What if we trade nobody?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
MickZagger said:
A true rebuild you’d want to collect as many picks as possible. It opens doors to be very flexible in future trades and allows to find good players in the draft, if they do their homework. Presti and Ainge have been successful at this.

However, with the drafting of Kris Murray in the first round I’m not so sure I completely trust our front office to knock it out of the park in the draft. He has zero upside and is most likely on his last NBA contract
Click to expand...
I still like Kris. I think he's shown flashes of what he will be and he's had a slower learning curve than his brother at every level but eventually got there. I'm not saying Kris will be our starting 4 or 3 when we are hopefully winning playoff series down the road, but I think he's got a lot to build on once he gets comfortable and more confident. I think he'll be a really good player to have coming off of the bench in the future.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Sure, if by marginal you mean even. As long as we're getting an equivalent player at a different position or equivalent value.

All depends on your definition of good and marginal. I've been very clear about what I think we should be looking to trade Brogdon for.

He should probably be traded if we can get fair value at another position or fair draft compensation. My position is very simple. I don't know what other teams are willing to part with and I'm not interested in guessing who that might be.

It doesn't matter how you rephrase or re-state it. My position is not critical of the team.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. What is the preferred position? SF, PF or Center?

I could see a Center, as we don't have allot of those in the backlog for development. But I see a few SF's and PFs that have potential we already have we need to evaluate. So I just don't see trading Brogdon, losing his (my opinion) valued veteran ship for yet another SF or PF, when we have so many needing grooming. And really, we also have Badji and Reath who could develop into solid backup centers. Heck. Reath is pretty much already there.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yep. My posts specifically said for equivalent or better value. I have repeatedly specifically said "not a fire sale". But bringing Brogdon back next season would be a slight checkmark in the negative column for me, especially if he keeps playing big minutes at PG.

The concern is that he has been so injury prone that the longer we keep him the less likely we are to get much value. Also, as Scoot improves the need to trade Brogdon will become more apparent and that will also hurt his value.

With Brogdon, it's kind of a cash in while you can moment, IMO. The best value you can get now is likely to be the best value we'll ever be able to get from him.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

I think the part we disagree on is his value now is the best it will get. With the new rules in place with regards to cap spending and all that, this off-season will be the best time his value is at his highest, ofcourse unless he gets hurt from now till the offseason.

Teams that want to add Brogdon to their team to get over the hump, if they take him before this trade deadline, will have to account to matching his salary this season and then he is also on the books for them next season too.
Where as if they trade for Brodgon in this offseason, they can match his salary going out in the offseason and he is basically on their payroll for a one year rent. If he gets hurt next season or it doesn’t pan out for whatever team he goes too they can just take him off those books the following offseason.

So I think his value might be higher in this offseason personally.
 
RR7 said:
I appreciate the vet leadership that Brogdon brings to the team, and brings to Scoot. I also think if we have two and a half months of it not here, with a deadline trade, we can replace it next season. Brogdon isn't the only veteran in the league. And who knows, one could be acquired in a trade for Brogdon along with a draft pick. Scoot has been working a lot with Pooh Jeter, who himself was an NBA vet. He's not going to go without. I think a mid 1st is fair value, and I would prefer fair value over a need to wait for an overpay. I'm not gonna melt down, but will be annoyed if we hang on to everyone, when this should be an asset acquisition and building season.
Multiple picks will go further, IMO, in turning our team around than one vet for a few months will.
Click to expand...

Are all vets that way though? Some selfish players in the league.

Id prefer to keep the steak in the mouth vs drop it in the water of hopes of a larger steak in the reflection, when that's a crapshoot.

I think with the multiple pics we already have in our pocket for the next 6 years, one more middle first is not enough of a difference maker for the value of his admitted dedication to helping Scoot.
 
sheed30 said:
Fair enough.

I think the part we disagree on is his value now is the best it will get. With the new rules in place with regards to cap spending and all that, this off-season will be the best time his value is at his highest, ofcourse unless he gets hurt from now till the offseason.

Teams that want to add Brogdon to their team to get over the hump, if they take him before this trade deadline, will have to account to matching his salary this season and then he is also on the books for them next season too.
Where as if they trade for Brodgon in this offseason, they can match his salary going out in the offseason and he is basically on their payroll for a one year rent. If he gets hurt next season or it doesn’t pan out for whatever team he goes too they can just take him off those books the following offseason.

So I think his value might be higher in this offseason personally.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think we can get more for him in the offseason or early next season. People say he is injury prone, but I think the specifics of the injuries somewhat counter that. Given a full year to prove he is healthy I think is also a value that counters the decreased time of his contract. And he can always resign and if traded to a contender and he puts them over the top, likely will resign to keep on winning.
 
Hey SharpeScoot -- in my post to you want to make something clear i came off a tad more hostile towards you then I ment -- i just wanted an opinion over an emoji

I am not a fan of Cronin and sounds like you are but were both entitled to our opinions hope no hard feelings just wanted to clear the air with ya
 
Brogdon played in 75 games his rookie year. Since then, the most he ever played in was 67. He's injury prone. No, it's not one chronic thing like Williams' knee, but the man is injured EVERY year. If that's not prone to injury, I don' know what is.

As for value of now versus offseason...If a team is contending and trades for him now, they get him for 2 playoff runs. If they trade for him in the offseason, they only get him for one. Any team giving up a pick would prefer more than one go at the playoffs with whoever they are acquiring.

In the offseason, it is easier for a team to talk themselves in to the free agent acquisition they an get for cheaper, without giving up a pick, or a draft pick, if circumstances have changed, and they no longer think they can contend, or are just one piece away.

I definitely think his price will never be higher than it is right now.
 
[QUOTE="sheed30, post: 5636555, member: 21303"

So I think his value might be higher in this offseason personally.[/QUOTE]

That is a fair argument. I think one could argue either way. The bottom line is I don't think his value is at its peak this week because no one is desperate enough to overpay to get him. Having said that it would be wise for a veteran team to make the Blazers an offer, but my guess is they are waiting until the deadline to see if they can get him cheap.

My guess is the Knicks will trade for him at the deadline for Fornier and a 1st. The Blazers would save 4 million with the trade.
It sounds like the Knicks prefer Brown instead, but I just don't see Ujiri doing it.
 
Ripcity4life77 said:
Hey SharpeScoot -- in my post to you want to make something clear i came off a tad more hostile towards you then I ment -- i just wanted an opinion over an emoji

I am not a fan of Cronin and sounds like you are but were both entitled to our opinions hope no hard feelings just wanted to clear the air with ya
Click to expand...

Fair enough. All good.:cheers:

Hey something that might help you out here, I almost missed this post because you didn't quote or tag me. Not sure what device you use to log in here, but in the bottom right of each post there is a +quote. If you click on that on the post you want to respond to, and then click on add post in the bottom left of where you are typing, it will include the post you are responding to. Just like this reads here. Might help you out in the communication department here. :)
 
RR7 said:
Brogdon played in 75 games his rookie year. Since then, the most he ever played in was 67. He's injury prone. No, it's not one chronic thing like Williams' knee, but the man is injured EVERY year. If that's not prone to injury, I don' know what is.

As for value of now versus offseason...If a team is contending and trades for him now, they get him for 2 playoff runs. If they trade for him in the offseason, they only get him for one. Any team giving up a pick would prefer more than one go at the playoffs with whoever they are acquiring.

In the offseason, it is easier for a team to talk themselves in to the free agent acquisition they an get for cheaper, without giving up a pick, or a draft pick, if circumstances have changed, and they no longer think they can contend, or are just one piece away.

I definitely think his price will never be higher than it is right now.
Click to expand...

Fair points. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but its logical.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RR7
SharpeScooterShooter said:
I agree. I think we can get more for him in the offseason or early next season. People say he is injury prone, but I think the specifics of the injuries somewhat counter that. Given a full year to prove he is healthy I think is also a value that counters the decreased time of his contract. And he can always resign and if traded to a contender and he puts them over the top, likely will resign to keep on winning.
Click to expand...
I would prefer the off-season to early next season for this reason.

This is a learning curve year for Scoot, and he is improving each week so far. I’m fine with him not starting for now but next season when the season starts he should be starting from the get go and that could hurt Brodgon value so to speak, less mins and etc.

Dont underestimate the vet presence from Brodgon though if he stays with us the whole season.

Lillard learned a lot from Watson and Mo Williams in his first two seasons. Same could be here for Scoot and other rookies
 
sheed30 said:
Lillard learned a lot from Watson and Mo Williams in his first two seasons. Same could be here for Scoot and other rookies
Click to expand...
Yes, but neither Williams nor Watson came close to the PT that Dame had, while now there have been multiple instances of Brogdon playing nearly double the minutes that Scoot did. He has also supplanted Scoot in the starting lineup and is the coach's admitted choice for finisher in games.

I am all for going after vet min end of bench guys that can mentor Scoot. But if we have a guy like Malcolm (who apparently has value around the league) blocking Scoot's time on the floor, this really is a simple decision
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
Fair enough. What is the preferred position? SF, PF or Center?

I could see a Center, as we don't have allot of those in the backlog for development. But I see a few SF's and PFs that have potential we already have we need to evaluate. So I just don't see trading Brogdon, losing his (my opinion) valued veteran ship for yet another SF or PF, when we have so many needing grooming. And really, we also have Badji and Reath who could develop into solid backup centers. Heck. Reath is pretty much already there.
Click to expand...
Any of the 3 positions. We're overloaded at PG. It's counterproductive to have him here.
 
Everything Beagle said:
I think that comparison is unfair; Dame was 23, and had already had his come to jesus moment in college.
Click to expand...
And look what Dame did for Ant, who racked up dnps his first season and look at Ant now.
People are trying to rush the 19 yr old and it’s not nearly as simple as some claim.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It's not just point guard. We're overloaded at GUARD.

Where will Shaedon get 30 minutes?
Click to expand...

Natebishop3 said:
Let's once again look at our guards

Simons
Brogdon
Scoot
Sharpe
Thybulle

Let's say we move Thybulle or Sharpe to small forward.

Now where do you play Camara? Grant has been starting with Walker.

We need to move someone.
Click to expand...

I’ve never said we don’t have to move someone. I’ve been consistent in saying I don’t think we have to move him now. I’ve been consistent in saying we can move him anytime in the next year. I’ve been consistent in saying the value we get in moving him now for a middle first is not, to me, as valuable as him mentoring our VERY young guards of the future.

People say anyone can be a mentor and that’s false. First, we would need that mentor to be a guard so then we need a guard in return if we trade our only vet guard. How is pf or center going to explain the ins and outs of the pg position to the youngsters?
Second, that player has to be okay with being a mentor and not play. Not easy to find. Players want to play. Third, we have a publicly admitted willing vet mentor already.


Plus, injuries happen. I’m fine with scoot and Shae getting 22-25 minutes a game the rest of the season if it means they are learning from the vets. People be acting like the kids are 23-24 yrs old and had years of college experience or something.

it is not as big of a deal as some of you make it out to be and consistently post how upset you will be if we don’t make moves right now.

all I do know is the meltdown thread is obviously gonna be consistently at the top of the page with the amount of continual moaning that has already been displayed.

The sky isn’t gonna fall if we don’t trade Brogdon now.
Some repeatedly say they will be pissed. I’ll continue to hold their hand to the meltdown thread until they realize it isn’t the end of the world.

Someone needs to bump the meltdown thread. It’s already needed for some it seems.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Let's once again look at our guards

Simons
Brogdon
Scoot
Sharpe
Thybulle

Let's say we move Thybulle or Sharpe to small forward.

Now where do you play Camara? Grant has been starting with Walker.

We need to move someone.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that if we're going to go 26-7 the rest of the way like @KingSpeed suggested, we're going to need a better PF than Walker alongside Grant (at SF).

Would this be crazy?

Screenshot_20240203_163320_Chrome.jpg
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
I’ve never said we don’t have to move someone. I’ve been consistent in saying I don’t think we have to move him now. I’ve been consistent in saying we can move him anytime in the next year. I’ve been consistent in saying the value we get in moving him now for a middle first is not, to me, as valuable as him mentoring our VERY young guards of the future.

People say anyone can be a mentor and that’s false. First, we would need that mentor to be a guard so then we need a guard in return if we trade our only vet guard. How is pf or center going to explain the ins and outs of the pg position to the youngsters?
Second, that player has to be okay with being a mentor and not play. Not easy to find. Players want to play. Third, we have a publicly admitted willing vet mentor already.


Plus, injuries happen. I’m fine with scoot and Shae getting 22-25 minutes a game the rest of the season if it means they are learning from the vets. People be acting like the kids are 23-24 yrs old and had years of college experience or something.

it is not as big of a deal as some of you make it out to be and consistently post how upset you will be if we don’t make moves right now.

all I do know is the meltdown thread is obviously gonna be consistently at the top of the page with the amount of continual moaning that has already been displayed.

The sky isn’t gonna fall if we don’t trade Brogdon now.
Some repeatedly say they will be pissed. I’ll continue to hold their hand to the meltdown thread until they realize it isn’t the end of the world.

Someone needs to bump the meltdown thread. It’s already needed for some it seems.
Click to expand...

The thing is, I don't get the impression that the team wants to tank next year, so we need to season Scoot and Sharpe. Right now it's not hard to find minutes for Scoot, but when Sharpe comes back it's going to be much much harder. To me, that's a significant problem.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The thing is, I don't get the impression that the team wants to tank next year, so we need to season Scoot and Sharpe. Right now it's not hard to find minutes for Scoot, but when Sharpe comes back it's going to be much much harder. To me, that's a significant problem.
Click to expand...

I’m just not concerned like you. It will work itself out if we don’t trade Brogdon now.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Some people just need something to always B!?+# about...
Click to expand...

yup. Negativity is a disease. I’ll fully admit. Sometimes when so many are negative or bitch about irrelevancies, it gets to me and I can return the negativity in kind. That isn’t right. But damn. You can only read so much negativity/ bitching before you get fed up and toss it back.
Nate is good people though. He doesn’t bring the angst like some.
 
Holy smokes, it never ends...There is a reason the grass always greener became such a well-known saying. Y'all are like a bunch of cows standing at the fence.

I've not seen a single trade that is an upgrade to this roster. The only question is Jabari, and you don't give up on a guy with that much heart and hustle, with the skills are catching up at 21 years old. You don't trade away a great backup PG because you want to make the path easier for a young guy...He can earn and is.

This is a good cake, and now it's about culture building and letting it bake. Injuries are truly the reason for the results this season. Do we have too much potential talent at the guard positions? Yep, and you deal with that when you have certainty in the path forward.

Malcolm Brogdon (31) / Scoot Henderson (19)
Anfernee Simons (24) / Shaedon Sharpe (20)
Jerami Grant (29) / Matisse Thybulle (26) /
Jabari Walker (21) / Toumani Camara (23)
Deandre Ayton (25) / Duop Reath (27)
Ryan Rupert (19) Baking and potential surprise bonus of Robert Williams III (26) and a couple decent first round picks coming.
 
bemac said:
Holy smokes, it never ends...There is a reason the grass always greener became such a well-known saying. Y'all are like a bunch of cows standing at the fence.

I've not seen a single trade that is an upgrade to this roster. The only question is Jabari, and you don't give up on a guy with that much heart and hustle, with the skills are catching up at 21 years old. You don't trade away a great backup PG because you want to make the path easier for a young guy...He can earn and is.

This is a good cake, and now it's about culture building and letting it bake. Injuries are truly the reason for the results this season. Do we have too much potential talent at the guard positions? Yep, and you deal with that when you have certainty in the path forward.

Malcolm Brogdon (31) / Scoot Henderson (19)
Anfernee Simons (24) / Shaedon Sharpe (20)
Jerami Grant (29) / Matisse Thybulle (26) /
Jabari Walker (21) / Toumani Camara (23)
Deandre Ayton (25) / Duop Reath (27)
Ryan Rupert (19) Baking and potential surprise bonus of Robert Williams III (26) and a couple decent first round picks coming.
Click to expand...

What is the point of this? We aren't trying to win games.

Giving our two young guards 19 and 20 minutes per game is a crime.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Some people just need something to always B!?+# about...
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? How is this negativity? It's debating the strategy of this team. Playing veterans instead of young guys on a team that's one of the worst 5 in the league makes zero sense.
 
Natebishop3 said:
What are you talking about? How is this negativity? It's debating the strategy of this team. Playing veterans instead of young guys on a team that's one of the worst 5 in the league makes zero sense.
Click to expand...

Disagree.

Scoot started the year starting. He pretty much sucked.

He didn’t earn it.

I think forcing him to sit and watch what/how vets do things have helped him immensely.

Yeah they need minutes but they also need to learn.

Jabari has come miles since the start of last year. The growth I am seeing in Scoot gives me hope he can make similar huge strides.

Minutes yes, but controlled and take opportunities to teach them how to play, not just give them free reign.
 
GrandpaBlaze said:
Disagree.

Scoot started the year starting. He pretty much sucked.

He didn’t earn it.

I think forcing him to sit and watch what/how vets do things have helped him immensely.

Yeah they need minutes but they also need to learn.

Jabari has come miles since the start of last year. The growth I am seeing in Scoot gives me hope he can make similar huge strides.

Minutes yes, but controlled and take opportunities to teach them how to play, not just give them free reign.
Click to expand...

Sure, but Jabari is a second round pick. He's a role player and he knows it.

Scoot and Shaedon are potential stars. They need minutes. They need reps. The future of the organization depends on it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top