That is Wallowa lake.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Statue of Chief Joseph.

(Sorry el prez, you'll have to figure out who that is on your own.)

I went to Camp Lalooska sucka

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Lee was in a shitty situation. He had served this country in the Spanish American War and was a hero. Back then people were extremely loyal to their home states, and when Virginia asked him to lead, he had to choose between his people and his country. He chose his people. He would have been the supreme commander of our the Union forces if he hadn't gone with the confederates. It would have sucked to have been in his shoes. If he had chosen the Union, I'm sure he would have been hated in the south.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Statue of Chief Joseph.

(Sorry el prez, you'll have to figure out who that is on your own.)

I attended first grade at Chief Joseph elementary.

 

[stampedehero]

and..The union placed a huge cemetery in his property.

 

[stampedehero]

Right, every Union side slave owner died years before the war.

If a man robs banks and decides to stop is he better than the guy who robbed one this morning?

The slavery issue was not a center point until 1863 when Lincoln addressed the union with the Emancipation Proclamation. The civil war also had a tremendous number of incompetent officers ( Ambrose Burnside)

 

[Minstrel]

Oh so true. But not their doing alone you know.

What the South did, was their doing. Especially after the abolition movement. The North had its own sins.

 

[Minstrel]

Really! An amendment to the Constitution?

Nothing flippant about it. But let me be more direct, How the fuck do you intend to dictate to southern states again?

Are you under the impression that the statues are being removed under the threat of federal tanks? From what I've read, it's essentially due to local and national pressure that state politicians are choosing to honor. "The South" isn't being dictated to--they're recognizing that these monuments and flags make them look bad and are removing them over time.

 

[Denny Crane]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/mar/03/afghanistan.lukeharding

 

[SlyPokerDog]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/mar/03/afghanistan.lukeharding

Explain how that is even remotely the same.

People are free to dress up as confederates and reenact Civil War battles. People are free to have all the confederate civil war statues on their property they want. People are free to open all the confederate museums they want.

The most popular show in PBS history was Ken Burns's Civil War. It covered both sides. We are not erasing the civil war from our history.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I honestly do not have any clue why anyone that isn't from the south gives a single shit. If they decide to take down their slave statues, or their horse statues, or their fucking micky mouse statues, I really couldn't care less, I don't live there, their statue means nothing to me whatsoever. I don't have "southern pride", im not a fan of the confederate military, I'm not a racist, I'm not a statue aficionado, I am not a history professor, or a bronze sculptor, I don't. Fucking. Care.

They as a community are deciding to take them down. If they wanted to take down a statue in my town, maybe I would care, but it would like have to be a statue of my dad or something.

So why does anybody in this forum actually give a fuck about some shit statue in some shit city thousands of miles away?

 

[Denny Crane]

Explain how that is even remotely the same.

People are free to dress up as confederates and reenact Civil War battles. People are free to have all the confederate civil war statues on their property they want. People are free to open all the confederate museums they want.

The most popular show in PBS history was Ken Burns's Civil War. It covered both sides. We are not erasing the civil war from our history.

For now, people are free to do those things. Until the alt-left come out in force to beat the shit out of them.

I don't really care about these statues, but the effort to destroy them all is exactly the same as the Talliban.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I honestly do not have any clue why anyone that isn't from the south gives a single shit. If they decide to take down their slave statues, or their horse statues, or their fucking micky mouse statues, I really couldn't care less, I don't live there, their statue means nothing to me whatsoever. I don't have "southern pride", im not a fan of the confederate military, I'm not a racist, I'm not a statue aficionado, I am not a history professor, or a bronze sculptor, I don't. Fucking. Care.

They as a community are deciding to take them down. If they wanted to take down a statue in my town, maybe I would care, but it would like have to be a statue of my dad or something.

So why does anybody in this forum actually give a fuck about some shit statue in some shit city thousands of miles away?

Don't really care about the statues. I guess I care more than you if people feel terrible having to see them all the time.

I'm just for having them come down in the proper fashion. Not mob rule.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

For now, people are free to do those things. Until the alt-left come out in force to beat the shit out of them.

I don't really care about these statues, but the effort to destroy them all is exactly the same as the Talliban.

Please stop with the alt left bullshit. Being against the KKK doesn't make you a liberal. Being against racism doesn't make you a liberal.

It makes you American.

Trump for some strange reason is trying to twist this into a left vs right thing and you are goosesteping right in line.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's ironic how low the Trump haters go.

1. Give David Dukkke a microphone.
2. Fill the twitter echo chamber with Nazi propaganda.
3. They've gone McCarthyism on this Russia thing, too blind to see it.
4. Eradication of statues of historical value, a la Talliban.

 

[Denny Crane]

Please stop with the alt left bullshit. Being against the KKK doesn't make you a liberal. Being against racism doesn't make you a liberal.

It makes you American.

Trump for some strange reason is trying to twist this into a left vs right thing and you are goosesteping right in line.

Denier.

 

[Denny Crane]

Left wing tilted source again. About Portland, one of many places where similar violence has occurred.


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/

The Rise of the Violent Left
Antifa’s activists say they’re battling burgeoning authoritarianism on the American right. Are they fueling it instead?

Since 1907, portland, oregon, has hosted an annual Rose Festival. Since 2007, the festival had included a parade down 82nd Avenue. Since 2013, the Republican Party of Multnomah County, which includes Portland, had taken part. This April, all of that changed.

In the days leading up to the planned parade, a group called the Direct Action Alliance declared, “Fascists plan to march through the streets,” and warned, “Nazis will not march through Portland unopposed.” The alliance said it didn’t object to the Multnomah GOP itself, but to “fascists” who planned to infiltrate its ranks. Yet it also denounced marchers with “Trump flags” and “red maga hats” who could “normalize support for an orange man who bragged about sexually harassing women and who is waging a war of hate, racism and prejudice.” A second group, Oregon Students Empowered, created a Facebook page called “Shut down fascism! No nazis in Portland!”

Next, the parade’s organizers received an anonymous email warning that if “Trump supporters” and others who promote “hateful rhetoric” marched, “we will have two hundred or more people rush into the parade … and drag and push those people out.” When Portland police said they lacked the resources to provide adequate security, the organizers canceled the parade. It was a sign of things to come.

 

[Denny Crane]

Those responses sometimes spill blood. Since antifa is heavily composed of anarchists, its activists place little faith in the state, which they consider complicit in fascism and racism. They prefer direct action: They pressure venues to deny white supremacists space to meet. They pressure employers to fire them and landlords to evict them. And when people they deem racists and fascists manage to assemble, antifa’s partisans try to break up their gatherings, including by force.

Such tactics have elicited substantial support from the mainstream left. When the masked antifa activist was filmed assaulting Spencer on Inauguration Day, another piece in The Nation described his punch as an act of “kinetic beauty.” Slate ran an approving article about a humorous piano ballad that glorified the assault. Twitter was inundated with viral versions of the video set to different songs, prompting the former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau to tweet, “I don’t care how many different songs you set Richard Spencer being punched to, I’ll laugh at every one.”

The violence is not directed only at avowed racists like Spencer: In June of last year, demonstrators—at least some of whom were associated with antifa—punched and threw eggs at people exiting a Trump rally in San Jose, California. An article in It’s Going Down celebrated the “righteous beatings.”

 

[SlyPokerDog]

4. Eradication of statues of historical value, a la Talliban.

Tucker Carlson yells, "Taliban... Taliban...Taliban" and Denny goosesteps right in line a few hours later.

 

[Minstrel]

City and state politicians choosing to remove statues that they believe give their cities a black eye is exactly the same as a terrorist army occupying areas by force and destroying the cultural artifacts of those areas.

Denny: staunch critic of states' rights when it comes to removing statues. Considers it a terrorist action, but murder for political agenda isn't.

This is why I hope you never change, Denny. You're a delight!

 

[Denny Crane]

Tucker Carlson yells, "Taliban... Taliban...Taliban" and Denny goosesteps right in line a few hours later.

Why do I care about Tucker Carlson?

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

So is the City of Portland going to take down the statue of St. Joan of Arc on the traffic circle on NE 39th and Chavez (thankfully they got rid of that rascist slur of a name "39th St") because it's offensive to non Catholics???? It seems to be similar logic to me..........

 

[Denny Crane]

City and state politicians choosing to remove statues that they believe give their cities a black eye is exactly the same as a terrorist army occupying areas by force and destroying the cultural artifacts of those areas.

Denny: staunch critic of states' rights when it comes to removing statues. Considers it a terrorist action, but murder for political agenda isn't.

This is why I hope you never change, Denny. You're a delight!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Yes, your Taliban post is a strawman.

My Rommel post was a much more accurate comparison.

 

[Minstrel]

Denny: "the effort to destroy them all is exactly the same as the Talliban."

The stunningly lovely Minstrel: "City and state politicians choosing to remove statues that they believe give their cities a black eye is exactly the same as a terrorist army occupying areas by force and destroying the cultural artifacts of those areas."

Denny: "That's a strawman! How dare you pretend I said something so absurd."

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I'm more curious about the limits to which you people (Dviss still ain't here) would feel acceptable in fighting the trailer trash..errr, Nazis.

In WW2 would it have been ok to just execute German POWs?

I mean, if you ain't for torturing Nazis you must be pro Nazis amirite?

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes, your Taliban post is a strawman.

My Rommel post was a much more accurate comparison.

You don't know what a straw man is. Or logic, apparently.

 

[Denny Crane]

Denny: "the effort to destroy them all is exactly the same as the Talliban."

The stunningly lovely Minstrel: "City and state politicians choosing to remove statues that they believe give their cities a black eye is exactly the same as a terrorist army occupying areas by force and destroying the cultural artifacts of those areas."

Denny: "That's a strawman! How dare you pretend I said something so absurd."

Your posts are foolish.

I don't care about city and state politicians choosing to remove statues.

A nationwide effort to purge them for the purpose of erasing them from the public square because they don't square with their POV is exactly what the Talliban did.