What has happened to CJ's free throw shooting %?

[Haakzilla]

He. Got. Paid. (and in his own words, that is legend status)

 

[Blazers Roy]

Nah that's BS. It's because he rarely attacks the rim.

Chicken and the egg my friend. I'm saying WHY he doesn't drive to the rim more, you're showing me the numbers which indicates he doesn't do it.

 

[SIeepwalker]

Chicken and the egg my friend. I'm saying WHY he doesn't drive to the rim more, you're showing me the numbers which indicates he doesn't do it.

Here is CJ percentages of shots taken at the rim each season since he became a starter:

2015-16: 16.9%
2016-17: 17.6%
2017-18: 18.7%
2018-19: 17.6%
2019-20: 16.9%

The mirror effect is uncanny, but aside from that, can you point to me when CJ realized that he should stop driving to the rim because he doesn't get calls ?

 

[Blazers Roy]

Here is CJ percentages of shots taken at the rim each season since he became a starter:

2015-16: 16.9%
2016-17: 17.6%
2017-18: 18.7%
2018-19: 17.6%
2019-20: 16.9%

The mirror effect is uncanny, but aside from that, can you point to me when CJ realized that he should stop driving to the rim because he doesn't get calls ?

It's speculation of course, but i watch how he and Lillard get smacked when they go to the rim and i see their frustration when they dont get any calls.

Lillard is able to both mentally and physically overcome this and his "layup package" is more complete thanks to his athleticism, CJ seems to go around that problem since statistically he was one of the best midrange shooters in a league which mostly allow open shots from that range.

 

[H.C.]

I agree with the play....nothing wrong with that. The issue is bigger picture. It was a few plays in a game. He does do somethings unselfishly, but I'm looking at a much bigger picture than a few plays a game. A season, several seasons, a career?

Actually you're not looking at the bigger picture at all.
You're looking at the easy stuff. Stuff that someone whos watching basketball for the very first time could see. Simply because it's glaring. I'm not defending CJ in the fact that he's a flawed player.

But the overall game is not much hustle on defense (to me, that is selfish) and a lot of Iso or ignoring of teammates on offense when he is not that efficient. (again, that seems selfish)

Stuff like this is easy to see. All you have to do is watch the ball.
CJ has made plays like I pointed out this throughout his entire career. He continues to make them every game he plays in.
However you don't see those because it's easier to watch the ball and go. ''Hm cj is selfish because when he has the ball he misses teammates, over dribbles, doesn't hustle on defense etc.''

It's hard to see plays like I pointed out here. Why? It's certainly not because CJ isn't attempting to make them all game long.
These plays however show he's not selfish. They do prove he's flawed.

 

[jlprk]

This thread could have saved a page of Honkie's posts, if someone a page ago, instead of using the word "selfish" had just said, "Stotts trained McCollum to think only of shooting." The same as Trent now.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I think CJ developed a style of play when he was very young and very undersized compared to those he played against. This style avoided contact as much as possible because who wants to get knocked down every day by a lot bigger guy. I also think it required a tremendous amount of focus for CJ to score over an entire team that was much bigger than him. He still has that tunnel vision focus. To me, it's his early times as a "midget" that shaped his style. Later he grew a lot but has never been able to outgrow those early habits. So it's hard for me to be angry at him; I just would prefer that he was on another team.

 

[handiman]

Can we just trade the half dozen posters who want to turn every thread into a "CJ sucks" thread? It takes too long for the playoffs to arrive -- where CJ is always our best player -- to shut them up temporarily.

 

[wizenheimer]

Can we just trade the half dozen posters who want to turn every thread into a "CJ sucks" thread? It takes too long for the playoffs to arrive -- where CJ is always our best player -- to shut them up temporarily.

2018-19 playoffs:

PER: CJ 17.9....Dame 20.6
TS%: CJ .527....Dame .566
points/shot: CJ 1.13....Dame 1.30
FT rate: CJ .160....Dame .345
winshares: CJ 1.0....Dame 1.6
winshares/48: CJ .079...Dame .119
off rating: CJ 108....Dame 111
def rating: CJ 115....Dame 113
OBPM: CJ 2.4....Dame 5.4
DBPM: CJ -1.2....Dame -0.6
BPM: CJ 1.2....Dame 4.9
VORP: CJ 0.5....Dame 1.1

that "CJ is always the best player" is bullshit. Check it out if you don't believe it. It's been the Dame/CJ team for 4 playoffs now, and Dame has been better in 3 of 4 playoffs. The only playoffs CJ has been better is the 2017-18 playoffs when the Pelicans doubled, tripled and trapped Dame all over the floor. The one playoffs when CJ was better Portland won 0 games; when Dame was better Portland won 13 games. Pretty clear who has an impact on winning

 

[handiman]

that "CJ is always the best player" is bullshit.

Run the same numbers ignoring the OKC series, if you dare. That's the only series going back to Houston that Dame has been above mediocre, and we all knew going in that it was his chance to shine if OKC/Russ were dumb and proud enough to guard him straight up. Denver and GS ... he was back to not knowing how to handle a trap.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Run the same numbers ignoring the OKC series, if you dare. That's the only series going back to Houston that Dame has been above mediocre, and we all knew going in that it was his chance to shine if OKC/Russ were dumb and proud enough to guard him straight up. Denver and GS ... he was back to not knowing how to handle a trap.

The trap narrative from last year with Dame doesnt really ring true IMO. Denver did trap some, but their biggest issue against Denver and GS was rebounding, and transition defense, especially GS Draymond wrecked them... Though I do agree that Dame hasnt performed up his standards in the playoffs.

 

[wizenheimer]

Run the same numbers ignoring the OKC series, if you dare. That's the only series going back to Houston that Dame has been above mediocre, and we all knew going in that it was his chance to shine if OKC/Russ were dumb and proud enough to guard him straight up. Denver and GS ... he was back to not knowing how to handle a trap.

LOL...so, it's gone from "CJ is always the best player in the playoffs" to Dame wasn't good last season, in 2 of 3 playoffs

against OKC:




against Denver:



(in case you're wondering, CJ averaged 1.12 points/shot in that series, Dame averaged 1.21 points/shot. CJ scored 9 more points on 20 more shots)

against Golden State:



the one series last year that CJ supposedly played better, against Denver, there was practically no difference at all, and Dame was arguably more efficient. CJ fans point to game 7 against Denver all the time as if that was some kind of vindication for all slings and arrows CJ suffers. But if CJ was so integral to Portland's playoff chances, and is he was worthy of 31M/year, then CJ would have showed up against the Warriors when they doubled, tripled, hedged and trapped Dame all over the floor....while single-covering CJ and rarely doubling him. I mean, it was the WC finals and CJ needed to help Dame and the team out by picking up the slack from the Warriors Dame-centric defense...but he disappeared. He took 14 more shots than Dame and scored 1 less point

I don't mind people being big fans of CJ, but a lot of the time they seem to come up with arguments that don't withstand much scrutiny.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I get it. I brought up a play that countered the narrative you like to post about in every game thread.
I'm not going to go and bump those threads because it's not worth the effort.
Just like reading and responding to you once my point was proven was far from worth the effort.

I'm not going to continue to bring up. 'Oh sometimes this happens' Because frankly. Those like you who think CJ is selfish and hurting the team will never change their opinion.
Even when he does this.



CJ is a flawed player. But you could do a lot worse. Like Simons.
I'm glad you, and others are not in charge of the Blazers basketball decisions. Team would be even more in the shitter.

From my post in the Simons thread:

Simons Stats sans January (calculated "by hand"):
FG: 147/337 = 43.6% (Jan: 35.1%, Season: 41.5%) edit: CJ: 44.6%
3FG: 54/145 = 37.2% (Jan: 23.3%, Season: 34.0%) edit: CJ: 38.3%
FT: 45/56 = 80.3% (Jan: 86.4%, Season: 82.1%) edit: CJ: 75%

 

[TBpup]

2018-19 playoffs:

PER: CJ 17.9....Dame 20.6
TS%: CJ .527....Dame .566
points/shot: CJ 1.13....Dame 1.30
FT rate: CJ .160....Dame .345
winshares: CJ 1.0....Dame 1.6
winshares/48: CJ .079...Dame .119
off rating: CJ 108....Dame 111
def rating: CJ 115....Dame 113
OBPM: CJ 5.4....Dame 2.4
DBPM: CJ -1.2....Dame -0.6
BPM: CJ 1.2....Dame 4.9
VORP: CJ 0.5....Dame 1.1

that "CJ is always the best player" is bullshit. Check it out if you don't believe it. It's been the Dame/CJ team for 4 playoffs now, and Dame has been better in 3 of 4 playoffs. The only playoffs CJ has been better is the 2017-18 playoffs when the Pelicans doubled, tripled and trapped Dame all over the floor. The one playoffs when CJ was better Portland won 0 games; when Dame was better Portland won 13 games. Pretty clear who has an impact on winning

So Dame was that much better than CJ....WHILE being double teamed for most of the Playoffs. CJ, by comparison, was below Dame in almost every category while benefitting from the rest of the floor being 4-3 because of the attention Dame was getting. Interesting.....very interesting.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

LOL...so, it's gone from "CJ is always the best player in the playoffs" to Dame wasn't good last season, in 2 of 3 playoffs

against OKC:

View attachment 29901


against Denver:

View attachment 29902

(in case you're wondering, CJ averaged 1.12 points/shot in that series, Dame averaged 1.21 points/shot. CJ scored 9 more points on 20 more shots)

against Golden State:

View attachment 29903

the one series last year that CJ supposedly played better, against Denver, there was practically no difference at all, and Dame was arguably more efficient. CJ fans point to game 7 against Denver all the time as if that was some kind of vindication for all slings and arrows CJ suffers. But if CJ was so integral to Portland's playoff chances, and is he was worthy of 31M/year, then CJ would have showed up against the Warriors when they doubled, tripled, hedged and trapped Dame all over the floor....while single-covering CJ and rarely doubling him. I mean, it was the WC finals and CJ needed to help Dame and the team out by picking up the slack from the Warriors Dame-centric defense...but he disappeared. He took 14 more shots than Dame and scored 1 less point

I don't mind people being big fans of CJ, but a lot of the time they seem to come up with arguments that don't withstand much scrutiny.

I have my issues with CJ, not to the extent that you do I think. However, that contract is my big issue which kinda points at Neil... I have no idea why CJ got that big of a contract...

 

[handiman]

LOL...so, it's gone from "CJ is always the best player in the playoffs" to Dame wasn't good last season, in 2 of 3 playoffs

I knew you would object to that, because you love to cherry pick stats. Your numbers show pretty clearly that Dame wasn't nearly as good after the OKC series, which is the same thing that's happened against every other playoff opponent since Houston. Yeah, CJ hit the wall against GS, no argument there. He was just as impactful against Denver as Dame was against OKC, though. So, it's basically a wash. And you're still not addressing all those years prior. You simply latched onto literally the only year where you could even attempt to make a counter-argument.

 

[wizenheimer]

I knew you would object to that, because you love to cherry pick stats. Your numbers show pretty clearly that Dame wasn't nearly as good after the OKC series, which is the same thing that's happened against every other playoff opponent since Houston. Yeah, CJ hit the wall against GS, no argument there. He was just as impactful against Denver as Dame was against OKC, though. So, it's basically a wash. And you're still not addressing all those years prior. You simply latched onto literally the only year where you could even attempt to make a counter-argument.

that's simply not true and I clearly said that in a previous post

2015-16:



2016-17:



2017-18:



2018-19:



Dame definitely had a terrible series against the Pelicans when Holiday, Rondo, Darius Miller and Solomon Hill took turns guarding and doubling Dame every time down the floor while AD and Mirotic hedged him at almost every screen. CJ was single covered for most of the series

but the other 3 seasons, Dame was clearly the better playoff performer

now, it might be a closer call if you want to gauge which player falls off more from their regular season numbers, but there's no debate which Portland guard opponents game-plan their defense for. There's also no doubt which Blazer guard opponents are determined not to let beat them...and which guard opponents believe can't beat them

 

[BonesJones]

2018-19 playoffs:

PER: CJ 17.9....Dame 20.6
TS%: CJ .527....Dame .566
points/shot: CJ 1.13....Dame 1.30
FT rate: CJ .160....Dame .345
winshares: CJ 1.0....Dame 1.6
winshares/48: CJ .079...Dame .119
off rating: CJ 108....Dame 111
def rating: CJ 115....Dame 113
OBPM: CJ 5.4....Dame 2.4
DBPM: CJ -1.2....Dame -0.6
BPM: CJ 1.2....Dame 4.9
VORP: CJ 0.5....Dame 1.1

that "CJ is always the best player" is bullshit. Check it out if you don't believe it. It's been the Dame/CJ team for 4 playoffs now, and Dame has been better in 3 of 4 playoffs. The only playoffs CJ has been better is the 2017-18 playoffs when the Pelicans doubled, tripled and trapped Dame all over the floor. The one playoffs when CJ was better Portland won 0 games; when Dame was better Portland won 13 games. Pretty clear who has an impact on winning

I think you flipped Dame's and CJ's OBPM.

 

[BonesJones]

I knew you would object to that, because you love to cherry pick stats. Your numbers show pretty clearly that Dame wasn't nearly as good after the OKC series, which is the same thing that's happened against every other playoff opponent since Houston. Yeah, CJ hit the wall against GS, no argument there. He was just as impactful against Denver as Dame was against OKC, though. So, it's basically a wash. And you're still not addressing all those years prior. You simply latched onto literally the only year where you could even attempt to make a counter-argument.

That's blatantly false... C.J. was good in the Denver series but he wasn't scoring, defending, or making plays for others at the level Dame was in the OKC series.

And it seems to me like Cup's providing you with a full sample of stats. I don't hate C.J. as much as him and I don't think stats paint as big of a picture as some seem to think, but C.J. definitely has some weaknesses and hasn't shown improvement from his first year starting to now... If anything, he's regressed.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

 

[handiman]

...I don't think stats paint as big of a picture as some seem to think, but C.J. definitely has some weaknesses and hasn't shown improvement from his first year starting to now... If anything, he's regressed.

I've said many times, CJ hasn't been as good since the Chinese shoe deal and/or Nurk's first full season, which seemed to make him the odd man out. I'd love to see him get back to the scoring efficiency gains he showed his first four years in the league.

that's simply not true and I clearly said that in a previous post

2015-16:

View attachment 29904

2016-17:

View attachment 29905

2017-18:

View attachment 29906

2018-19:

View attachment 29907

Dame definitely had a terrible series against the Pelicans when Holiday, Rondo, Darius Miller and Solomon Hill took turns guarding and doubling Dame every time down the floor while AD and Mirotic hedged him at almost every screen. CJ was single covered for most of the series

but the other 3 seasons, Dame was clearly the better playoff performer

now, it might be a closer call if you want to gauge which player falls off more from their regular season numbers, but there's no debate which Portland guard opponents game-plan their defense for. There's also no doubt which Blazer guard opponents are determined not to let beat them...and which guard opponents believe can't beat them

I see Dame having a huge TOV%, which is exactly why he's ineffective in the playoffs. Shooting is only part of the picture. And CJ's USG% climbs to nearly the same as Dame's, showing how much more he has to be relied on than in the regular season. (In other words, as always, your selection of stats fails to grasp context.)

You also left out Memphis ('14-15). That's the series that started the trend of trapping Dame, which he still hasn't figured out. In his recent scoring burst, I think it was late 3rd quarter against Utah, they threw some soft traps at him and he immediately threw a few bad passes, turnovers, missed shots, etc. Utah didn't stick with it and he got back to scoring. It's cause and effect. Teams can't trap CJ as much because he's better able to handle it, resulting in someone being left open. Dame rarely finds the open guy in time. I'd love for him to be able to figure it out, but he's never been a pure PG and that's the glaring hole in his game.