Well, what Center do you want?

[PapaG]

No I'll give you that they wern't good passes at all...but sometimes that's part of it, what you can come up with when delt something crappy. He goes out, Rolo and Nic go in...Batman to Robin bounce pass (which wasn't that good of a pass either) yet Robin came up with it and scored...much to Mike x2's approval

I've seen passes bounced off of Lopez' hands, too. The guards need to stop with the bounce passes in traffic. Eliminate those and the 2 or 3 lazy pass turnovers each game, and you cut out a handful of unforced turnovers.

 

[maxiep]

Nope. He'll be an unrestricted free agent and the non-taxpayer MLE will be the most the Blazers can offer him.

Pretty stupid move by Olshey. Wouldn't have just taken an extra year (player option) to give us those rights? It costs both Mo and us money and flexibility.

 

[PapaG]

Pretty stupid move by Olshey. Wouldn't have just taken an extra year (player option) to give us those rights? It costs both Mo and us money and flexibility.

I'm pretty sure Mo wanted the 2nd year option, since he knew he was being underpaid this season (which he is). I'm not sure how stupid it was, because Mo is clearly the 6th Man, and without him the bench would have been a disaster with McCollum and/or Watson playing heavy minutes.

 

[maxiep]

I'm pretty sure Mo wanted the 2nd year option, since he knew he was being underpaid this season (which he is). I'm not sure how stupid it was, because Mo is clearly the 6th Man, and without him the bench would have been a disaster with McCollum and/or Watson playing heavy minutes.

It seems to me that he may have gotten over MLE money and that extra year in any deal. Now, that opportunity is likely gone.

 

[e_blazer]

Pretty stupid move by Olshey. Wouldn't have just taken an extra year (player option) to give us those rights? It costs both Mo and us money and flexibility.

A player has to play three years on a contract to get full Bird rights. They can get Early Bird rights with a 2-year contract, but then the new contract would be limited to no more than 175% of the previous contract, IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if it was all agreed to going in that Mo would take less money this season, opt out, and then get paid using the MLE next summer.

 

[maxiep]

A player has to play three years on a contract to get full Bird rights. They can get Early Bird rights with a 2-year contract, but then the new contract would be limited to no more than 175% of the previous contract, IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if it was all agreed to going in that Mo would take less money this season, opt out, and then get paid using the MLE next summer.

Gotcha. Thanks. I was mistaken.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

John Henson backing up LMA and Lopez.

Also, I'd like to see Neil trade into the first round to land Patric Young.

 

[PapaG]

It seems to me that he may have gotten over MLE money and that extra year in any deal. Now, that opportunity is likely gone.

I don't see how he gets anything over the MLE. Next year's team may look a lot like this year's team, with the exception of no Watson and a vet minimum big being brought in, barring a trade. I do think it would be interesting to see what a package of Wes/Freeland might be worth, and what would be available. That depends a lot on one of Crabbe/Barton/McCollum being able to produce consistently, though.

 

[Natebishop3]

I like Mo, and if the deal was right I'd bring him back, but he's most definitely not worth the MLE.

 

[PapaG]

Also, I'd like to see Neil trade into the first round to land Patric Young.

Patric Young is already on the team under a rookie contract. He's using the name Thomas Robinson, though.

 

[PapaG]

I like Mo, and if the deal was right I'd bring him back, but he's most definitely not worth the MLE.

I think you'll find out that plenty of teams are going to want to give him the MLE. He's a proven scorer and ballhandler off the bench, and he's only 31. He won't get a 4 year contract, but I don't see how he doesn't get at least the MLE for 2 years from a competitive team.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think you'll find out that plenty of teams are going to want to give him the MLE. He's a proven scorer and ballhandler off the bench, and he's only 31. He won't get a 4 year contract, but I don't see how he doesn't get at least the MLE for 2 years from a competitive team.

I don't know.... so much has been made about this new CBA. I don't think he's going to get MLE money. I think teams are going to save that kind of cash for someone younger. I guess we'll revisit this in a few months.

 

[maxiep]

I think you'll find out that plenty of teams are going to want to give him the MLE. He's a proven scorer and ballhandler off the bench, and he's only 31. He won't get a 4 year contract, but I don't see how he doesn't get at least the MLE for 2 years from a competitive team.

I agree. And I think someone will give him four years. It's a way of paying him more within the CBA knowing he won't earn his contract when he's 35.

 

[Natebishop3]

I agree. And I think someone will give him four years. It's a way of paying him more within the CBA knowing he won't earn his contract when he's 35.

I think a lot of it will be riding on how he does in the playoffs. If he has a really good post season, he could find some nice offers on the table. If he has a poor post season, it could leave a lasting impression.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Pay Rolo, keep Freeland and give Meyers another year is my view. TRob, Freeland, Lopez, Aldridge and Leonard are an affordable and long front court. We need elite backcourt defenders who can score. A lot depends on whether Freeland returns to form but he's our version of Nic Collison. Leonard has one more year on his rookie contract and if he works hard offseason he may become a defender, if not, there's the trade deadline next season. I wouldn't over pay for any available and affordable 5. Especially one that's injured really often like Okafor.

If we show improvement and get past the first round sure if not we need some changes.

 

[Prue]

So....lets say we make it out of 1st round and are at minimum 'competitive' in the 2nd round. Mo is a 'solid' factor in our success during this run. Now we get to the summer/draft and talk money and moves:

Develop current young talent or trade out and up to fill holes for the next year?

If we want to retain Mo for max money...who is hands down cuttable? Meyers/Crabbe/Victor/Joel/Will/CJ?

I've seen our club over the years dish people who I thought were worthy of retaining a few times and just am no long surprised to see people let go. If one of the prior Centers in this thread are a legit option WHILE offering Mo top money...(Hawes/Okafor/Gortot/Pau...likely not Pau)...do you think the office _doesn't_ package a couple young bigs and maybe a guard out to make it happen? Is this even possible money-wise (You all know more about the MLE and CBA that I do)

 

[riverman]

Strenuus point is valid on all accounts: I like Joel, he did work his ass off and is a nice option. But liking the guy and him riding pine in favor of a stronger center brings to light the truth of the league: Who said things have to be fair?

That said, I think Portland does better than most on this facet of the game and looks to treat players fair...You get a Hawes or Gortat or Gasol or Okafor and you get them to BELIEVE in the rotation and the system. Can Scotts do that? not sure. Pop can for sure...he'll I'll bet ANY of those 4 would fight for the chance to play for Pop 2nd fiddle...like fight in a 8-sided cage for it. This concept though of 'buying' into your role is what I think Portland gets the most gain in the offseason from the bench with. You tell Will, T-rob, CJ etc..."Look, you'll get the minutes...I need you to play your role out there 100%, not try to fill 3 roles @ only 60% effectiveness." This then translates into HOW you get a valued big for backup center. 2 legit starting centers willing to work together for the purpose of wining games. Bring in an elite big man coach...that's what's needed.

Factor as well, Robin (love the man, perfect fit for Portland hands down) isn't 100% the player he was. Post-injury he's lost a lot off of what he had. He's STILL a good center though. But if you can have 2 GOOD centers splitting the time 24 mins each...you can keep BOTH of them healthy! Right now, like many teams...we wear down our starting centers with 'starting' minutes and are screwed if one goes down. Joel showed he can come and and play. Add 2 years to his game at the progress level he had been showing and BOOM we are right there...But if you've got that in the wings, and can have a 3-center rotation (makes more sense with Hawes who can spread out defense since you have to somewhat honor his shot) you get MANY more offensive and defense sets than we currently have. Want to run a twin-towers? DONE, defense lock down with Robin + Gortat for 5-6 mins. Want to pick up the offensive pace with 2nd unit but still be able to rebound? DONE, Will, T-rob, Mo, CJ and Hawes activate! Just saying, gives you MORE than just a Robin <> Joel swap in rotation does.

I think we're forgetting how good Joel was and how important he was to our early season success. Another factor is age, we did the Camby, Jared Jeffries, Kurt Thomas thing without stellar results. Perfect example of a mistake was trading a young Jermaine O'Neal (at the time looked at like a Meyers Leonard) to Indy for an old Dale Davis. O'Neal went on to become an allstar right after the trade and Dale Davis just looked....old. I just don't see a great pressing need to spend the bank on an aging center. If you could trade Meyers for a Vucevic...hell yeah! Spencer Hawes has skills but isn't cheap anymore and has never impacted a franchise in his career in the win column.Bring in an elite defensive asst coach and big man coach to address the young guys development. That's where I'd start

 

[PapaG]

So....lets say we make it out of 1st round and are at minimum 'competitive' in the 2nd round. Mo is a 'solid' factor in our success during this run. Now we get to the summer/draft and talk money and moves:

Develop current young talent or trade out and up to fill holes for the next year?

If we want to retain Mo for max money...who is hands down cuttable? Meyers/Crabbe/Victor/Joel/Will/CJ?

I've seen our club over the years dish people who I thought were worthy of retaining a few times and just am no long surprised to see people let go. If one of the prior Centers in this thread are a legit option WHILE offering Mo top money...(Hawes/Okafor/Gortot/Pau...likely not Pau)...do you think the office _doesn't_ package a couple young bigs and maybe a guard out to make it happen? Is this even possible money-wise (You all know more about the MLE and CBA that I do)

Do you mean max contract, or full MLE? If it's full MLE, I already think Mo is coming back to Portland, unless he's offered more elsewhere. I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE, though.

 

[riverman]

Do you mean max contract, or full MLE? If it's full MLE, I already think Mo is coming back to Portland, unless he's offered more elsewhere. I wouldn't pay him more than the MLE, though.

I'd agree with this

 

[Hobbesarable]

Bring in an elite defensive asst coach and big man coach to address the young guys development. That's where I'd start

That's where they should have started from the beginning.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Kosta Koufos is actually the type of backup that would be perfect for this team.

One year left on his deal.

 

[PapaG]

Kosta Koufos is actually the type of backup that would be perfect for this team.

One year left on his deal.

See, that I agree with quite a bit. Wanting to bring in Hawes for a 4-year contract right now just doesn't make sense to me. Sure, he's put up some numbers this year, but I'm leery of guys in a contract year playing for a bad team.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

That's a good idea.

 

[Schilly]

You know what's interesting?

Robin Lopez was the #15 pick in the draft. He has started more than half his games in the NBA. His 1st 4 seasons went like this.

3.2ppg, 2.0rpg
8.4ppg, 4.0rpg
6.4ppg, 3.2rpg
5.4ppg, 3.3rpg

Then he jumped a bit, so did his PT. His production per 36 has been pretty steady.
11.3ppg, 5.6rpg
10.9ppg, 8.5rpg

Meyers Leonard came into the league at the same age of 20. His 1st 2 seasons have looked like this, per 36 (Robins per 26 for the same age.)
11.3pts, 7.6reb (11.1pts, 6.9reb)
9.7pts, 11.7reb (15.7pts, 9.1reb)

Meyers and Alex Len play about the same number of minutes for their teams. Len is averaging 2.2pts and 2.4 reb, and was the 5th overall pick. Should Phoenix wash their hands of him?

What does all this mean? Not a ton, but you can look around the league and as a whole Centers don't really start to be very effective until their 4th season. Both players struggled with fouls their 1st 2 seasons.

 

[Schilly]

Another similar example 20yo Rookie Center #12 pick Steven Adams per 36, 7.9pts and 10.6 reb, and he has started 20 games.

 

[illmatic99]

What if you add blocked shots or DRTG to that comparison? That's my biggest problem with him. He defense like a guard and he doesn't realize how tall he is or something.

I don't really care about his scoring ability. And even the reb stat is a bit deceiving. Robin's numbers are low, but the team rebounds better with him on the floor because he boxes out guys. Can we say the same about Leonard?

 

[Hobbesarable]

You know what's interesting?

Robin Lopez was the #15 pick in the draft. He has started more than half his games in the NBA. His 1st 4 seasons went like this.

3.2ppg, 2.0rpg
8.4ppg, 4.0rpg
6.4ppg, 3.2rpg
5.4ppg, 3.3rpg

Then he jumped a bit, so did his PT. His production per 36 has been pretty steady.
11.3ppg, 5.6rpg
10.9ppg, 8.5rpg

Meyers Leonard came into the league at the same age of 20. His 1st 2 seasons have looked like this, per 36 (Robins per 26 for the same age.)
11.3pts, 7.6reb (11.1pts, 6.9reb)
9.7pts, 11.7reb (15.7pts, 9.1reb)

Meyers and Alex Len play about the same number of minutes for their teams. Len is averaging 2.2pts and 2.4 reb, and was the 5th overall pick. Should Phoenix wash their hands of him?

What does all this mean? Not a ton, but you can look around the league and as a whole Centers don't really start to be very effective until their 4th season. Both players struggled with fouls their 1st 2 seasons.

That shows hope if you never watched Meyers Leonard play in the NBA.

 

[PapaG]

What if you add blocked shots or DRTG to that comparison? That's my biggest problem with him. He defense like a guard and he doesn't realize how tall he is or something.

I don't really care about his scoring ability. And even the reb stat is a bit deceiving. Robin's numbers are low, but the team rebounds better with him on the floor because he boxes out guys. Can we say the same about Leonard?

For this team only, Leonard is 3rd in Drtg at 105.

LMA and Robinson are at 104.

Next best is a big group, including Lopez and Freeland. at 107.

 

[magnifier661]

For this team only, Leonard is 3rd in Drtg at 105.

LMA and Robinson are at 104.

Next best is a big group, including Lopez and Freeland. at 107.

I always get this confused but I thought the lower number is better

 

[BBert]

I was looking at Meyers' stats yesterday. What struck me (going off my failing memory) is that he's playing half the minutes per game as last year, and in fewer games. In those games, his shooting percentages are a bit lower, which I'd attribute to inconsistent minutes and small sample size. But on a per minute basis, virtually all his other stats are improved -- with the exception of blocked shots. It's clear that the coaching staff has told him to flat out don't go for blocks, and to keep his verticality ala Freeland and Lopez. I think they are deconstrucing his game so they can build it back under their guidance. Hence, he's looking pretty tentative most of the time.

He's a project. Let the coaches do their job. We'll see if he was worth the minimal investment in 2 or 3 years. I figure it's not worth bunching my panties over, and in fact, it might work out pretty well. For example: we resign him on a cheap contract because he's 'not there' yet, then he finally develops. Like Lopez.