Bogus! We are quietly doing Philly's lame "process"

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SharpesTriumph said:
Then why are you confident they'll do better trying to build a contender immediately?
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I'm not confident in anything good happening with Jody in charge.

However, the hardest part of becoming a contender is getting All Stars. We already had an All Star. We now have no All Stars.

Regardless of who is charge it's easier to add 1 or 2 All Stars than 2 or 3 All Stars.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
Pretty sure they wanted a decent wing in return though, even if it wasn't Allen. It was just interchangeable based on who that 3rd team would be. For instance Miami probably would have needed to be Caleb Martin.
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That may be. But we didn't have to trade Dame to make that happen.
 
Phatguysrule said:
That may be. But we didn't have to trade Dame to make that happen.
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Probably, but it depended on who Phoenix liked at the Wing and what we would have had to move to get it.

I don't know your back and forth on this. But Dame on our team with Ayton instead of Nas and Nurkic still makes me think we'd be a play in team.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I'm not confident in anything good happening with Jody in charge.

However, the hardest part of becoming a contender is getting All Stars. We already had an All Star. We now have no All Stars.

Regardless of who is charge it's easier to add 1 or 2 All Stars than 2 or 3 All Stars.
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When Dame was in his 20s I would've agreed.

As he was well into his 30s..... I just see that chance as having been long gone.

I was always on board with the DameCJ duo because if they had got a Paul George / Siakam / Brown / etc type of forward SOMEHOW that could've been a contending trio. Instead we had Aminu/Roco/etc type of forward - or worse. Just never happened.

But once the Clippers trade was done and this team had no assets to get vets - the Dame contending era was completely shut.

I'm not depressed with rebuilding - more depressed that this current roster doesn't have one great young player to build around and is now slotted at pick 3/4 approaching an epically awful draft.
 
Phatguysrule said:
That's what I'm being critical of... That was a huge failure. We went from 2 All Stars to 1. And never came back from that. Absolute and abject failure.
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Agreed. It really started with that year we beat the Clippers in the playoffs. Handed out huge contracts to scrubs and signed Turner for 70 million when he was earning 2 million. After our contract he was out of the league. Hamstrung the team financially with little options for 4 years.

Then the 3 pick draft only getting Collins.

Kind of amazing Dame and Terry accomplished all they did here.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
When Dame was in his 20s I would've agreed.

As he was well into his 30s..... I just see that chance as having been long gone.

I was always on board with the DameCJ duo because if they had got a Paul George / Siakam / Brown / etc type of forward SOMEHOW that could've been a contending trio. Instead we had Aminu/Roco/etc type of forward - or worse. Just never happened.

But once the Clippers trade was done and this team had no assets to get vets - the Dame contending era was completely shut.

I'm not depressed with rebuilding - more depressed that this current roster doesn't have one great young player to build around and is now slotted at pick 3/4 approaching an epically awful draft.
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Might get used to it. Getting great players or All Stars is hard. Real hard. Especially if you have no reason for them to want to be there.

I'd gladly take making the play-in with Dame as long as possible. At least you have a chance.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
Probably, but it depended on who Phoenix liked at the Wing and what we would have had to move to get it.

I don't know your back and forth on this. But Dame on our team with Ayton instead of Nas and Nurkic still makes me think we'd be a play in team.
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We weren't a playin team with Dame for 2 years. Had Jerami Grant and Hart with them too. You think Ayton over Nurk elevates us that much?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Might get used to it. Getting great players or All Stars is hard. Real hard. Especially if you have no reason for them to want to be there.

I'd gladly take making the play-in with Dame as long as possible. At least you have a chance.
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A chance of what? They never had a chance to contend since Aldridge/Wes. I was tired of watching Dame jack up ISO shots and not play defense for a losing team. Was only going to get worse each year as he aged. Dame missed the playin his last two years here.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
We weren't a playin team with Dame for 2 years. Had Jerami Grant and Hart with them too. You think Ayton over Nurk elevates us that much?
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No. I think we were clearly trying to tank both of those years after the start of the seasons didn't go that well.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Might get used to it. Getting great players or All Stars is hard. Real hard. Especially if you have no reason for them to want to be there.

I'd gladly take making the play-in with Dame as long as possible. At least you have a chance.
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I don't think we ever had a chance with Dame other than the year Wes got hurt.

Give me losses and high draft picks over a play in treadmill team.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
I don't think we ever had a chance with Dame other than the year Wes got hurt.

Give me losses and high draft picks over a play in treadmill team.
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We were always going to get the losses and draft picks. They were coming.

We didn't have a chance except when we had Aldridge and Wes. Yet we had a TON of great games and moments we would have missed out on if we'd just given up and started tanking when we lost them.

You're supposed to try and win in sports. There is only one championship game. Not trying to win the others is distasteful, IMO.
 
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wizenheimer said:
Simmons looked awfully good for a while, but then the excrement struck the rotary oscillator. The 76ers could have drafted Brandon Ingram, Jalen Brown, Jamal Murray, Sabonis or Siakam

Okafor was definitely a bust, but the 76ers could have drafted Porzingis, Myles Turner, or Devin Booker

and yeah, Fultz was a major fuckup. But the 76ers could have drafted Tatum, Fox, Markkanen, Donovan Mitchell, or Bam Adebayo

that 'process' was about creating opportunities and it was extremely successful at doing that. The 76ers could have a 3-headed monster of Embiid, Booker, and Tatum; or any mix-&-match puzzle from those 3 options above. That they don't isn't really the fault of the process; it's the fault of prospect evaluation after the process has completed
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It's nice if you a lucky enough to get a top pick when there is some obvious top talent. But those don't come around very often, and with the worst record you still only have a 14% chance at #1.

The Blazers could have also drafted Giannis, Jokic, Mitchell or Bam...if you continue to suck that lock, it probably means you're not hitting on your picks.
 
AmirIcon said:
They actually didn't draft Fultz. They drafted Tatum and then traded him for Fultz.
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Blazers didn't draft Roy or LaMarcus.

Did we draft Dame? Or not since it was the Nets pick traded to us a few months prior.

So if it's traded a couple months prior it becomes our pick, but traded days or minutes prior it's not our pick?
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Blazers didn't draft Roy or LaMarcus.

Did we draft Dame? Or not since it was the Nets pick traded to us a few months prior.

So if it's traded a couple months prior it becomes our pick, but traded days or minutes prior it's not our pick?
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Yes. Because the Blazers made the pick for Damian, vs the Wolves drafting Roy and the Bulls drafting LaMarcus (they both could've drafted someone else, and weren't drafting him for the Blazers as part of an agreement).

iirc, the Blazers caught wind of the Wolves and....was it the Celtics? deal, and drafted Foye out from under them.

Forced their hands and the Blazers got Roy out of the deal.
 
Hinkie's process yielded an MVP with the 3rd pick, an all NBA player drafted #1 who also was a chosen to multiple time all nba defensive first teams, and another #1 pick.

That they screwed up Fultz v Tatum doesn't necessarily diminish the merits of this approach. A healthy team comprised of Tatum/Simmons/Embiid is a perennial title contender.

I wish we actually did what they did instead of jumbled mess of the "process" we have been doing the past three years.
 
illmatic99 said:
Hinkie's process yielded an MVP with the 3rd pick, an all NBA player drafted #1 who also was a chosen to multiple time all nba defensive first teams, and another #1 pick.

That they screwed up Fultz v Tatum doesn't necessarily diminish the merits of this approach. A healthy team comprised of Tatum/Simmons/Embiid is a perennial title contender.

I wish we actually did what they did instead of jumbled mess of the "process" we have been doing the past three years.
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The 76ers had a 4 year stretch where they won 19, 18, 10 and 28 wins.

I'm not sure how that's better than the "jumbled mess" of what the Blazers have done. They lost Embiid for 2 seasons and went full on ugly tanking for those 2 years.

Started one year 0-17 and at one point was 4-28.

The next year they started the year 0-18 and at one point was 1-29 (they ended the season with 10 wins that year).

the first year they had Joel they started 4-18 (and he only played 31 games).

That was some ugly ball that makes things here look Rosie.
 
illmatic99 said:
I wish we actually did what they did instead of jumbled mess of the "process" we have been doing the past three years.
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yep....I've been a broken record harping about the Blazers being addicted to fence-straddling. That was Olshey's M.O. from 2012--.on, and it's looking like it's Cronin's as well. The fact that all 6 of Brogdon-Timelord-Ant-Grant-Ayton-Thybulle are still on this 21 win team is dumb-ass-fence-straddling on steroids

seems like there are only 2 explanations for what Cronin is doing:

1) he intends to try and win with those 6 veterans and an Ant-Grant-Ayton core...which shows he doesn't know WTF he's doing

or

2) he doesn't know WTF he's doing

(there may be other explanations but they would mess up my punchline)
 
wizenheimer said:
yep....I've been a broken record harping about the Blazers being addicted to fence-straddling. That was Olshey's M.O. from 2012--.on, and it's looking like it's Cronin's as well. The fact that all 6 of Brogdon-Timelord-Ant-Grant-Ayton-Thybulle are still on this 21 win team is dumb-ass-fence-straddling on steroids

seems like there are only 2 explanations for what Cronin is doing:

1) he intends to try and win with those 6 veterans and an Ant-Grant-Ayton core...which shows he doesn't know WTF he's doing

or

2) he doesn't know WTF he's doing

(there may be other explanations but they would mess up my punchline)
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Or maybe he trades several of those players this summer?
 
Natebishop3 said:
He has almost completely flipped the roster in 2 years.

Why would he suddenly be scared of making trades?
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Considering he didn't massively over pay for some trade scenarios suggested (which wasn't helped by the spin by some in the media about how great the value of the 3rd pick was), so he's clearly not about to just make stupid trades for the sake of trades.

He did get decent value for Nurk and Dame (esp with how DA ended the season better).
 
Isn't there a 90% required against salary cap teams must meet, each year? Also, teams are only able to have two players at a time on rookie extensions?
Teams have had to pay certain players extra to meet the minimum. Seems JJR was a guy that was paid a bundle for one year for team to meet minimum?
 
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