What if we trade nobody? (1 Viewer)

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Natebishop3 said:
What are you talking about? How is this negativity? It's debating the strategy of this team.
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Semantics

Playing veterans instead of young guys on a team that's one of the worst 5 in the league makes zero sense.
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To you...
A bunch of us have given explanations and reasons. You just want to hear it.
 
Malcolm was worth a first rounder last summer after he was fresh off the 6MOTY. If that's what he's worth now, why is it suddenly going to change this summer when he's a year older?

It makes no sense.

Yes, he has value as a mentor, but I'm sure we could bring in another mentor who doesn't need to take minutes from Scoot and Shae.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
To you. Just agree to disagree bro. Tag the thread and come back to it in the future when it will show who is right and who is wrong. Until then it’s differences of opinions that are currently unprovable.
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Which part is unprovable? His value? What we're going to trade him for during the summer? How it will affect Scoot's development?
 
blazerkor said:
If the offers aren't there neither has to be traded but I think the offers will be and I think if we wait the offers down the line, even at the draft won't be as good for either of them. Obviously Malcolm creates playing time problems for our prospects with the most upside but Jerami might create even bigger stumbling blocks to their growth because when he gets the ball they're not likely to get any kind of rep that possession.

Oh well, we'll see shortly how this thing goes. If either is on the team it will be a headscratcher for me. I don't see the value in wins this season and I definitely don't see the value of sitting someone for the rest of the season who is 30 years old or more unless you're trying to build an immediate winner around that player.
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Agree 100%
 
Natebishop3 said:
Malcolm was worth a first rounder last summer after he was fresh off the 6MOTY. If that's what he's worth now, why is it suddenly going to change this summer when he's a year older?

It makes no sense.

Yes, he has value as a mentor, but I'm sure we could bring in another mentor who doesn't need to take minutes from Scoot and Shae.
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Only risk to Malcolm's value is his injury history. It would suck to wind up with less than a first rounder out of him because we held on too long.
 
I'm fine with not trading Grant.

I'm fine with not trading Thybulle.

I'm fine with not trading Ayton.

I'm fine with not trading Simons.

I think we should DEFINITELY trade Brogdon.
 
I think it's plain loopy to try and argue that an injury prone 32 year old guard with an expiring contract, 19 months removed from a 6MOY, award will have as much value as an injury prone 31 year old guard with a 2 year contract, 7 months removed from a 6MOY award. Especially considering that historically there seems to be a lot more value traded for similar players at the trade deadline than in the off-season
 
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wizenheimer said:
I think it's plain loopy to try and argue that an injury prone 32 year old guard with an expiring contract, 19 months removed from a 6MOY, award will have as much value as an injury prone 31 year old guard with a 2 year contract, 7 months removed from a 6MOY award. Especially considering that historically there seems to be a lot more value traded for similar players at the trade deadline than in the off-season
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Take the pick and move on. We have too many damn guards. What do people realistically think they're going to get for him?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Sure, but Jabari is a second round pick. He's a role player and he knows it.

Scoot and Shaedon are potential stars. They need minutes. They need reps. The future of the organization depends on it.
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Um, look at how many minutes Shaedon has been playing when he has been healthy for us. He lead the league in minutes played for crying out loud at one point. Regardless if that was due to injury or not, we're more than half way through the season and Shaedon has played the most minutes per game when playing, so the Sharpe point makes no sense to this point lol.
 
sheed30 said:
Um, look at how many minutes Shaedon has been playing when he has been healthy for us. He lead the league in minutes played for crying out loud at one point. Regardless if that was due to injury or not, we're more than half way through the season and Shaedon has played the most minutes per game when playing, so the Sharpe point makes no sense to this point lol.
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Yeah, when we had injuries.

He has barely played with everyone healthy.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Malcolm was worth a first rounder last summer after he was fresh off the 6MOTY. If that's what he's worth now, why is it suddenly going to change this summer when he's a year older?

It makes no sense.

Yes, he has value as a mentor, but I'm sure we could bring in another mentor who doesn't need to take minutes from Scoot and Shae.
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you just answered your own question. His value won’t change 6 months later. We can get a 1st for him down the road.

Ant said himself that Dame would come off the court and explain what and why he is doing what he is doing. The best mentoring can come from showing them on the court, which means the mentors need to have minutes on the floor to show, not just tell the young guys what is best to do. This means some less minutes on the court and instead sitting on the bench watching and learning.
Ant has expressed how valuable this was for him and I will take his opinion of how valuable that is over yours or anyone else here for that matter. I’m sorry but an active player who has gone through this scenario holds more weight than anyone here.
Just agree to disagree. I respect your opinions, I just don’t happen to agree with it this time.
I also disagree 6-9 months is gonna drop his value much. But we can agree to disagree. It’s all good.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
Ant said himself that Dame would come off the court and explain what and why he is doing what he is doing. The best mentoring can come from showing them on the court, which means the mentors need to have minutes on the floor to show, not just tell the young guys what is best to do. This means some less minutes on the court and instead sitting on the bench watching and learning.
Ant has expressed how valuable this was for him and I will take his opinion of how valuable that is over yours or anyone else here for that matter. I’m sorry but an active player who has gone through this scenario holds more weight than anyone here.
Just agree to disagree. I respect your opinions, I just don’t happen to agree with it this time.
I also disagree 6-9 months is gonna drop his value much. But we can agree to disagree. It’s all good.
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So what is Simons there for? I get that he isn't as old as Brogdon, but he's been in the league... what.... five years now?
 
Natebishop3 said:
So what is Simons there for? I get that he isn't as old as Brogdon, but he's been in the league... what.... five years now?
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Did you watch the video? Ant is just now figuring things out. He doesn’t have all the answers yet to explain. He is taking what he has been taught and starting to put it all together. Malcom has been there and has put it together for years. Hell, they can both mentor Scoot.
Ant can take over in a year when Scoot has soaked up a lot of Brogs knowledge, and is in a better position to truly educate him, if he even wants to do that. Brog is the one who said he will work with Scoot. Not everyone is built for mentoring. But Brog has publicly stated he will mentor Scoot. Has Ant?
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
Did you watch the video? Ant is just now figuring things out. He doesn’t have all the answers yet to explain. He is taking what he has been taught and starting to put it all together. Malcom has been there and has put it together for years. Hell, they can both mentor Scoot.
Ant can take over in a year when Scoot has soaked up a lot of Brogs knowledge, and is in a better position to truly educate him, if he even wants to do that. Brog is the one who said he will work with Scoot. Not everyone is built for mentoring. But Brog has publicly stated he will mentor Scoot. Has Ant?
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It's not like we signed Brog as a free agent.

He and Williams are assets we got for Dame. If we let them basically depreciate down to nothing, that massively diminishes the return we got for Dame.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It's not like we signed Brog as a free agent.

He and Williams are assets we got for Dame. If we let them basically depreciate down to nothing, that massively diminishes the return we got for Dame.
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That didn’t address any of the points I made.
Again. Massively diminished is your opinion based on what you place value on. I see value in other things. You don’t. I get it. Move on bro. Your not convincing me of anything. :) stick a fork in it and let’s see how it plays out.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
That didn’t address any of the points I made.
Again. Massively diminished is your opinion based on what you place value on. I see value in other things. You don’t. I get it. Move on bro. Your not convincing me of anything. :) stick a fork in it and let’s see how it plays out.
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It's not what I place value on. It's the league. Why would he gain value as he gets older?
 
I'd like to see the roster get balanced out, but if we have to take a massive discount in order to move Brogdon (or Thybulle/Ant/Sharpe/Scoot), I'd rather wait. If we can get a great value for any of the guards, then I'm ok moving any of them.
 
Tince said:
I'd like to see the roster get balanced out, but if we have to take a massive discount in order to move Brogdon (or Thybulle/Ant/Sharpe/Scoot), I'd rather wait. If we can get a great value for any of the guards, then I'm ok moving any of them.
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You would be ok with the idea of trading Sharp? He probably has the most value on the team. Speed up the rebuilding process and balance out the roster.
 
I love how people can always find a way to excuse this organization doing absolutely nothing why talking down upon others for having any expectations whatsoever.

This organization trades Hart for a pick that that they drafted with when they were "trying to win", can't effectively trade the 3rd overall pick when they're "trying to win", and now might keep a veteran who's in the way of playing time for their young core who they're rebuilding around? That's the definition of directionless and operating without a plan.

How are the Blazers going to play Scoot, Sharpe, and Simons enough minutes with Brogdon in the mix and Thybulle/Grant at SF? Brogdan gets in the way.

You don't have to have veteran mentors in the way of your young players. Someone mentioned Earl Watson for Dame - That's a perfect example. Also, Chauncey's supposed to be that mentor. I also think people overrate what a couple months of "veteran mentorship" brings, wordlessly when there's other people and coaches who can provide the same guidance.

Brogdons value is also the highest its going to be and he's healthy. Portland needs to accumulate assets to maximize a window of contention that's far down the line. They just sat around stuck in the middle for a decade and hanging onto Brogdon is the type of move that trends more towards being stuck in the middle instead of contending down the line.

This is the simplest of decisions, and I fully expect Cronin to make the wrong one.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
It's not what I place value on. It's the league. Why would he gain value as he gets older?
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Who said he would gain value? Why you twisting things up? You said he would massively diminish his value. Then you said he was worth a first round pick as 6th man and worth the same now. I said he will be worth about the same 6months from now and disagree of your opinion about massively diminishing. None of that means I said he would increase value.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
Who said he would gain value? Why you twisting things up? You said he would massively diminish his value. Then you said he was worth a first round pick as 6th man and worth the same now. I said he will be worth about the same 6months from now and disagree of your opinion about massively diminishing. None of that means I said he would increase value.
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:dunno::dunno:

sheed30 said:
He also has one more year on his contract after this. We don’t have to trade him right now.

His value might be higher in the off-season where he will be a rent player for one year on a team trying to get over the hump. His salary this year and next year is the same. Not like his contract gets worse next season.

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sheed30 said:
Fair enough.

I think the part we disagree on is his value now is the best it will get. With the new rules in place with regards to cap spending and all that, this off-season will be the best time his value is at his highest, ofcourse unless he gets hurt from now till the offseason.

Teams that want to add Brogdon to their team to get over the hump, if they take him before this trade deadline, will have to account to matching his salary this season and then he is also on the books for them next season too.
Where as if they trade for Brodgon in this offseason, they can match his salary going out in the offseason and he is basically on their payroll for a one year rent. If he gets hurt next season or it doesn’t pan out for whatever team he goes too they can just take him off those books the following offseason.

So I think his value might be higher in this offseason personally.
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SharpeScooterShooter said:
I agree. I think we can get more for him in the offseason or early next season. People say he is injury prone, but I think the specifics of the injuries somewhat counter that. Given a full year to prove he is healthy I think is also a value that counters the decreased time of his contract. And he can always resign and if traded to a contender and he puts them over the top, likely will resign to keep on winning.
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RR7 said:
lol, and you complain about others arguing semantics. good day
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Good day to you too! If Nate had asked how I think he might gain value, I would have answered accordingly. But i'm not sure if he will gain value. I'm not being definitive like some. But I also highly doubt his value will massively diminish. "Might gain value" could be going from one middle first two a middle first and two seconds, or many other things as well. I think he is playing better now than he was at the beginning of the season. To me that provides the possibility of increased value. But, again. I'm not sure. I didn't say he would massively increase his value. Would you like to pick one word out and focus on that again or address any of the many many reasons/opinions I have made for not wanting to trade him unless its a great return? Or would you like to continue playing the semantics game? :)
 
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