OT Was Robert E. Lee really all that evil?

[SlyPokerDog]

You don't know what a straw man is.

A person regarded as having no substance or integrity.

 

[santeesioux]

Are there any Tecumseh Sherman or Custer statues anywhere? I'd say they were more "evil" than Lee, but I admit I'm biased on them.

 

[MarAzul]

Trump for some strange reason is trying to twist this into a left vs right thing

Nay! The President is not twisting anything, I called it, the same way I see it.

 

[Denny Crane]

The Lone Ranger and Tonto are riding along, when suddenly the horizon fills with thousands of screaming indians on the warpath.

The Lone Ranger says, "Well, this doesn't look good. I don't think we're gonna make it out of this alive."

Tonto replies, "What do you mean 'we', white man?"

 

[Minstrel]

I don't care about city and state politicians choosing to remove statues.

Then you have no problem. If the Taliban asked local officials to remove cultural artifacts, and those local officials complied, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

 

[MarAzul]

It's ironic how low the Trump haters go.

1. Give David Dukkke a microphone.
2. Fill the twitter echo chamber with Nazi propaganda.
3. They've gone McCarthyism on this Russia thing, too blind to see it.
4. Eradication of statues of historical value, a la Talliban.

Spot on! I am quite surprise to see so many can not see what is happening in plain view.

 

[Minstrel]

Are there any Tecumseh Sherman or Custer statues anywhere? I'd say they were more "evil" than Lee, but I admit I'm biased on them.

I'd agree with you. I don't think either man deserves to be commemorated (despite Sherman being on the winning side @bodyman5000 and 1 !)

 

[Denny Crane]

Then you have no problem. If the Taliban asked local officials to remove cultural artifacts, and those local officials complied, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

Another straw man.

 

[MarAzul]

Why the heck does anyone want to change the symbols of history? It will not change history. It can not actual change anyones condition.
It is a fools road to feeling better but it will not be enough.

 

[Minstrel]

Another straw man.

Denny's definition of strawman (which he took from the Patriot Act): being told things inconvenient to his narrative.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Spot on! I am quite surprise to see so many can not see what is happening in plain view.

Ah, so now you see the dilemma those of us on the "left" (gotta have a label, correct?) face......but of course, good Germans from the 1930's probably scratched their heads in the same MarAzul fashion.....at least until their cluelessness became a world wide conflagration and the results became impossible to ignore.....

 

[MarAzul]

Ah, so now you see the dilemma those of us on the "left" (gotta have a label, correct?) face......but of course, good Germans from the 1930's probably scratched their heads in the same MarAzul fashion.....at least until their cluelessness became a world wide conflagration and the results became impossible to ignore.....

Perhaps. But I see no good in mobs tearing down status of historical figures. It will not fix what ails them. There will always be next.
This rage against white is even worse than MaCarthyism and his rage against Communist. You push that one too far....

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Fun fact: those "historical" statues went up mostly in the Jim Crow era, particularly around the time of the founding of the NAACP:

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Why the heck does anyone want to change the symbols of history? It will not change history. It can not actual change anyones condition.
It is a fools road to feeling better but it will not be enough.

Sometimes you need the materials. Some mighty fine barns have been repurposed into hot tub decks. Maybe they will turn ol' General Loseracist into a nice doorknob.

The road of history is paved with relics of a past forgotten due to indifference. I mean, if the only people who really care are nazis, who gives a fuck.

 

[Denny Crane]

Denny's definition of strawman (which he took from the Patriot Act): being told things inconvenient to his narrative.

Oddly, you choose another strawman, and are factually inaccurate (as usual).

 

[Minstrel]

Oddly, you choose another strawman, and are factually inaccurate (as usual).

This guy.

 

[H.C.]

I wish people would stop trying to win a political argument and use the proper terms when talking about extremism.

 

[MarAzul]

if the only people who really care

Great point. It will often apply.

 

[Denny Crane]

Was Lee evil?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/making-sense-of-robert-e-lee-85017563/

At the heart of Lee’s story is one of the monumental choices in American history: revered for his honor, Lee resigned his U.S. Army commission to defend Virginia and fight for the Confederacy, on the side of slavery. “The decision was honorable by his standards of honor—which, whatever we may think of them, were neither self-serving nor complicated,” Blount says. Lee “thought it was a bad idea for Virginia to secede, and God knows he was right, but secession had been more or less democratically decided upon.”

...

In 1907, on the 100th anniversary of Lee’s birth, President Theodore Roosevelt expressed mainstream American sentiment, praising Lee’s “extraordinary skill as a General, his dauntless courage and high leadership,” adding, “He stood that hardest of all strains, the strain of bearing himself well through the gray evening of failure; and therefore out of what seemed failure he helped to build the wonderful and mighty triumph of our national life, in which all his countrymen, north and south, share.”

(In before the rewrite. Get it?)

 

[MarAzul]

Some mighty fine barns have been repurposed

Now you have a winner. I have Resawn some old timbers into some great materials.

 

[MarAzul]

Was Lee evil?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/making-sense-of-robert-e-lee-85017563/

At the heart of Lee’s story is one of the monumental choices in American history: revered for his honor, Lee resigned his U.S. Army commission to defend Virginia and fight for the Confederacy, on the side of slavery. “The decision was honorable by his standards of honor—which, whatever we may think of them, were neither self-serving nor complicated,” Blount says. Lee “thought it was a bad idea for Virginia to secede, and God knows he was right, but secession had been more or less democratically decided upon.”

...

In 1907, on the 100th anniversary of Lee’s birth, President Theodore Roosevelt expressed mainstream American sentiment, praising Lee’s “extraordinary skill as a General, his dauntless courage and high leadership,” adding, “He stood that hardest of all strains, the strain of bearing himself well through the gray evening of failure; and therefore out of what seemed failure he helped to build the wonderful and mighty triumph of our national life, in which all his countrymen, north and south, share.”

(In before the rewrite. Get it?)

Aw well, guess who's next?
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19741...nd-new-york-museum-take-down-michael-qazvini#

 

[Denny Crane]

All this got me thinking about Ike. Ike was a military man, one of the greats. He's also one of the greats when it came to civil rights. He appointed the justices who gave us Brown v Board of Education. In 1957, he nationalized the Arkansas National Guard to forcibly integrate the high school in Little Rock (Clinton's home town). He also integrated D.C. and the Army (it was Truman who ordered it, Ike who saw it implemented).

He wrote about Lee:

"...in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. . . . selfless almost to a fault . . . noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history. From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities . . . we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained."

 

[Denny Crane]

Aw well, guess who's next?
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19741...nd-new-york-museum-take-down-michael-qazvini#

What a bunch of clowns.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Now you have a winner. I have Resawn some old timbers into some great materials.

Totally off the thread topic......but this place is awesome when it comes to reserviced/reused wood. Their stuff is from old barns and houses around the PNW (we have an 8' table and bench they made out of an old PDX house. Old growth Doug Fir with saw marks throughout. Stuff you just can't get new anymore). They are located in the Kenton District. When next you're moored up around Jantzen Beach you should check it out. If this place doesn't give a woodworker a chubby, you better check your pulse.....

https://www.salvageworkspdx.com/

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

All this stuff about people writing nice things about Lee after his death reminded me of this sketch from the show that Mr. Bean started in:

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I finally realized what this entire thing. The world's biggest virtue signaling competition on twitter.

I hate Nazis
Ha, I wanna kill em.
Ha ha, I wanna kill them and their families.
Ha ha ha, I wanna kill them and their families and anyone who doesn't want to kill them and their families.

Hahahahahahahahahaha, in a world with even one Nazi I want to destroy us all just in case there's still a Nazi!!!!!!

 

[Minstrel]

I finally realized what this entire thing. The world's biggest virtue signaling competition on twitter.

I hate Nazis
Ha, I wanna kill em.
Ha ha, I wanna kill them and their families.
Ha ha ha, I wanna kill them and their families and anyone who doesn't want to kill them and their families.

Hahahahahahahahahaha, in a world with even one Nazi I want to destroy us all just in case there's still a Nazi!!!!!!

That's pretty common across Internet discussions in general. Any time a case about a pedophile or rapist or murderer ends up being discussed, there will be a long stream of comments competing over who wants to punish the offender the hardest.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here's a solution both sides can get behind:

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

That's pretty common across Internet discussions in general. Any time a case about a pedophile or rapist or murderer ends up being discussed, there will be a long stream of comments competing over who wants to punish the offender the hardest.

Seems to have gone nationwide. Like ZZ top