OT What if he was black??

[dviss1]

I recall this being a bleeding heart liberal judge, was he not?

I'd prefer if crime like this had a very narrow sentence range then there isn't a beef.

Please tell me how being liberal or conservative has anything to do with this.... No nevermind don't. That's just your deflection.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

No.

What's insane is the cognitive dissonance in this country.

What is insane is the lack of critical thinking. There are racists of all colors and the sheer number of white people in this country means that a black person is more likely to get screwed over by a white person. SCREWED.

And I hate it. I've told you before that I have encouraged my wife for years to be as fair as humanly possible when it comes to hiring and firing and discipline.

The only time I can recall any obvious unfairness is when her bosses are afraid to be sued by someone for discrimination. In her case only minorities have gotten away with MORE stuff because money is more important.

Legal fees to defend firing someone when you can just give them a warning aren't worth it.

I know for a fact there is a gay guy working for Supercuts that should have been fired 10 times in the last 10 years if everyone was held to the same standard. He's said he'd sue them for all of those years and gets away with anything.

No call no show for three days? Warning.
Faking free haircut cards and keeping the cash? Warning
Freaking out and smashing a mirror on the floor? Warning.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE WAS STRAIGHT?

 

[dviss1]

Yep, this thread has convinced me that we don't need to let judges choose the sentence. They just need to ensure a fair trial and if the jury convicts you they convict you and you get what is already set.

Nope. Hell the fuck no. Mandatory sentencing is the bane of existence. But leave it up to you to advocate for it.

3 strikes law.
Measure 11.

All bullshit laws.

I am in no way advocating we take decisions out of judges hands. Why, so someone can get life in prison for a petty crime?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Please tell me how being liberal or conservative has anything to do with this.... No nevermind don't. That's just your deflection.

Lol

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Nope. Hell the fuck no. Mandatory sentencing is the bane of existence. But leave it up to you to advocate for it.

3 strikes law.
Measure 11.

All bullshit laws.

I am in no way advocating we take decisions out of judges hands. Why, so someone can get life in prison for a petty crime?

Then I guess you have to take your chances.

 

[dviss1]

What is insane is the lack of critical thinking. There are racists of all colors and the sheer number of white people in this country means that a black person is more likely to get screwed over by a white person. SCREWED.

And I hate it. I've told you before that I have encouraged my wife for years to be as fair as humanly possible when it comes to hiring and firing and discipline.

The only time I can recall any obvious unfairness is when her bosses are afraid to be sued by someone for discrimination. In her case only minorities have gotten away with MORE stuff because money is more important.

Legal fees to defend firing someone when you can just give them a warning aren't worth it.

I know for a fact there is a gay guy working for Supercuts that should have been fired 10 times in the last 10 years if everyone was held to the same standard. He's said he'd sue them for all of those years and gets away with anything.

No call no show for three days? Warning.
Faking free haircut cards and keeping the cash? Warning
Freaking out and smashing a mirror on the floor? Warning.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE WAS STRAIGHT?

No. There aren't. There are people who are prejudiced. There are people who are biased. But to be racist you must have a system of oppression. I can't deny you housing...

Prejudice + Power = Racism.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

No. There aren't. There are people who are prejudiced. There are people who are biased. But to be racist you must have a system of oppression. I can't deny you housing...

Prejudice + Power = Racism.

Black people don't own houses to rent and don't work as mortgage brokers in this country?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

No. There aren't. There are people who are prejudiced. There are people who are biased. But to be racist you must have a system of oppression. I can't deny you housing...

Prejudice + Power = Racism.

I almost didn't get to vote for Trump because a black woman couldn't find my name. Thank God an old white guy found it in five seconds. I was about to accuse her of racism

 

[dviss1]

Then I guess you have to take your chances.

Mandatory minimum sentences are unconstitutional.

The debate over the constitutionality of mandatory minimums has been on-going. Last year the Maryland Senate unanimously approved a landmark criminal justice bill [JURIST report], known as the Justice Reinvestment Act, which would significantly change how non-violent drug offenders are sentenced, shifting focus from prison to treatment. The changes in the sentencing structure would allow the state to save money on prison costs and allow those serving mandatory minimums to appeal their sentences. In 2015 the US Senate voted to move forward on the Sentencing Reform and Corrections Act of 2015 [JURIST report] , which would cut back on mandatory minimums for nonviolent drug offenders. Several police chiefs were concerned about reducing sentences, including Chief Will Johnson of Arlington, Texas, who noted that the government has been hesitant to assist with drug and mental health treatments as alternatives to incarceration. Following the introduction of the bill, US President Barack Obama argued for overhauling the nation's sentencing laws in front of top law enforcement officials at the 122nd Annual International Association of Chiefs of Police Conference and Exposition. The president argued that placing large numbers of nonviolent drug offenders in prison was neither fair nor an effective way of combating crime, stating that "it is possible for us to come up with strategies that effectively reduce the damage of the drug trade without relying solely on incarceration."

 

[dviss1]

It's weird how you admit that you wouldn't trade our treatment for yours but then you go and deny that anything happens to us in the same breath.

Fucking weird shit...

 

[Cippy91]

It's funny how the same USUAL suspects come in here and don't even attempt to answer the question. They just get defensive about their whiteness and go into their usual bullshit enclave of security. Unable to step outside of their own thinking.

Same people all the time. It's never anyone different.

Usual suspects of what exactly? You made the thread, people are replying. So because some don’t agree with you it means we are getting in defense of our whiteness? Hmmm okay? That’s not it really. You cherry picked one case out of how many that happen every day? You did it to support this whole narrative of if the person was black, it would be murder or some harsh senstence. Bodyman and I are here to say no dviss, how would you know how it would be if he was black? You don’t know. You’re just guessing and quite honestly I don’t know how threads like yours still exist since thy happen to be the most divisive and racially charged posts on the forum.

 

[Cippy91]

I almost didn't get to vote for Trump because a black woman couldn't find my name. Thank God an old white guy found it in five seconds. I was about to accuse her of racism

I wonder how dviss would react to that flint documentary where half the police force is black. The chief is. The mayor is. I wonder how he would react to black police officers arresting black people on the streets of flint because they committed a crime. Would he still call it racist? Or would they just be uncle toms to him?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

It's weird how you admit that you wouldn't trade our treatment for yours but then you go and deny that anything happens to us in the same breath.

Fucking weird shit...

I know it. You deny that black people can be racist because of power. So a black person in Nevada can't be but then a black person in Atlanta could be?

 

[MARIS61]

Affluenza..... What THE ACTUAL FUCK....

Ethan Couch, ‘Affluenza Teen’ Who Killed 4 While Driving Drunk, Is Freed

Ethan Couch, whose trial for killing four people while driving drunk sparked widespread conversations about the privilege of being raised wealthy, was released from a Texas jail on Monday after nearly two years.

Mr. Couch, 20, became known as the “affluenza teen” after a psychologist suggested during his trial that growing up with money might have left him with psychological afflictions, too rich to tell right from wrong. He attracted further attention when he and his mother, Tonya Couch, fled to Mexico in an effort to evade possible jail time.

He served his 720-day sentence in a jail in Tarrant County, and was freed about a week before his 21st birthday.

Ms. Couch, 50, had been freed on bond while awaiting trial on a felony charge of hindering apprehension. But she was arrested last week after the authorities said she failed a drug test, violating the conditions of her bond, according to The Dallas Morning News.

Mr. Couch was 16 in June 2013 when he and a group of friends stole beer from a store and had a party at his parents’ house before going for a drive. He struck and killed four people on the side of a road near Burleson, Tex., a Fort Worth suburb, and a passenger in his car was paralyzed and suffered brain damage.

He had a blood alcohol level of 0.24, three times the legal limit in Texas, hours after the crash.

He pleaded guilty in 2013 to four counts of manslaughter and a juvenile court judge sentenced him to 10 years of probation, defying prosecutors who sought a 20-year prison sentence. The victims’ families were outraged, and critics felt he got special treatment because of his wealth.

In December 2015, a six-second video that appeared to show Mr. Couch at a party where alcohol was served — a possible parole violation — was posted on Twitter. Two weeks later, he and his mother went missing.

They were arrested about two weeks later, about 1,200 miles away in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, where they had changed their appearances and ditched their identifications. Mr. Couch was brought back to Texas and placed in juvenile detention, while his case was moved to adult court.

In April 2016, Dee Anderson, Tarrant County’s sheriff, said Mr. Couch had created “zero issues” since beginning his jail stint that January.

“I do believe Ethan Couch is not the same person he was when he came to jail,” he said. “The time he’s spent, it’s a rude awakening for anyone.”

Under the terms of his probation, Mr. Couch will not be permitted to drive or drink alcohol, and cannot leave the Fort Worth area without approval from probation or court officials. He must look for a job and perform community service.

In a statement, Mothers Against Drunk Driving said it was “small consolation” that Mr. Couch would remain on probation.

“Two years in jail for four people killed is a grave injustice to the victims and their families who have been dealt life sentences because of one person’s devastating decision to drink and drive,” the organization said. “The 720 days Ethan Couch served for his crimes shows that drunk driving homicides still aren’t treated as the violent crimes that they are.”

You mean black and rich, don't you?

Same sentence.

Because skin complexion was not a factor in his slap on the wrist.

His wealth was the only factor.

Money talks for whomever holds it.

 

[MARIS61]

OJ Had money. They still took it all and put him in prison for taking his own possessions back. I

Bottom line Dave Chappelle was right. It's only funny because it's true. Denying it really just helps sweep the problem under the rug. :

OJ?

Wife-beating, slash murdering OJ?

Who skated on an obvious double murder solely because he was rich?

Not making much of a case there.

 

[MARIS61]

Smoking is very strongly correlated with lung cancer. But some people who never smoked get lung cancer. If dviss were to say smoking causes lung cancer, bodyman would google and find every person on earth who did not smoke but got lung cancer and say see, people who don't smoke get lung cancer so what are you beefing about?

Most people who smoke don't get lung cancer.

 

[Further]

See, I responded to dviss that the light sentence could be due to either race, wealth or both and he didn’t have a problem with that assessment. We can’t know that in this exact case it was racism, but we can look at the propensity for tougher sentences with Black people (especially young men) vs White people and discuss the tendency, we can discuss how money influences too. But to immediately throw out a more rare example to show that it’s not race related is disingenuous.

 

[MARIS61]

Nope. Hell the fuck no. Mandatory sentencing is the bane of existence. But leave it up to you to advocate for it.

3 strikes law.
Measure 11.

All bullshit laws.

I am in no way advocating we take decisions out of judges hands. Why, so someone can get life in prison for a petty crime?

There are no petty crimes.

Just petty criminals.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

See, I responded to dviss that the light sentence could be due to either race, wealth or both and he didn’t have a problem with that assessment. We can’t know that in this exact case it was racism, but we can look at the propensity for tougher sentences with Black people (especially young men) vs White people and discuss the tendency, we can discuss how money influences too. But to immediately throw out a more rare example to show that it’s not race related is disingenuous.

You don't know what it was but to provide examples of black people getting lucky breaks is disingenuous? Ok

 

[Further]

You don't know what it was but to provide examples of black people getting lucky breaks is disingenuous? Ok

Well to provide that without any acknowledgment that it could be racism is disingenuous. I know you are well aware with two things. 1) the numbers point to institutional racism and 2) it’s very easy to cherry pick examples.

I realize you are trying to point out that @dviss1 is cherry picking and who knows about any one example. But when you look at the bulk of situations like this we can see prejudice. So, perhaps @dviss1 isnt cherry picking but instead holding up an example of what the numbers show.

But either way, dviss isn’t unwilling to hold a conversation so why not simply state your concerns instead of the way you did it?

“Hey dviss, I’m not sure if this is racism or wealth related. Rich fuckers often get to buy their freedom.”
Then maybe the two of you could have a discussion over the matter instead of both going to your corners and coming out fighting.

 

[Cippy91]

See, I responded to dviss that the light sentence could be due to either race, wealth or both and he didn’t have a problem with that assessment. We can’t know that in this exact case it was racism, but we can look at the propensity for tougher sentences with Black people (especially young men) vs White people and discuss the tendency, we can discuss how money influences too. But to immediately throw out a more rare example to show that it’s not race related is disingenuous.

Doing that, you would have to dive deep into cultures and the communities. There are a lot of factors when it comes to the actual sentencing. I am positive there have been cases where there were racists involved but to chalk it up these days as some race thing, is pretty dismissive of the statistics and facts. A lot of poor communities of all colors tend to commit more crime and be in and out of the system. The problem is these numbers are much higher within the black community. There is a lot of inner city violence. Saying that isn't racist, it's just a fact. If you don't believe me you can watch a few documentaries. Flint Town on Netflix, Louis theroux did a documentary on the inner cities of milwaukee wisconsin, all the way to the interrupters and that being about Chicago violence. I think what we have been seeing is people passing this off as some sort of systemic racist system just because there are a lot of blacks in prison but people refuse to look at why they are in prison. People act like they just get thrown in the system for nothing, literally like they were plucked off the street for doing nothing and thrown in. That's not the case at all. Most certainly as I have said race has played a part in it unfairly but I think for the most part across the board, this is a deeper issue people refuse to acknowledge. A lot of violence in inner cities people ignore with daily retaliations that occur. I think America needs to find a way to deal with that situation because I hate seeing young people getting killed for no reason and that's what is happening, also people getting shot by stray bullets in these neighborhoods. It's dangerous. Louis theroux has also done a documentary done in Philly.

 

[Further]

You don't know what it was but to provide examples of black people getting lucky breaks is disingenuous? Ok

Let me ask you a simple yes or no question. Do you think it is likely that if a rich black kid was in the same situation the result would have been the same?

 

[Cippy91]

Well to provide that without any acknowledgment that it could be racism is disingenuous. I know you are well aware with two things. 1) the numbers point to institutional racism and 2) it’s very easy to cherry pick examples.

I realize you are trying to point out that @dviss1 is cherry picking and who knows about any one example. But when you look at the bulk of situations like this we can see prejudice. So, perhaps @dviss1 isnt cherry picking but instead holding up an example of what the numbers show.

But either way, dviss isn’t unwilling to hold a conversation so why not simply state your concerns instead of the way you did it?

“Hey dviss, I’m not sure if this is racism or wealth related. Rich fuckers often get to buy their freedom.”
Then maybe the two of you could have a discussion over the matter instead of both going to your corners and coming out fighting.

This was a dviss quote

"It's funny how the same USUAL suspects come in here and don't even attempt to answer the question. They just get defensive about their whiteness and go into their usual bullshit enclave of security. Unable to step outside of their own thinking.

Same people all the time. It's never anyone different."

uhhhh usual suspects of what? defending whiteness? what is he even talking about here? always claims we are unable to step outside our own thinking when in reality he is the one that never wants to step outside of his own thinking and see the other point of view. Defend whiteness from what? that was the most confusing comment. We are replying to his thread and disagree with him, just because of that it means we are defending whiteness. That's why trying to hold a conversation with Dviss is so damn difficult.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Well to provide that without any acknowledgment that it could be racism is disingenuous. I know you are well aware with two things. 1) the numbers point to institutional racism and 2) it’s very easy to cherry pick examples.

I realize you are trying to point out that @dviss1 is cherry picking and who knows about any one example. But when you look at the bulk of situations like this we can see prejudice. So, perhaps @dviss1 isnt cherry picking but instead holding up an example of what the numbers show.

But either way, dviss isn’t unwilling to hold a conversation so why not simply state your concerns instead of the way you did it?

“Hey dviss, I’m not sure if this is racism or wealth related. Rich fuckers often get to buy their freedom.”
Then maybe the two of you could have a discussion over the matter instead of both going to your corners and coming out fighting.

I've already acknowledged white privilege a million times. I know it is real and he knows I know it. Why don't we have a brutally honest discussion about race and stereotypes? There are some white people stereotypes I'll acknowledge that are very maddening.

 

[Cippy91]

Let me ask you a simple yes or no question. Do you think it is likely that if a rich black kid was in the same situation the result would have been the same?

We could play the different scenario game all day. Would it be the same? who knows. Maybe? maybe not? do you know? do you wanna sit here and go through another 5 pages arguing over a scenario that isn't even happening? I don't see anything productive here, just another divisive ass thread that nobody will call out except for a couple people

 

[Further]

I've already acknowledged white privilege a million times. I know it is real and he knows I know it. Why don't we have a brutally honest discussion about race and stereotypes? There are some white people stereotypes I'll acknowledge that are very maddening.

So if you know it exists, why do you jump into the thread with the counter/example. If you want to have a deeper philosophical discussion then perhaps starting it off in an antaginizing way might not be productive.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

So if you know it exists, why do you jump into the thread with the counter/example. If you want to have a deeper philosophical discussion then perhaps starting it off in an antaginizing way might not be productive.

I'm not trying to be antagonizing. This one dumb kid isn't a good example of the racism in this country. Dviss started the thread with the title that assumes it is fact that it was because he was white.

 

[Further]

I'm not trying to be antagonizing. This one dumb kid isn't a good example of the racism in this country. Dviss started the thread with the title that assumes it is fact that it was because he was white.

Well somehow you, dviss, me, and everyone else in this country who isn’t racist has to figure out how to have honest discussions. That might mean @dviss1 start a thread like this with a less accusatory title like “would there have been a similar outcome if the perp was black?” Or perhaps it might mean you and others look at a thread like this and try to wade into a deep yet civilized discussion on the matter.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Well somehow you, dviss, me, and everyone else in this country who isn’t racist has to figure out how to have honest discussions. That might mean @dviss1 start a thread like this with a less accusatory title like “would there have been a similar outcome if the perp was black?” Or perhaps it might mean you and others look at a thread like this and try to wade into a deep yet civilized discussion on the matter.

First reply....

dviss, do you need to ask? He'd have been shot.
White and poor, gone to prison first off.

 

[Further]

First reply....

By crandc- quickly followed by the rest.

If you disagree, then byball means continue. But you at times want to be combative and other times want a deep discussion.

I honestly like your posting and read almost all of them. Not meaning I agree with them, but I can see a person behind the posts that I like. Same with dviss.

You know very well I can be an ass-hat on this board too, so this is aimed at me too. If we want the same conversations every time then we can act the same as we always do. If we want to elevate the discussion then multiple people are going to have to choose to elevate their posting. I’m included.