What it will take to get Stotts fired? (2 Viewers)

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blazerkor said:
I don't love Stotts, he could do a lot of things better but this is just bullshit if you ask me. Comparing the playoffs to the regular season is pure craziness. Look at what "good coaches" records are in the playoffs. There are very few with a record over .500.
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I stopped reading after that.
* Nurse = 0.667
* Stevens = 0.523
* Spo = 0.619
* Doc = 0.511
* D'Antoni = 0.505
* Carslie = 0.476
* Kerr = 0.733
* Gentry = 0.563
* Pop = 0.599

Stotts = 0.344

One of these coaches are not like the others. I wonder which one it is....
Even Brett Brown got fired, despite being much more successful (0.462) than Stotts
 
tester551 said:
I stopped reading after that.
* Nurse = 0.667
* Stevens = 0.523
* Spo = 0.619
* Doc = 0.511
* D'Antoni = 0.505
* Carslie = 0.476
* Kerr = 0.733
* Gentry = 0.563
* Pop = 0.599

Stotts = 0.344

One of these coaches are not like the others. I wonder which one it is....
Even Brett Brown got fired, despite being much more successful (0.462) than Stotts
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Yeah that was a bad point. Among active coaches in the NBA Stotts has the fourth worst playoff winning percentage. That being said, you should read the rest of that post because win percentage in the playoffs can be very deceiving and the post explains that to you. Oh and I also say three times in that post that I don't care for Stotts as a coach and go so far as to say I would have fired him and Olshey a while ago.
 
blazerkor said:
I don't love Stotts, he could do a lot of things better but this is just bullshit if you ask me. Comparing the playoffs to the regular season is pure craziness. Look at what "good coaches" records are in the playoffs. There are very few with a record over .500. Winning a third of your games in the playoffs isn't bad. It's not the regular season. I also think Stotts needs to adjust better in the playoffs and there have been one or maybe two playoff series where I was really pissed at him, definitely the NOLA sweep but other than that his teams got beat by the better teams. That run last season was a good run, I don't really care how it ended, just that it ended at the conference finals (I do wish it ended with a championship but that team didn't have a chance). I also think pointing out what a coaches record is in series that he lost is pointless. The way you are quantifying this it's like you better either miss the playoffs, sweep opponents, lose in 7 games or win championships without going to game sevens otherwise you're fucked. If a coach got to the finals every year for three years going to game seven in every series except getting swept out of the finals all three years and then the next year won the championship going seven games in every series including the finals... that would be a pretty fucking awesome run and that coaches winning percentage in the playoffs would be .505. That translates to a 41-41 record for an 82 game season... pretty underwhelming until you realize that coach just won four straight conference championships and one NBA championship. Another example is a coach that goes to the playoffs seven straight seasons but loses in the first round in seven games all seven post-seasons. Was that coach more successful than Stotts who has also gone to the playoffs for seven straight seasons and has won 4 series, making it to the conference finals once? The answer is obviously no that other coach wasn't more successful than Stotts but that coach has a win percentage in the playoffs of .429 compared to Stotts' playoff win percentage of .357 in the same time span. Do you see how your statistics are kind of shitty? Don't get me wrong, I would have fired Olshey and Stotts a while ago but that doesn't mean that the numbers you are using paint an accurate picture.
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no, I don't think my perspective is "shitty" and I've explained why several times. I'll distill it down one more time:

I don't believe regular season record is the best gauge of what the actual status or level a team is. Rather, it's the playoff performance against the true contenders. And if you're a team like Portland trying to climb to the level of those true contenders, that's the most revealing gauge of progress. It's not occasionally beating another flawed, injured, or young team. What you do against good teams with good defenses

that's why I'm saying that 4-28 record in close out series is so damning. One sweep or one 1-4 loss, or even both of those results could be circumstantial or just a match-up problem. But they could have endured that and still showed progress the other 5 times they faced elite teams. Showed they had improved their ability to compete on that level. But they haven't. They faced the Warriors 3 times in the playoffs and the only win they logged was in the first series they faced the Warriors, and that win came at home, when Curry was out. Progress would have generated at least a couple more wins in the two subsequent series, but instead it was sweeps

more than that, in terms of showing progress, is looking at how Portland has lost those 7 times. And the formula has been the same, over an over: 'stop-Dame=crush-the-Blazers'. Couldn't be a simpler formula, and for 7 straight years, the Blazers have had no answer....no progress. It's even worse than that 4-28 record over 7 years; over the last 4 seasons, it's 1-16....yuck

in the 8 years of the Olshey/Stotts era, Portland has averaged 45 wins in the regular season. They've made it out of the first round 3 times, but one of those times was against a crippled Clippers team. And yes, it's worth noting that considering how much chatter there is around here about how well Portland could have done if they'd only been "healthy". That's an average of 45 regular season wins and 2.7 playoff wins; and bowing out of the playoffs the same way, over and over. Is 45 + 2.7 satisfactory?

is there really any reason for optimism with that? Any reason to believe next year will be different? Or is it seemingly guaranteed Portland will reboot the same core players with some minor rotational changes and end up with the same result at the end of next season?
 
wizenheimer said:
....that's why I'm saying that 4-28 record in close out series is so damning. .... They faced the Warriors 3 times in the playoffs and the only win they logged was in the first series they faced the Warriors, and that win came at home, when Curry was out. Progress would have generated at least a couple more wins in the two subsequent series, but instead it was sweeps

more than that, in terms of showing progress, is looking at how Portland has lost those 7 times. And the formula has been the same, over an over: 'stop-Dame=crush-the-Blazers'. Couldn't be a simpler formula, and for 7 straight years, the Blazers have had no answer....no progress. It's even worse than that 4-28 record over 7 years; over the last 4 seasons, it's 1-16....yuck

.... an average of 45 regular season wins and 2.7 playoff wins; and bowing out of the playoffs the same way, over and over. Is 45 + 2.7 satisfactory?

is there really any reason for optimism with that? Any reason to believe next year will be different? Or is it seemingly guaranteed Portland will reboot the same core players with some minor rotational changes and end up with the same result at the end of next season?
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So much this!! Great points. And Stotts benefits from one 'good' year. In statistics, they will tell you to take out the high and the low and average the rest to get a truer average so one really up or down number doesn't skew the stats. Take out the best (last season) and the worst (pick a sweep year) and that Playoff average goes from close to 3 to closer to 2.

I just don't get how complete purgatory gets us anywhere. Not good enough to contend, not bad enough to have a chance at drafting a player who could make a difference.
 
Some insight
https://theathletic.com/2058117/202...an-lillards-offense-offseason-moves-and-more/

There’s no question the Blazers lost something when two of Stotts’ top assistants left — Jay Triano in 2016 and David Vanterpool in 2019. Triano was exceptionally sharp, particularly on offense, and had head coaching experience in Toronto. He left for Phoenix in part because the Blazers didn’t want to match the Suns’ offer. Triano was replaced by John McCullough, Stotts’ college friend who was the team’s advance scout for the previous four years and whose previous coaching experience was leading the women’s team at Oklahoma Baptist University.

Vanterpool was the Blazers’ defensive coordinator, and went to Minnesota to become associate head coach. His claim to fame is largely tied to the development of Lillard and McCollum from lottery picks to stars. He was replaced by Jannero Pargo, a former NBA guard who had two years of coaching experience as a G-League assistant.

I’m not saying McCullough or Pargo are bad coaches. Not at all. But there was an undeniable dip in experience when each was hired, and that experience gap was probably felt along the way in some form or fashion. It’s the way it works with any job.

As far as changes for next season, I think the most likely scenario would be if associate head coach Nate Tibbetts gets hired as a head coach, thus creating an opening. Tibbetts, who this season went from offensive coordinator to defensive coordinator, has interviewed for head coaching positions around the league in previous seasons, and this summer he is reportedly on the Indiana Pacers’ list.

But I think it’s difficult to judge the staff on this season. There were so many injuries to key players that it’s unfair to make an assessment.
 
Look he ain't going anywhere. He will maybe go when the contract is up. Fans just have to accept that
 
If you have a good coach like Triano, you not only match Phoenix offer, you exceed it. Who made the decision on that; Olshey or McGowan? And why haven't they found better replacements?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
If you have a good coach like Triano, you not only match Phoenix offer, you exceed it. Who made the decision on that; Olshey or McGowan? And why haven't they found better replacements?
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our offense hasn't been the problem, even after Triano left, and Jay primarily handled offense. Vanterpool --> Tibbets otoh on defense. That might have been an issue.

Then again, the personnel hasn't been great.
 
TBpup said:
So Stotts goes with his friend and Dame goes with his friend CJ.

Friends are great....but this is a business. Overdue to do better.
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It's a GM's job to make these business decisions and leave friendship out of it. Dame is locked into his contract and is also very reasonable, if we could get further by making moves then he'd be fine. He was disappointed when Plumlee left and now Nurk might be his best friend on the team. As far as Stotts is concerned in this situation the GM should pick and hire a defensive guy to be associate head coach and if Terry doesn't like it he can walk. I can't count how many times I've heard all three of these guys say, "It's a business." It's time for Olshey, who is the business part of the equation, to start handling some business.

However, Olshey is going to talk about the injuries and wanting to give this team a chance and probably just bring this same roster back with the addition of the 16th pick and someone we get with whatever MLE space Melo doesn't get because I still don't think Melo is going to be back on the vet min maybe it won't even be because Melo demands more Neil has a rich history of bidding against himself... that's pretty much his M.O. overpaying guys and zero accountability.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
After many years, I'm mostly off the Stotts bandwagon.

I would be very interested in Kenny Adkinson.
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Wouldn't mind David Adelman from Denver. He would need a defensive minded Asst Coach, but I hear very good things about him from people around the league.
 
brooklynballer said:
Difference is Brooklyn played without their two best players (Irving & Durant) while both of Portland’s were in the lineup. And Stotts still sucked balls.
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If you're a fan of Atkins, that's totally cool with me.
 
Tince said:
Based off Twitter: Brad Stevens can't coach and will be available this off-season. I'd gladly take him!
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I think Stevens has run up against a matchup problem; and the Celts have no answer for Adebayo
 
wizenheimer said:
I think Stevens has run up against a matchup problem; and the Celts have no answer for Adebayo
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I think you're probably right. Sometimes teams just don't have the right fire power to combat a particular opponent, regardless of scheme.
 
illmatic99 said:
Some insight
https://theathletic.com/2058117/202...an-lillards-offense-offseason-moves-and-more/

There’s no question the Blazers lost something when two of Stotts’ top assistants left — Jay Triano in 2016 and David Vanterpool in 2019. Triano was exceptionally sharp, particularly on offense, and had head coaching experience in Toronto. He left for Phoenix in part because the Blazers didn’t want to match the Suns’ offer. Triano was replaced by John McCullough, Stotts’ college friend who was the team’s advance scout for the previous four years and whose previous coaching experience was leading the women’s team at Oklahoma Baptist University.

Vanterpool was the Blazers’ defensive coordinator, and went to Minnesota to become associate head coach. His claim to fame is largely tied to the development of Lillard and McCollum from lottery picks to stars. He was replaced by Jannero Pargo, a former NBA guard who had two years of coaching experience as a G-League assistant.

I’m not saying McCullough or Pargo are bad coaches. Not at all. But there was an undeniable dip in experience when each was hired, and that experience gap was probably felt along the way in some form or fashion. It’s the way it works with any job.

As far as changes for next season, I think the most likely scenario would be if associate head coach Nate Tibbetts gets hired as a head coach, thus creating an opening. Tibbetts, who this season went from offensive coordinator to defensive coordinator, has interviewed for head coaching positions around the league in previous seasons, and this summer he is reportedly on the Indiana Pacers’ list.

But I think it’s difficult to judge the staff on this season. There were so many injuries to key players that it’s unfair to make an assessment.
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I dont think Tibbetts gets hired as a head coach, I hope Im wrong put there are to many veteran head coaches that will be recycled. There are other AC's that seem to get more pub than he does too.
 
illmatic99 said:
Yet Portland is supposed to beat Lebron? Maybe we're being too critical of Terry then?
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I don't think Stotts is a great coach at all, and it's arguable how good he actually is

I also think some of the criticisms directed at him are off-base; some, but not all. His biggest problem is his tool-box is limited and missing some essential tools that other coaches have. That's not his fault. Look higher in the flow chart for that blame
 
Be honest. When Stotts was hired, how many people here thought he would be in the job for more than 2-3 seasons? Did even ONE Blazer fan say "this is our long term solution who will lead us to a title"??

I will admit he exceeded my expectations, but that alone doesn't entitle him to lifetime tenure!
 
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