What it will take to get Stotts fired?

[jlprk]

I have been watching the last dance and they are talking about the Bulls firing Doug Collins the year after he went to the ECF because his entire offense was built around, and tell me if this sounds familiar, getting the ball into the hands of his best player and nothing else. Doug Collins' offense was entirely built around iso ball.

They fired his ass and went with Phil Jackson and Tex Winter because Phil's philosophy was that they needed to build an offense around lifting up the other players.

We will never win with our version of Doug Collins.

That's not the real reason Chicago fired Collins. He's mental. Seriously. Later, Washington fired him for going nuts, too.

 

[jlprk]

Why aren't we talking about Chris McGowan. He's the one who can make these decisions. It doesn't have to be about Jody nor do I want it to be.

Good point. He's always struck me as a business guy, not a basketball guy like some presidents. If he's making sure Jody's investment is doing ok, I believe he'll have a job. He obviously would be the one to fire Olshey, but why would he really want to rock the boat either?

No, McGowan is Olshey's equal. Olshey would be fired by the owner, the same as Pritchard and Buchanan and Whitsitt were. And that idiot what's his name who was Pritchard's best friend.

(I don't believe any fake organization chart you find.)

 

[BonesJones]

If you think that all we run is ISO, then we're watching different games.

Were Kraft in the league on assists. Definitely near or at the top in terms of isolations.

90% of our offense is 1v1 or pick n roll (sometimes with some meaningless movement to make it look prettier).

 

[TBpup]

After game 5, it is very likely Stotts' Playoff winning percentage will be....

....... .344

For the love of this franchise, Dame, and the fans, please don't let this continue to happen year after year after year.

 

[brooklynballer]

Wish we could go back a couple months ago with our injuries and tell the board : the team will 1) make the playoffs 2) play the Lakers and lose 4-1 and see who is so Fucking livid at that. Now that it’s happening everyone SHOCKED and so upset.

It’s not that they’re losing, that was expected. It’s how they’re losing. With the exception of Game 1, they’re not even competitive - primarily because the offensive system they run is so primitive and easy to game plan against. Trap Dame, and you will beat this team, and rather easily. Oh, and they don’t play a lick of defense and that’s on the coach for not instilling that as a pillar of his coaching philosophy.

 

[TBpup]

Dame getting injuries both to his finger and to his knee are heartbreaking.....but do NOT let that cloud the reality of what was happening on the court.

• When Dame's finger was dislocated, Portland was down by 30 in the 3rd quarter.
• When Dame went down with the knee injury, Portland was down by 29 points....again in the dreaded 3rd quarter.

This is to Javale McGee, KCP, Danny Green, Enrico Caruso, out of the league JR Smith, old shell Dwight Howard, roller coaster Kuzma, 1/2 the Morris troup to go with old LeBron and 4th quarter scared Davis.

Not to take away from how good those two players are, but the rest of that roster is a train wreck. And Dame, CJ, Melo, Whiteside and Nurk were down 30 points twice to that group.

 

[illmatic99]

All this is moot. This annual Fire Terry Stotts thread is such a waste of time (seriously, it's every freaking year at playoff time). He and Dame are tied at the hip-- if Terry is fired, you risk alienating Dame, which Neil won't do.

The only way Terry goes is if Neil goes, and we teardown the whole thing and hope and pray that Dame doesn't get disenfranchised. Having his supermax locked up is at least a bit comforting.

 

[brooklynballer]

All this is moot. This annual Fire Terry Stotts thread is such a waste of time (seriously, it's every freaking year at playoff time). He and Dame are tied at the hip-- if Terry is fired, you risk alienating Dame, which Neil won't do.

How do you know this? Has Dame ever said he wouldn’t play for another coach? Pure conjecture and nothing else.

Dame is a loyal guy. He’s loyal to the Blazer fans. He’s loyal to this organization. He’s loyal to his teammates. And he’s loyal to his coach. He’s loyal to a fault but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t support a coaching change. One way to get him on board is to include him in the recruitment process (seek his feedback, etc).

 

[Buffalo Custard]

Dame getting injuries both to his finger and to his knee are heartbreaking.....but do NOT let that cloud the reality of what was happening on the court.

• When Dame's finger was dislocated, Portland was down by 30 in the 3rd quarter.
• When Dame went down with the knee injury, Portland was down by 29 points....again in the dreaded 3rd quarter.

This is to Javale McGee, KCP, Danny Green, Enrico Caruso, out of the league JR Smith, old shell Dwight Howard, roller coaster Kuzma, 1/2 the Morris troup to go with old LeBron and 4th quarter scared Davis.

Not to take away from how good those two players are, but the rest of that roster is a train wreck. And Dame, CJ, Melo, Whiteside and Nurk were down 30 points twice to that group.

This Laker team was vulnerable. I guess somebody else is going to have to step up and give them their stomping.

 

[illmatic99]

How do you know this? Has Dame ever said he wouldn’t play for another coach? Pure conjecture and nothing else.

Dame is a loyal guy. He’s loyal to the Blazer fans. He’s loyal to this organization. He’s loyal to his teammates. And he’s loyal to his coach. He’s loyal to a fault but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t support a coaching change. One way to get him on board is to include him in the recruitment process (seek his feedback, etc).

When was the last time you saw a top 10 player in the NBA so outwardly support his coach?

This was from last week:
https://theathletic.com/2005361/?source=twitterhq

I have my own reasons for what I do. I have my own stuff I want to accomplish. I want my coach to keep his job. I want my teammates to be rewarded with good contracts. I want to be a winning player. I want my teammates to enjoy playing with me and feel like they’re a part of something special. All that stuff matters to me.

It's not the first time. He has repeatedly backed Terry.

This was 2 yrs ago after the NO sweep:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25321406/zach-lowe-damian-lillard-portland-trail-blazers-nba

Ownership came close to firing Terry Stotts, several sources say. Teams with head-coaching vacancies, including Phoenix, began engaging third parties about Stotts' potential interest in their jobs, sources say.

But the Blazers didn't break. Lillard fought for Stotts. "I was asked what I thought, and I just said I love him as a coach," Lillard says. "We all love him." (They show it, too. When Stotts moved into third place on Portland's all-time win list last season, CJ McCollum bought him an $1,800 bottle of Bordeaux.)

Neil Olshey, the team's GM, fought even harder. They haven't always seen eye-to-eye, but entering their seventh year together, Stotts and Olshey have developed an understanding: Olshey stays away from players who don't fit Stotts' style, and Stotts coaches what he gets. The players will never see them at odds in any serious, prolonged way. There is no taking sides in Portland because there are no sides at the highest levels.

Just a couple examples, but I think it would go without saying that Dame would be upset with a Terry firing.

 

[illmatic99]

This Laker team was vulnerable. I guess somebody else is going to have to step up and give them their stomping.

They have so many freaking holes, but we neither have the personnel, nor the strategy to counter them at the moment. That LA team is not championship caliber.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

They have so many freaking holes, but we neither have the personnel, nor the strategy to counter them at the moment. That LA team is not championship caliber.

It might win because there really isn't a great team out there. I agree with you though in that I think most years they wouldn't win.

 

[mook]

Someone find me 1 player who has played under Stotts that left Portland and was a major contributor to that team making the NBA finals.

Aldridge, our best player for a couple years, went to the Spurs to play for the best coach in the NBA, along side Kawhi, Gasol, Manu, and Parker. You know how many conference finals games Aldridge as won? ZERO.

Batum, Matthews, Harkless, Aminu, Ed Davis, Barton, Crabbe, Lopez, Hendersen, Plumlee, Turner, Kanter.

None of these guys, since leaving Portland have been on an NBA finals team. Some have had great teammates, great coaches, but the reality is, they weren't enough to take Portland to the finals and they haven't been enough anywhere else.

This is a talent issue, not a coaching issue.

You are 100% correct. And frankly, it's not even about making an NBA finals.

Just make a list of guys who just played significantly better after leaving Portland. Off the top of my head, it's probably just Jake Layman and Pat Connaughton (both really young guys who just realized their upside.)

You could argue Aldridge got a little better, which implies Stotts isn't as good of a coach as Popovich, which I will happily agree with. But if we are only looking at coaches as good or better than Popovich, well, good luck hiring one of those.

Olshey has done an excellent job of bargain bin hunting both in the draft and free agency. But in the end he's been too precious with CJ and other players that he should have been much quicker to trade.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

All this is moot. This annual Fire Terry Stotts thread is such a waste of time (seriously, it's every freaking year at playoff time). He and Dame are tied at the hip-- if Terry is fired, you risk alienating Dame, which Neil won't do.

The only way Terry goes is if Neil goes, and we teardown the whole thing and hope and pray that Dame doesn't get disenfranchised. Having his supermax locked up is at least a bit comforting.

I agree 100%. All the Terry needs to go stuff is a great conversation, but I give it like a 1% chance of happening. If it does happen it'll be part of basically a complete overhaul of the entire team and Dame will probably be gone too. We can say he's under contract but he's a superstar they get what they want in the NBA.

 

[twobullz]

You are 100% correct. And frankly, it's not even about making an NBA finals.

Just make a list of guys who just played significantly better after leaving Portland. Off the top of my head, it's probably just Jake Layman and Pat Connaughton (both really young guys who just realized their upside.)

You could argue Aldridge got a little better, which implies Stotts isn't as good of a coach as Popovich, which I will happily agree with. But if we are only looking at coaches as good or better than Popovich, well, good luck hiring one of those.

Olshey has done an excellent job of bargain bin hunting both in the draft and free agency. But in the end he's been too precious with CJ and other players that he should have been much quicker to trade.

Please tell me what Jake Layman did this year at all that would make you think he improved?

 

[illmatic99]

You are 100% correct. And frankly, it's not even about making an NBA finals.

Just make a list of guys who just played significantly better after leaving Portland. Off the top of my head, it's probably just Jake Layman and Pat Connaughton (both really young guys who just realized their upside.)

You could argue Aldridge got a little better, which implies Stotts isn't as good of a coach as Popovich, which I will happily agree with. But if we are only looking at coaches as good or better than Popovich, well, good luck hiring one of those.

Olshey has done an excellent job of bargain bin hunting both in the draft and free agency. But in the end he's been too precious with CJ and other players that he should have been much quicker to trade.

Why is this the barometer to evaluate Terry's coaching? Maximizing talent is one thing, but actually being able to win in the playoffs is quite another.

I agree that Neil is as much to blame if not more for our troubles, but year after year, we see Terry struggle to make changes and solve problems in the playoffs.

He can't coach defense even if his life depended on it. Even with Wes/Nic/Aldridge, our defensive rating was only 9th best in the league in 2015. The best defensive team he coached was actually in 2017, when we were 7th. We were 27th this year.

While his offenses have very good in the regular season (top 3 three times in 8 seasons), he consistently fails to make adjustments in the playoffs. His solution to solve Dame traps is to put both Whiteside and Nurkic in a lineup with Dame? How does he get away with that? Terry has major holes that have to be acknowledge. He gets a pass every year because of injuries or Dame bailing him out, but if we want Dame to do more than just get to the playoffs, we need improvement from everywhere-- including coaching.

 

[mook]

this Portland team is Olshey's vision. It's been 100% Olshey's vision since the Aldridge team disintegrated. It was Olshey's vision when he tried to give a max deal to Roy Hibbert; it was his vision when he tried to give max deals to Kanter and Greg Monroe; and when he tried to give max deals to Chandler Parsons and Hassan Whiteside. It was Olshey's vision when he gave a huge deal to Evan Turner; and when he matched Crabbe's offer sheet; and when he gave Meyers an extension. It was Olshey's vision that gave CJ that flexibility killing extension last summer. And it's been Olshey's vision every time he's given Stotts more years as coach

Olshey's vision works great in the bargain bins and dumpsters. When a team wants to dump a player, Olshey is first in line; and he sees well in the 2nd round of drafts.

but when it comes to bigger moves, Olshey's doesn't see as well as he needs to. He spends time mucking around with the lower levels of the rotation under the false impression that a change in 4th or 5th options will alter Portland's trajectory. Portland's big issues are at the top of the rotation, not lower down

and as always, the co-pilots in Olshey's plane every off-season are the excuses why the previous season fell short. Olshey is Mr. Excuses-is-Me

Blazers need a new vision and a new direction. They won't get one until Olshey is gone

I agree with all of this except firing the coach. I'd like to see what Stotts could do when not saddled with Olshey's vision.

That first paragraph is quite stunning to re-read. Portland has only been truly spared Olshey's incompetence with contracts by his own failure to get guys to sign. Hibbert, Monroe, Kanter, Parsons, Whiteside, Turner, Leonard. That's a murderer's row of terrible solutions to the modern NBA. If you add up all the money he wanted to chuck at these guys you're probably looking at a quarter of a billion dollars. Fuck.

And then to watch Aldridge leave without compensation. We all wrote that off as Aldridge's flakiness, but when you get down to it it's the GM's job to make sure this doesn't happen.

It's quite striking that Stotts has been as successful as he has been given the stupidity of our GM.

 

[mook]

Why is this the barometer to evaluate Terry's coaching? Maximizing talent is one thing, but actually being able to win in the playoffs is quite another.

I agree that Neil is as much to blame if not more for our troubles, but year after year, we see Terry struggle to make changes and solve problems in the playoffs.

How is Stotts expected to succeed in the playoffs without talent? I can't think of a better barometer for a coach than how his players do when he's not coaching them. It levels the playing field.

 

[mook]

Please tell me what Jake Layman did this year at all that would make you think he improved?

lol. I caught a couple games where he looked good. But I could be wrong.

 

[illmatic99]

How is Stotts expected to succeed in the playoffs without talent? I can't think of a better barometer for a coach than how his players do when he's not coaching them. It levels the playing field.

I'm not trying to defend Neil because I think he is as culpable if not more for our troubles. His roster construction has been appalling, and his draft misses often get overshadowed.

But we have the 2nd, 4th, and 5th best players in this series this year and are getting massacred. And the way LA is defending Dame is the exact same way every team has defended him since 2015. Why do we do nothing different? We have ended every season by losing 4 in a row in the playoffs the last four years in a row. He hasn't made a single adjustment in any of those seasons.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'm not trying to defend Neil because I think he is as culpable if not more for our troubles. His roster construction has been appalling, and his draft misses often get overshadowed.

But we have the 2nd, 4th, and 5th best players in this series this year and are getting massacred. And the way LA is defending Dame is the exact same way every team has defended him since 2015. Why do we do nothing different? We have ended every season by losing 4 in a row in the playoffs the last four years in a row. He hasn't made a single adjustment in any of those seasons.

I think the brutal thing is, it seems like the Blazers literally fall apart and have no answers at the end of every playoff run. You can sort of get away with that when GS is wrecking the entire league, but if you arent going to trade CJ, or Fire Stotts or rebuild, running it back with slight alterations becomes insanity at some point when they have major flaws that dont really get addressed.

 

[illmatic99]

I just hate the idea that Dame's whole career in Portland will be tied to Terry Stotts. This isn't a coach who should have the tenure that guys like Spoelstra/Pop/Carlisle do, but he does. We made that bed last summer when we gave Terry that extension.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

They should have made a lot of changes after the New Orleans series. Last year was one of the more fun years I remember as a Blazer fan, but all it really did was reinforce continuing to run Terry out there with little changes. I realize there were some injuries this year and if healthy they're better, but it's still obvious they aren't that close...

 

[TBpup]

I'm not trying to defend Neil because I think he is as culpable if not more for our troubles. His roster construction has been appalling, and his draft misses often get overshadowed.

But we have the 2nd, 4th, and 5th best players in this series this year and are getting massacred. And the way LA is defending Dame is the exact same way every team has defended him since 2015. Why do we do nothing different? We have ended every season by losing 4 in a row in the playoffs the last four years in a row. He hasn't made a single adjustment in any of those seasons.

So much this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PCmor7]

I think the brutal thing is, it seems like the Blazers literally fall apart and have no answers at the end of every playoff run. You can sort of get away with that when GS is wrecking the entire league, but if you arent going to trade CJ, or Fire Stotts or rebuild, running it back with slight alterations becomes insanity at some point when they have major flaws that dont really get addressed.

Yes. The whole "it could be worse" shouldn't be an excuse for not trying to make it better.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Yes. The whole "it could be worse" shouldn't be an excuse for not trying to make it better.

I get playing the 'low-risk' game. I have done risk-analysis a lot, but at some point by not taking any risks you're taking even bigger risks. Like paying CJ a superstar level salary when he's not even really all that close to an Allstar level player. Constantly having a high payroll and no flexibility. Never being willing to move on from a coach just extending him further and further. It's a business, and there's a lot of moving parts but they seem to be so 'risk-averse' and comfortable that the franchise is just happy being an ok team that's not bad enough to get elite talent in the draft, not good enough to truly be a championship contender. It's weird...

 

[riverman]

lol. I caught a couple games where he looked good. But I could be wrong.

He hardly played all season...he was out with a foot injury

 

[PCmor7]

I get playing the 'low-risk' game. I have done risk-analysis a lot, but at some point by not taking any risks you're taking even bigger risks. Like paying CJ a superstar level salary when he's not even really all that close to an Allstar level player. Constantly having a high payroll and no flexibility. Never being willing to move on from a coach just extending him further and further. It's a business, and there's a lot of moving parts but they seem to be so 'risk-averse' and comfortable that the franchise is just happy being an ok team that's not bad enough to get elite talent in the draft, not good enough to truly be a championship contender. It's weird...

You can afford to be more risk-averse if Dame is 28 than you can be when he's 31.

 

[OneSport3]

Here's a great article on how you can beat the aggressive high trap of Dame near midcourt. Of course Stotts isn't able to figure this out himself. This is something a coach should be able to recognize and adjust and coach his player. And the fact that the NBA is such a copycat league, it is even more egregious that Stotts hasn't tried this at all.

https://theathletic.com/2020741/202...llard-and-steph-curry-against-elite-defenses/

For those that don't have access to the article, the premise is both Dame and Steph Curry get trapped high out at midcourt. Both players do the right thing by passing the ball. However, the difference is what happens after the pass. Dame will usually just stand around and watch or isn't involved while the play unfolds. While Curry, continues to move without the ball, relocating to an open spot. He knows that once he get rids of the ball, it is a natural instinct for his defender to relax and watch. He'll pass the ball and relocate for an open jumper.





In one of the plays, to beat the trap, all Curry does is a simple give-and-go. A play you learn in elementary school. He gets trapped, releases the ball to Draymond Green and cuts to get it back with momentum to the bucket. That's it. While in Portland, Dame will pass out of the double and just stand 30ft from the bucket, taking himself out of the play.

Here you see the same situation with Dame. Instead of continuing the play and dashing to the corner, Dame stands under the bucket, clogging the paint. He allows McGee to guard both him and Whiteside. If he simply dashes to the corner with McGee's head turned, he will have a wide open corner 3. Also, guys are just standing around. If Melo simply sets a pick for CJ with Danny Green's head turned, he would have a open shot from top of the key.



This video shows the impact of how movement without the ball applies pressure on an opposing defense. Toronto's defense is really good. They are aware of Curry's ability to move and relocate to open spots. But here Gasol is so focused on denying Curry, he leaves Looney open for an easy dunk.

 

[Minstrel]

Here's a great article on how you can beat the aggressive high trap of Dame near midcourt. Of course Stotts isn't able to figure this out himself. This is something a coach should be able to recognize and adjust and coach his player. And the fact that the NBA is such a copycat league, it is even more egregious that Stotts hasn't tried this at all.

https://theathletic.com/2020741/202...llard-and-steph-curry-against-elite-defenses/

For those that don't have access to the article, the premise is both Dame and Steph Curry get trapped high out at midcourt. Both players do the right thing by passing the ball. However, the difference is what happens after the pass. Dame will usually just stand around and watch or isn't involved while the play unfolds. While Curry, continues to move without the ball, relocating to an open spot. He knows that once he get rids of the ball, it is a natural instinct for his defender to relax and watch. He'll pass the ball and relocate for an open jumper.





Here you see the same situation with Dame. Instead of continuing the play and dashing to the corner, Dame stands under the bucket, clogging the paint. He allows McGee to guard both him and Whiteside. If he simply dashes to the corner with McGee's head turned, he will have a wide open corner 3. Also, guys are just standing around. If Melo simply sets a pick for CJ with Danny Green's head turned, he would have a open shot from top of the key.



This video shows the impact of how movement without the ball applies pressure on an opposing defense. Toronto's defense is really good. They are aware of Curry's ability to move and relocate to open spots. But here Gasol is so focused on denying Curry, he leaves Looney open for an easy dunk.

And how do you know this is a Stotts thing, rather than a Lillard thing? I mentioned the same thing in the "Why can't we beat the trap" thread and I find it extremely unlikely that many of us thought of this but Stotts never has. I think it's far more likely that Dame just doesn't choose to play that way.