What Olshey has done (1 Viewer)

[Schilly]

It's not just about Aldridge, it's how he has conducted business from day one. From his first draft to this draft. To his free agent signings. To his lack of creativity. To his do his by default nature. It's very specific details in how he has conducted his job. I don't feel his is sold in this town himself which makes difficult to sell to others unless he has millions to give.

I just think there has been a lot of miscues since he took over. I feel he has been arrogant and stand offish in the process. And I all have to say is he better have a plan. I'm this close to writing off Mr. Allen and the Blazers. Allen in the end is responsible for all of this. It's the third rebuild in 15 years.

Interesting because I see it as completely opposite as you do. Taking Damian, and CJ was lacking in creativity, so was drafting Meyers. People criticized him las summer for picking up the options on CJ and Meyers but not for Robinson and Barton. I don't look at that as a mistake. Trading for Robinson and Lopez for peanuts sure lacked creativity. The Kaman signing was good too. Even the Afflalo trade at the time it was made was very good. I seem to remember many analysts saying the Afflalo trade made Portland a contender... till Wes got hurt. As far as rebuilds #1 was after the Rasheed Zbo era and at that time the franchise was in massive damage control mode, maybe us diehards didn't care but the general public did, and they are the ones that put butts in the seats. Rebuild #2 was called Roy retiring and the Oden fiasco, hardly fair to criticize a franchise for losing an All Star and a #1 overall at such young ages permanently and with no assets in return... the fact we were able to get to a 2nd round so quickly is frankly amazing. So now 2015 rebuild #3, our best player bolted on us after back to back 50+ win seasons... is that the franchises fault? Now of course we can sit back and assume things could have been handled differently, but I have a hard time taking that kind of leap of faith when I am not privy to deals that may or may or may not have been available. All I can do is look at the body of work, the reports the articles and when I look at all that I see a GM that has done a damn fine job.

Lamarcus left, period. We could have re-sign ROLO and Wes combined about $30mil a year, we could be capped out with that right now and maybe fighting for the 8th seed. Doing that would have been non-creative. Being creative and having the cajones to do it is doing exactly what Neil is doing. He is rolling the dice but in a way that's going to screw the team over if this guy or that guy doesn't pan out. What if Wes isn't the Iron man any more, we don't know that yet, but if he isn't Dallas is going to be passenger shelled out $70mil for him.

Yeah it sucks it's time to rebuild again, but I am not seeing how it could have been avoided.

 

[stampedehero]

We will be three seasons, OR MORE, away from being a playoff team. Not acceptable.

Lost 4 0f 5 Starters. Since Blake is out, could we be acceptable in two seasons??

 

[fumanchu]

I don't care if we suck. Lamarcus' Blazer team wasn't a contender. I like Olshey's quick rebuild. No half-assing it by bringing in decent vets to make it look like we are trying not to rebuild (Rod Strickland, Kenny Anderson, Gerald Wallace, Marcus Camby, Fatty Felton) that would still do no better than 44 wins. He brought in a bunch of young talent very quickly. All of the guys have upside, and several of them are capable of breaking out and being star players in a couple years. I think this team is going to be fun to see grow. There's no hood rats or shitty attitude players on the team. They are going to lose in the first year or two, but they aren't losers. If anything Golden State is a model of how quickly you can turn a team into winners.

 

[Blazers Roy]

imo the only good guys we have for the future are:

Starters:
C Plumlee
PF Nothing
SF " "
SG" "
PG Dame

Bench:
6th man: SG: CJ (i guess he can start if he dramatically improves his defense)
7th man PF Mayers
8th man SF Crabbe
Center or defensive PF to complete Mayers: maybe Vonleh, i don't think he'll make it
PG:Nothing

That's a lot of holes to fill and there's a lot of work to be done.

 

[Strenuus]

imo the only good guys we have for the future are:

Starters:
C Plumlee
PF Nothing
SF " "
SG" "
PG Dame

Bench:
6th man: SG: CJ (i guess he can start if he dramatically improves his defense)
7th man PF Mayers
8th man SF Crabbe
Center or defensive PF to complete Mayers: maybe Vonleh, i don't think he'll make it
PG:Nothing

That's a lot of holes to fill and there's a lot of work to be done.

Was his first name Oscar, by chance?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Was his first name Oscar, by chance?

I find it interesting that some like Blazers Roy think that Davis and Aminu don't count as "good guys for the future", when we had 2 starters named RoLo and Batum last year. Maybe if you did an analysis of those two starters vs. projected starters this year (including both last year's salary and this year's if we kept them) you might think differently.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Batum was not a legit starter last year. Rolo was not a legit starter for a contender who had to face Gasol\DJ\Howard.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I find it interesting that some like Blazers Roy think that Davis and Aminu don't count as "good guys for the future", when we had 2 starters named RoLo and Batum last year. Maybe if you did an analysis of those two starters vs. projected starters this year (including both last year's salary and this year's if we kept them) you might think differently.

Not likely. Not to go all "Marazul," but people who tend toward the "J" end of the Myers-Briggs scale are likely to make quick judgments of people/situations and then hold to those conclusions, often despite significant evidence to the contrary. If someone has already decided early on that Aminu and Davis are worthless, no amount of statistical analysis will convince them otherwise.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

In the Olshey interview recently, he brought up how the Clippers went about rebuilding after Brand left and how he learned from it. I think he will learn from this episode as well. You cannot win positioning a team for two drastically different situations.

To his credit, we have had one and a half exciting seasons of basketball since he took over. I like our direction alot better than most of the other teams trying to be relevant.

To compare, here are the teams I think Neil does a better job than:

Indiana, Sacramento, Detroit, Philly, NYK, LA Clippers and Lakers, Phoenix, Denver, Brooklyn, Utah, and New Orleans

Teams I think do a better job

SA, GSW, and Boston.

The rest of the league is debatable.

 

[Schilly]

And to add to that Charcoal Filtered, we haven't truly seen Neil unleashed until the day Batum was traded. Prior to that, Neil himself said it, his job has been centered around trying to convince Lamarcus to stay. During the press conference he said it's been 2 years of recruiting Lamarcus to Portland.

Riley didn't get fired for LeBron bailing on Miami.
Kupchak didn't get fired for Dwight leaving for Houston.
Van Gundy isn't getting fired for Monroe moving on to Milwaukee.

Sometimes you simply can't make guys stay somewhere no matter how hard you try. The funny thing is, if you listen to what Neil said in the press conference it all makes sense. Several people in here pointed out the same scenario and seasonings as to why things worked out the way they did, before Neil took the stand and explained it. Really it wasn't that hard to figure out as long as you kept the witch hunter Canzano mentality out of the equation.

 

[Natebishop3]

And to add to that Charcoal Filtered, we haven't truly seen Neil unleashed until the day Batum was traded. Prior to that, Neil himself said it, his job has been centered around trying to convince Lamarcus to stay. During the press conference he said it's been 2 years of recruiting Lamarcus to Portland.

Riley didn't get fired for LeBron bailing on Miami.
Kupchak didn't get fired for Dwight leaving for Houston.
Van Gundy isn't getting fired for Monroe moving on to Milwaukee.

Sometimes you simply can't make guys stay somewhere no matter how hard you try. The funny thing is, if you listen to what Neil said in the press conference it all makes sense. Several people in here pointed out the same scenario and seasonings as to why things worked out the way they did, before Neil took the stand and explained it. Really it wasn't that hard to figure out as long as you kept the witch hunter Canzano mentality out of the equation.

Yup. Neil had some big old handcuffs on him since day one, and those handcuffs were LaMarcus. Everything he did was in an effort to keep that giant diva happy.

Now we get to see Neil unleashed.

 

[Schilly]

Something I find interesting is those who are most gloomy and critical rarely offer a alternate solution that would have made them more content. The are quick to complain but if you ask then what could have been done differently they respond with crickets. It's like the Lamarcus situation, many say they wouldn't have let him get to free agency, but none offer a solution to what they would have done. I think in order to trade him we would have had to do so before the summer of 2013. After that this team was creeping way too close to title contention for that to have made much sense especially after Lamarcus' pledge last summer.

We made a play for Monroe and were a finalist there, Greg selected IMO a better situation, yes the Bucks are built better right now. We swung for Kanter but had now leverage or control of that. We don't know what caliber of player Wesley will be coming back so I'm not too upset about not giving him $70 million. So what has Neil done?

Plumlee >= Lopez
Davis > Freeland
Aminu > Batum
Henderson >= Injured Matthews

Then you look at Vonleh and he has more upside than any other prospect we had, because we had none, we were all in on the Lamarcus window.

 

[BrianFromWA]

and the left side of Schilly's chart made 28M last year and will make 42+Freeland this year. The left side will make 23M

 

[magnifier661]

Something I find interesting is those who are most gloomy and critical rarely offer a alternate solution that would have made them more content. The are quick to complain but if you ask then what could have been done differently they respond with crickets. It's like the Lamarcus situation, many say they wouldn't have let him get to free agency, but none offer a solution to what they would have done. I think in order to trade him we would have had to do so before the summer of 2013. After that this team was creeping way too close to title contention for that to have made much sense especially after Lamarcus' pledge last summer.

We made a play for Monroe and were a finalist there, Greg selected IMO a better situation, yes the Bucks are built better right now. We swung for Kanter but had now leverage or control of that. We don't know what caliber of player Wesley will be coming back so I'm not too upset about not giving him $70 million. So what has Neil done?

Plumlee >= Lopez
Davis > Freeland
Aminu > Batum
Henderson >= Injured Matthews

Then you look at Vonleh and he has more upside than any other prospect we had, because we had none, we were all in on the Lamarcus window.

He said it himself that Lopez, Matthews and Batum were part of the Aldridge package. He admitted that if Aldridge went "all in" they would have paid premium to bring back the entire gang. Fortunately this didn't happen (using 20/20 hindsight glasses). Neil openly admitted "we were just good enough Jay".

What does that tell us? Neil already conceded but was willing to keep everyone together because of what special thing they've accomplished together. But with Aldridge out, those other 3 role players didn't work. No sense paying them for production they've accomplished with playing along side one of the best PFs in the game.

And let's look back during games where Aldridge was injured or checked out. We absolutely sucked!!! We lived and died with Aldridge because those 3 players work within the Aldridge dynamic. I think once Olshey saw we couldn't win unless Aldridge was in the game made his decision even more valid.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Gee, I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that so little has BEEN good? This most recent implosion/rebuild is hardly unique. I'm sick of excuses. Even when they do get it right (54 wins and the 2nd round) they find some way to screw it all up.

The recent success of the Warriors just makes it worse, as it proves there IS hope...just not for us.

Just to pile on a bit. The warriors have done exactly Jack Shit in the entire lifetime of most of the posters here. Out of the blue, they win a championship - in a year when Durant was injured. I am sure that before last year, GS fans were pretty tired of excuses. Clips fans are pretty tired of excuses. Rockets fans, for sure. Bulls fans, just listen to Denny. Even fucking Lakers and Clips fans are tired of excuses, OKC fans too. In fact, I'm sure that fans of pretty much every team without LBJ or Tim Duncan on it has lots of fans that are tired of excuses.

Yawn.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'm just tired of mid-range jumpers.

 

[magnifier661]

I'm just tired of mid-range jumpers.

I would like a balance of all 3 shots (mid range 20%, paint 50% and 3 pointers 30%). It would be nice if we were efficient with all the above. That would field an unstoppable offensive force.

 

[tlongII]

Something I find interesting is those who are most gloomy and critical rarely offer a alternate solution that would have made them more content. The are quick to complain but if you ask then what could have been done differently they respond with crickets. It's like the Lamarcus situation, many say they wouldn't have let him get to free agency, but none offer a solution to what they would have done. I think in order to trade him we would have had to do so before the summer of 2013. After that this team was creeping way too close to title contention for that to have made much sense especially after Lamarcus' pledge last summer.

We made a play for Monroe and were a finalist there, Greg selected IMO a better situation, yes the Bucks are built better right now. We swung for Kanter but had now leverage or control of that. We don't know what caliber of player Wesley will be coming back so I'm not too upset about not giving him $70 million. So what has Neil done?

Plumlee >= Lopez
Davis > Freeland
Aminu > Batum
Henderson >= Injured Matthews

Then you look at Vonleh and he has more upside than any other prospect we had, because we had none, we were all in on the Lamarcus window.

You either get LaMarcus to re-sign or you get something in return for him. It's as simple as that. I know for a fact that there are a lot of pissed off season ticket holders right now. It is inexcusable to have a team that won 50+ games the last couple of seasons become a train wreck.

 

[Schilly]

Ok tlong, how in the he'll do you get something in return if he walks to a team that doesn't need to send something back to make it work. How Pissed would those season ticket holders have been if we had traded him for the package Cleveland sent to Minnesota last summer? I'm going to guess in the wake of last season's playoffs at least doubly Pissed. So who would you have traded Lamarcus for last summer or how about at this year's deadline? How would that have won over season ticket holders?

I'm a season ticket holder. I recognize that it's the nature of sports.

 

[tlongII]

Ok tlong, how in the he'll do you get something in return if he walks to a team that doesn't need to send something back to make it work. How Pissed would those season ticket holders have been if we had traded him for the package Cleveland sent to Minnesota last summer? I'm going to guess in the wake of last season's playoffs at least doubly Pissed. So who would you have traded Lamarcus for last summer or how about at this year's deadline? How would that have won over season ticket holders?

I'm a season ticket holder. I recognize that it's the nature of sports.

Fortunately that's not my job. I'm not the GM. It's my job to complain on message boards.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You either get LaMarcus to re-sign or you get something in return for him. It's as simple as that. I know for a fact that there are a lot of pissed off season ticket holders right now. It is inexcusable to have a team that won 50+ games the last couple of seasons become a train wreck.

"Yes, Blazer fans, I'm aware that we've built an excellent team, won 54 games and a playoff series last season, and are on pace to win our division title this year, but the fact is, we can't guarantee that Aldridge is going to re-sign this summer. You know the axiom--get your all-star to re-sign, or get something for him. We simply can't risk losing him for nothing; that would be inexcusable. So with that, we wish Lamarcus the best of luck in Miami, and now officially welcome your newest Portland Trailblazers--Luol Deng and Hassan Whiteside."

I'm sure that would have gone over wonderfully at the trade deadline.

 

[Schilly]

Come on Tlong, that's the best you got?

 

[RR7]

"Yes, Blazer fans, I'm aware that we've built an excellent team, won 54 games and a playoff series last season, and are on pace to win our division title this year, but the fact is, we can't guarantee that Aldridge is going to re-sign this summer. You know the axiom--get your all-star to re-sign, or get something for him. We simply can't risk losing him for nothing; that would be inexcusable. So with that, we wish Lamarcus the best of luck in Miami, and now officially welcome your newest Portland Trailblazers--Luol Deng and Hassan Whiteside."

I'm sure that would have gone over wonderfully at the trade deadline.

Right, to think that season ticket holders are pissed now, but they wouldn't have been if you broke up a 50 win team last offseason or at this past trade deadline

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Right, to think that season ticket holders are pissed now, but they wouldn't have been if you broke up a 50 win team last offseason or at this past trade deadline

But he lost Aldridge for nothing! That's inexcusable!!1!1!!!1!

 

[andalusian]

Fortunately that's not my job. I'm not the GM. It's my job to complain on message boards.

How does it pay?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

You either get LaMarcus to re-sign or you get something in return for him. It's as simple as that. I know for a fact that there are a lot of pissed off season ticket holders right now. It is inexcusable to have a team that won 50+ games the last couple of seasons become a train wreck.

Posts with the solution of "trade LaMarcus two years ago" are asinine. Posts with the solution of "convince LaMarcus to go to a team he doesn't want to go to because we might get something for him" are delusional.

Which one is this post?

 

[tlongII]

How does it pay?

The pay sucks, but the hours are good.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Not likely. Not to go all "Marazul," but people who tend toward the "J" end of the Myers-Briggs scale are likely to make quick judgments of people/situations and then hold to those conclusions, often despite significant evidence to the contrary. If someone has already decided early on that Aminu and Davis are worthless, no amount of statistical analysis will convince them otherwise.

Phooey.

Being a useful rotation player makes them neither "worthless" nor a future star. What the hell is wrong with just being honest?

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Fortunately that's not my job. I'm not the GM. It's my job to complain on message boards.

Big cop out, tlongII!! When exactly would you have pulled the trigger on a LMA trade rather than losing him? Keep in mind the shrinking value as he was closer and closer to actual free agency!! Who would have paid what? Olshey didn't stand a chance.

 

[Schilly]

Unfortunately every one is being honest, but people who tout themselves as Realists tend to fall on the side of pessimistic. I think it's a self preservation mode, "Expect little so I don't feel let down".