What if I told you that no man will go to hell?

[SlyPokerDog]

Eternal torment pretty much sizes it up. Not a place one would want to end up. nuf said, basically.

Matt 25:46

46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
(from New International Version)

It's punishment, not torment. Torment/torture is more from Dante's Inferno. Punishment could just be not going to heaven.

 

[ABM]

It's punishment, not torment. Torment/torture is more from Dante's Inferno. Punishment could just be not going to heaven.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:15

That would suck....big time.

 

[ABM]

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:15

That would suck....big time.

Regardless, though, I'll be hangin' with Jesus. Moreover, the Bible has made clear that apart from Him ain't gonna be a good place to be.

 

[MARIS61]

Regardless, though, I'll be hangin' with Jesus. Moreover, the Bible has made clear that apart from Him ain't gonna be a good place to be.

Ever wonder about the obvious homosexual implications the whole "worship Jesus never leave his side"
mantra conjures up?

Hanging around with an unattached, possibly virgin, young adult male for eternity sounds more like hell than heaven to me.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[ABM]

Ever wonder about the obvious homosexual implications the whole "worship Jesus never leave his side"
mantra conjures up?

Hanging around with an unattached, possibly virgin, young adult male for eternity sounds more like hell than heaven to me.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

K

..

 

[MARIS61]

Muslim heaven seems more inviting at face value.

 

[ABM]

Muslim heaven seems more inviting at face value.

There are all-too-many neat stories in this world we live in.

 

[MARIS61]

"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone..."

Atheists live each moment of their mortal lives in heaven, while many religious folk are so focused on the promise of an afterlife they don't notice they were born into heaven until they leave it.

 

[ABM]

"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone..."

Atheists live each moment of their mortal lives in heaven, while many religious folk are so focused on the promise of an afterlife they don't notice they were born into heaven until they leave it.

Jesus mentions giving Christians an "abundant life" here on earth. I sure know I'm living one. Not too sure 'bout them so-called "religious folk", though.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I know I will be called a blasphemer, but I truly believe that no man or woman will go to hell after Jesus died. Also, I think when Jesus went to hell, he brought back all souls that were there.

So now, do your best to shoot my theory down.

There was a This American Life story about a preacher who thought the same thing. Very very interesting story he had.

 

[crowTrobot]

There are all-too-many neat stories in this world we live in.

not really much difference in wishful thinking content between your version of heaven and a Muslim's, or Valhalla, or whatever.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

If you break gods rules he will send you to a fiery pit of torture and pain, where demons will rip the flesh from your bones and the evil gorgoth behosephet will festoon your entrails on a roast spit for all of her sadistic minions to feast upon for all eternity

But he loves you

 

[3RA1N1AC]

If god is all powerful, why doesn't he just destroy Satan?

 

[magnifier661]

If you break gods rules he will send you to a fiery pit of torture and pain, where demons will rip the flesh from your bones and the evil gorgoth behosephet will festoon your entrails on a roast spit for all of her sadistic minions to feast upon for all eternity

But loves you

That's weird..... When you die, you are of spirit. I don't see how demons can rip your flesh from your bones.


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[magnifier661]

If god is all powerful, why doesn't he just destroy Satan?

The universe must have balance. For all negative energy, you must have positive. Destroying satan will not solve anything, because there needs to be balance.


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[crowTrobot]

Do you remember when the thief on the cross just told Jesus to remember him? Then Jesus said you will be with me in heaven?

Do you remember when Jesus went into hell to cast sin out, then brought up those that were there to heaven?

I believe that Jesus became the final sacrifice and any person has the right to be in heaven. The salvation or "presentation and acceptance of grace" allows us to live on this planet without the burden of death.

so everyone is going to heaven no matter what they do or believe in this life? obviously there's no way to get that from the bible. The bible is explicitly clear that not everyone is going to be saved.

I truly believe the arguments of atheist, saying how sadistic god is; is a wrong interpretation.

You mean it's a correct argument based on a wrong interpretation of the bible made by Christians. Atheists are just parsing the standard Christian interpretation as sadistic (if it were true), using their own personally derived concepts of what is and isn't moral ----> which is exactly what you are doing when you decide the standard Christian interpretation has to be wrong.

In your own way you are actually using the same reasoning and making the same argument as atheists do - saying the plan of salvation as described in the bible is, taken at face value, immoral. The only difference is atheists don't feel the need to rewrite the bible as you are doing to rationalize and justify your dogmatic belief in Christianity.

 

[magnifier661]

so everyone is going to heaven no matter what they do or believe in this life? obviously there's no way to get that from the bible. The bible is explicitly clear that not everyone is going to be saved.



You mean it's a correct argument based on a wrong interpretation of the bible made by Christians. Atheists are just parsing the standard Christian interpretation as sadistic (if it were true), using their own personally derived concepts of what is and isn't moral ----> which is exactly what you are doing when you decide the standard Christian interpretation has to be wrong.

In your own way you are actually using the same reasoning and making the same argument as atheists do - saying the plan of salvation as described in the bible is, taken at face value, immoral. The only difference is atheists don't feel the need to rewrite the bible as you are doing to rationalize and justify your dogmatic belief in Christianity.

You and I are in a disagreement. I believe atheism is a dogmatic belief that outs their faith on two concepts they cannot prove. They can't even replicate or observe. The atheist is no better than the faith driven Christian.

Why do atheist want to disprove Jesus existed? Because if you cut the head off that belief, you break down the entire concept of God. The fortunate thing is, no matter how hard the atheist tries, they cannot disprove Jesus existing, which completely destroys their argument.

So you have your faith and I have mine. And like many in atheism, there are different ideas of their faith.

So even though you or I won't go to hell, I don't live my life in fear of death. The grace of eternal peace is my freedom, and I don't have to wait till after death to know the truth.


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[TripTango]

For the night is dark, and full of terrors...

 

[magnifier661]

For the night is dark, and full of terrors...

See you in heaven brother!

 

[crowTrobot]

You and I are in a disagreement. I believe atheism is a dogmatic belief that outs their faith on two concepts they cannot prove. They can't even replicate or observe. The atheist is no better than the faith driven Christian.

I don't pretend to know anything about the origins of life or the universe so not sure who you are talking to here, but you missed the point of my post. The bible is the entire basis for Christianity. It's intellectually dishonest to just think you can rewrite the bible wherever it disagrees with what you think SHOULD be the case based on your own personally derived moral sensibilities. That's exactly what you are doing in this thread.

Why do atheist want to disprove Jesus existed?

the large majority of atheists including myself think it's at least probable that a man Jesus existed who inspired the gospel legends, so again not sure who you are talking to here.

So even though you or I won't go to hell, I don't live my life in fear of death. The grace of eternal peace is my freedom, and I don't have to wait till after death to know the truth.

I don't fear death at all. The only thing I fear is wasting my life believing in fairy tales when reality has so much more to offer.

 

[magnifier661]

I don't pretend to know anything about the origins of life or the universe so not sure who you are talking to here, but you missed the point of my post. The bible is the entire basis for Christianity. It's intellectually dishonest to just think you can rewrite the bible wherever it disagrees with what you think SHOULD be the case based on your own personally derived moral sensibilities. That's exactly what you are doing in this thread.

Actually you do. If you believe there is no God; then you believe that all of life originated from chance. And since you believe that; then you have faith that chance is the only logical way. But the problem with that is there are no observable empirical evidence to support this claim; therefor you live by faith. Welcome to our world.

the large majority of atheists including myself think it's at least probable that a man Jesus existed who inspired the gospel legends, so again not sure who you are talking to here.

Link?

I don't fear death at all. The only thing I fear is wasting my life believing in fairy tales when reality has so much more to offer.

I'm sure you're young. Lets have this conversation after you turn 50.

 

[crowTrobot]

Actually you do. If you believe there is no God; then you believe that all of life originated from chance. And since you believe that; then you have faith that chance is the only logical way. But the problem with that is there are no observable empirical evidence to support this claim; therefor you live by faith. Welcome to our world.

you're not talking about me here.

I don't believe there is no god. I believe all gods of human tradition are extremely improbable, but some sort of generic intelligence underlying the universe would not surprise me.

If anything I would guess there is no "chance" involved at all and life is inevitable in some sense, mechanical or otherwise. you know all this.

Link?

there was just a long thread on this here. dogmatic Jesus deniers aren't really all that common.

I'm sure you're young. Lets have this conversation after you turn 50.

I am exactly 50.

your statement was irrelevant anyway, as I'm not even capable of the intellectual dishonesty of using avoiding fear of death to justify belief in an afterlife as you are doing (version of Pascal's Wager).

 

[magnifier661]

you're not talking about me here.

I don't believe there is no god. I believe all gods of human tradition are extremely improbable, but some sort of generic intelligence underlying the universe would not surprise me.

If anything I would guess there is no "chance" involved at all and life is inevitable in some sense, mechanical or otherwise. you know all this.





there was just a long thread on this here. dogmatic Jesus deniers aren't really all that common.



I am exactly 50.

your statement was irrelevant anyway, as I'm not even capable of the intellectual dishonesty of using avoiding fear of death to justify belief in an afterlife as you are doing (version of Pascal's Wager).

Then you aren't atheist.

 

[crowTrobot]

Then you aren't atheist.

my point has nothing to do with your definition of atheist. lots of people representing a variety of beliefs and non-belief including many theists conclude as you apparently have that the standard biblical Christian plan of salvation doesn't fit with modern moral sensibilities. I'm just saying it's intellectually dishonest to pick and choose what you think is and isn't true in the bible using modern morality. How can you reject the words of Jesus (or the accuracy of the bible in its most critical of messages) for ANY reason and still think Jesus was/is god? Aren't you just making up your own religion in this thread?

 

[magnifier661]

my point has nothing to do with your definition of atheist. lots of people representing a variety of beliefs and non-belief including many theists conclude as you apparently have that the standard biblical Christian plan of salvation doesn't fit with modern moral sensibilities. I'm just saying it's intellectually dishonest to pick and choose what you think is and isn't true in the bible using modern morality. How can you reject the words of Jesus (or the accuracy of the bible in its most critical of messages) for ANY reason and still think Jesus was/is god? Aren't you just making up your own religion in this thread?

That's funny; you are picking and choosing from your belief. But since it's your own; I guess you get a pass huh?