What Olshey has done

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riverman said:
Change of scenery, new coach, great fans, teammates that aren't divas, all star pt guard..good locker room chemistry. Henderson has had 6 coaches since he's been in Charlotte
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Just to reiterate, I'm not saying these guys stink or are over-paid. I just can't see any of them making the jump from solid to star...and that is what we need.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Wiz, it's the "huge potential" part I can't buy into. Davis, Aminu, and Henderson are nice, fairly young rotation guys. WYSIWYG. Plumlee is a nice piece, but he is more of a RoLo level supporting player. Harkless had his chance with a bad team and played his way out of the rotation. I know we all want to assume that Charlotte are idiots and Vonleh is a future stud - but where is the evidence?

Our best hope is that what we saw from CJ and Leonard late last season is real. Plumlee is the only one of the new guys I can see actually being part of our future.
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I hear what you're saying, but...
1) I guess I'm more optimistic than you (or perhaps just more of a homer)
2) You ignored the HUMONGOUS cap space. That alone bumps us up from big to huge, IMHO. No, I don't think we're getting Kevin Durant. However, if Durant wanted to go to, for example, Dallas (he's went to school in TX) and Dallas wants needs to shed capspace, then we trade one of our players, e.g. Hendo, and cap space for Chandler Parsons. Maybe you don't like him either?!? Regardless, good things are possible, and our GM is Mr. ValueTown.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Here's what NO has done...

Out:
  • LMA, Wounded Wes, Batum, Rolo
  • Dame, CJ, Biebs, Crabbe
  • scrubs past their prime.
  • a shit load of 15-16 salary, and over the cap, maybe even luxury tax for years.
  • Average age: middle aged, potential reached
  • Pieces that fit well together, roles well established.
  • We would've added a mid-level guy to our crappy bench

In:
  • Aminu, Davis, Henderson, Plumlee, Vonleh
  • An improved from last year Dame, Biebs, CJ, Crabbe
  • scrubs who could really become something
  • boat load of cap space.
  • Average age: young, huge potential
  • Pieces that don't quite fit yet, roles unsure

p.s. No, AA is not worth talking about. I think he would have left the team regardless, and he sucked while he was here.
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Good points. I'm all for building young pieces around Lillard. This is where I'm really going to watch Stotts during the season especially when it hits the fan. Does he adjust the lineup or does he stay with the same lineup that's not working like what happened against the Grizz? Questions to be answered. Looking forward to the season already.
 
The team is situated today as if we've been rebuilding / retooling for 2-3 years. We have NO long un-desirable contracts to wait to expire, we have many young former lottery picks. Now, we wait to see if any of them break out and become real players.

I will bet on Lillard, McCollum, Davis to do this. I have hopes for many others.
 
I look at Olshey's summer this way: this summer he was asked to be the hatchet man.

Compared to the last hatchet man we had (John Nash), Olshey's done much MUCH better. We retained the young talent we'd drafted before that didn't suck and was Dame's age. He's signed young players who were undervalued by their previous team and who will benefit from a strong point guard (if Washington or the Clippers had signed Plumlee, Ed Davis, and Vonleh, we would have been PISSED because they would have all blossomed under Wall or Paul).

We've got a ton of cap space, a couple of vets to babysit, and a wait-to-see attitude. We managed to lock in our best player for 6 years (3 for the rebuild and 3 for the deep playoff run), with the means to find him the optimal Robin based on how he's going to play best (which we'll know more about next year).

I'm excited because, unlike the Telfair rebuild, we have players who don't suck and aren't old. We're finally doing it (which is exciting) and doing it right (all at once, young, but with talent).
 
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Lillard is the only proven player on the team. The rest of them might suck, or they might not suck. It's far too early to tell. The biggest problem I see right now is a lack of shooting skills and poor interior defense. I hope I'm wrong.
 
tlongII said:
Lillard is the only proven player on the team. The rest of them might suck, or they might not suck. It's far too early to tell. The biggest problem I see right now is a lack of shooting skills and poor interior defense. I hope I'm wrong.
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You could always become a Spurs fan :devilwink:
 
tlongII said:
Lillard is the only proven player on the team. The rest of them might suck, or they might not suck. It's far too early to tell. The biggest problem I see right now is a lack of shooting skills and poor interior defense. I hope I'm wrong.
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I think you're right but we also have two or three years to fix these problems and other smaller ones before Lillard hits his prime and we go for a big run.
 
Olshey has taken this youth movement too far.

By the time this group of kids is ready to compete in the playoffs, Olshey will be so old, he will be dribbling more the team.
 
Lillard is not the only proven player on this team. To me proven players are guys who have been in the league for more than a couple of years and have played consistent minutes. Let's take a look at what we have then.

Aminu 5 seasons 377g 174gs (46% games started) 22.3mpg verdict: proven
Henderson 6 seasons 391g 292gs (75% games started) 27.5mpg verdict: proven
Davis 6 seasons 354g 82gs (23% started) 21.4mpg verdict: proven
Plumlee 2 seasons 152g 67vs (44% started) 19.9mpg verdict: proven
Harkless 3 seasons 201g 104gs (52% started) 22.9mpg verdict: proven as capable

So there we have 5 added guys who while they aren't stars are all proven in the sense that the play consistent and in the cases of all 5 have respectable number of starts. I don't care that they were for bad teams either. They have proven that they belong in the league. In the case of Portland we are adding these guys as depth to make a solid foundation.

So yes Vonleh isn't proven but he has a ton of potential. We didn't have a lotto pick last year so Neil traded for one for the building process.

So I think the blanket theory of we have added unproven players tells me people really don't pay attention to the rest of the league much.
 
Schilly said:
Lillard is not the only proven player on this team. To me proven players are guys who have been in the league for more than a couple of years and have played consistent minutes. Let's take a look at what we have then.

Aminu 5 seasons 377g 174gs (46% games started) 22.3mpg verdict: proven
Henderson 6 seasons 391g 292gs (75% games started) 27.5mpg verdict: proven
Davis 6 seasons 354g 82gs (23% started) 21.4mpg verdict: proven
Plumlee 2 seasons 152g 67vs (44% started) 19.9mpg verdict: proven
Harkless 3 seasons 201g 104gs (52% started) 22.9mpg verdict: proven as capable

So there we have 5 added guys who while they aren't stars are all proven in the sense that the play consistent and in the cases of all 5 have respectable number of starts. I don't care that they were for bad teams either. They have proven that they belong in the league. In the case of Portland we are adding these guys as depth to make a solid foundation.

So yes Vonleh isn't proven but he has a ton of potential. We didn't have a lotto pick last year so Neil traded for one for the building process.

So I think the blanket theory of we have added unproven players tells me people really don't pay attention to the rest of the league much.
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I agree with all of those except Harkless, since his minutes, his per-minute-production, and his PER have decreased every year.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I agree with all of those except Harkless, since his minutes, his per-minute-production, and his PER have decreased every year.
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I had originally posted his verdict as proven as capable but concerns about last year. Very interesting situation.
 
oldmangrouch said:
One interesting footnote.

Affalo was a jerk. Kanter was considered a headcase in Utah. Vonleh and Harkless lost the confidence of their prior coaches. Is this part of Olshey's "type"?
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vonleh was injured and started the season very late, similar to cj's rookie season. it's almost impossible to play catch-up at that point, so that's an unfair analysis of vonleh for sure.
 
Schilly said:
Lillard is not the only proven player on this team. To me proven players are guys who have been in the league for more than a couple of years and have played consistent minutes. Let's take a look at what we have then.

Aminu 5 seasons 377g 174gs (46% games started) 22.3mpg verdict: proven
Henderson 6 seasons 391g 292gs (75% games started) 27.5mpg verdict: proven
Davis 6 seasons 354g 82gs (23% started) 21.4mpg verdict: proven
Plumlee 2 seasons 152g 67vs (44% started) 19.9mpg verdict: proven
Harkless 3 seasons 201g 104gs (52% started) 22.9mpg verdict: proven as capable

So there we have 5 added guys who while they aren't stars are all proven in the sense that the play consistent and in the cases of all 5 have respectable number of starts. I don't care that they were for bad teams either. They have proven that they belong in the league. In the case of Portland we are adding these guys as depth to make a solid foundation.

So yes Vonleh isn't proven but he has a ton of potential. We didn't have a lotto pick last year so Neil traded for one for the building process.

So I think the blanket theory of we have added unproven players tells me people really don't pay attention to the rest of the league much.
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If they played for bad teams they are unproven. Especially when they weren't even "go to" players on bad teams.
 
He just forced the Thunder to give up PJ3 for nothing but cap space.
 
Natebishop3 said:
He just forced the Thunder to give up PJ3 for nothing but cap space.
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False.

If Kanter had accepted the Thunders highest offer of $62 million instead of holding out for the Blazers offer of $70 million, the Thunder still would need to dump PJ3 to get under the luxury tax threshold.
 
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oldfisherman said:
False.

If Kanter had accepted the Thunders highest offer of $62 million instead of holding out for the Blazers offer of $70 million, the Thunder still would need to dump PJ3 to get under the luxury tax threshold.
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You do realize that the $8 million difference is more than just $8 million, right?

These incremental ranges go from a $1.50/$1 dollar ratio from teams up to $5 million over, up to $3.75-$1 for teams between $20-$25 million over and increasing by an extra $.50 for every extra $5 million over that.
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http://www.sbnation.com/2013/11/21/5126774/nba-luxury-tax-2013-repeater-chicago-bulls
 
Natebishop3 said:
You do realize that the $8 million difference is more than just $8 million, right?



http://www.sbnation.com/2013/11/21/5126774/nba-luxury-tax-2013-repeater-chicago-bulls
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You do realize the difference between what the Thunder offered and what the Blazers offered was only $2 million per season, not $8 million per season?

The Thunder had to dump PJ3 to reduce their luxury tax once they committed to re-signing their RFA. They still need to dump more players to get under the luxury tax threshold.
 
tlongII said:
Lillard is the only proven player on the team. The rest of them might suck, or they might not suck. It's far too early to tell. The biggest problem I see right now is a lack of shooting skills and poor interior defense. I hope I'm wrong.
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So, you're saying that it is stupid to draft players - they're unproven!
Don't sign players in FA with 3 or less years in the league - they're unproven!
Stick with mediocre vets to try to hang on to what you've got.

Wait, I've got it. Mark Cuban has hacked tlongs account!
 
Wizard Mentor said:
So, you're saying that it is stupid to draft players - they're unproven!
Don't sign players in FA with 3 or less years in the league - they're unproven!
Stick with mediocre vets to try to hang on to what you've got.

Wait, I've got it. Mark Cuban has hacked tlongs account!
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Not saying that at all, but I'm sure you know that. I like drafting players that have a chance to be stars. We had no 1st round draft picks this year. I like signing FA's that can be a difference maker for your team. The FA's we've signed are young, but have shown no more than journeyman ability to date.
 
tlongII said:
Not saying that at all, but I'm sure you know that. I like drafting players that have a chance to be stars. We had no 1st round draft picks this year. I like signing FA's that can be a difference maker for your team. The FA's we've signed are young, but have shown no more than journeyman ability to date.
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but, but, but they're unproven....
If you win 50+ games, you are not in position to draft anyone with much of a chance to be a star.
We swung for 2 difference makers in FA and struck out. Now what?
You've got to give something to get something. Neil has obtained players with potential without giving up much.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
but, but, but they're unproven....
If you win 50+ games, you are not in position to draft anyone with much of a chance to be a star.
We swung for 2 difference makers in FA and struck out. Now what?
You've got to give something to get something. Neil has obtained players with potential without giving up much.
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Without giving up much? You mean like 80% of our starting lineup?
 
tlongII said:
Without giving up much? You mean like 80% of our starting lineup?
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Oh, so I guess we shoulda maxed Wes, signed Lopez for $13M, then barely miss the playoffs for the next 5 years? We didn't give them up, we let them decide on accepting big contracts. And how did we give up on LMA, if he's the one who decided to leave?
 
BonesJones said:
Oh, so I guess we shoulda maxed Wes, signed Lopez for $13M, then barely miss the playoffs for the next 5 years? We didn't give them up, we let them decide on accepting big contracts. And how did we give up on LMA, if he's the one who decided to leave?
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You said Neil signed promising players without giving up much. Do you think he would have signed those guys with Wes, Lopez, and Batum still here?
 
tlongII said:
You said Neil signed promising players without giving up much. Do you think he would have signed those guys with Wes, Lopez, and Batum still here?
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No

They were gone soon as Aldridge decided to go to SA.

Olshey stated it was up to Aldridge if they were bringing back Wes, Lopez, and Batum.

They were history anyway without Aldridge
 
tlongII said:
You said Neil signed promising players without giving up much. Do you think he would have signed those guys with Wes, Lopez, and Batum still here?
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I'm not the one who said that. He wouldn't have, but he still didn't give anyone up like it's a bad thing he let those guys go.
 
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