What to do at SF (post-TPE)

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e_blazer said:
I like that idea, too. More of a SG, but certainly able to play at SF.
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That's the reason I like him. I think it'd be a nice switch to have someone forward sized with guard skills. And he's simply a much better shooter than Oubre.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
That's the reason I like him. I think it'd be a nice switch to have someone forward sized with guard skills. And he's simply a much better shooter than Oubre.
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Yeah, kind of like if we had Will Barton or Allen Crabbe. ;)
 
Propagandist said:
Cool website. I'm a little confused by that section though. Virtually everywhere else Chief looks awesome. For example: The top stat. +222 Net Pts, 58.2% winning percentage, etc.
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The winning percentage is because he plays with our starters.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The winning percentage is because he plays with our starters.
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Aha. On second look, I get it. This doesn't make Chief's on-ball defense look very good, does it? That being said, it is his "help" defense and effort that make the biggest impact, I'd argue. Although these numbers leave things pretty open for debate...
 
Propagandist said:
Aha. On second look, I get it. This doesn't make Chief's on-ball defense look very good, does it? That being said, it is his "help" defense and effort that make the biggest impact, I'd argue. Although these numbers leave things pretty open for debate...
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Honestly, I'm not the best stat person around here. I take things at face value, rather than analyze them like Brianfromwa or BNM.

With that said, I think Aminu's PER is roughly similar between the two positions, but his length is going to be much more oppressive against a small forward than it would be a power forward.
 
Propagandist said:
Aha. On second look, I get it. This doesn't make Chief's on-ball defense look very good, does it? That being said, it is his "help" defense and effort that make the biggest impact, I'd argue. Although these numbers leave things pretty open for debate...
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I personally I'm a little skeptical of some of the stats over at 82games. Especially when it they assign & compare positions.

With the way the NBA is being played (and defended), there is rarely a true position battle (ie - PF vs PF) anymore.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Honestly, I'm not the best stat person around here. I take things at face value, rather than analyze them like Brianfromwa or BNM.

With that said, I think Aminu's PER is roughly similar between the two positions, but his length is going to be much more oppressive against a small forward than it would be a power forward.
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Agreed. With the current/past roster, Aminu was the best PF we had on the team. And having him and Harkless being able to easily switch was an advantage. But, I think the Blazers would be much better having a true PF who could cover out to the arc, and having Aminu or Harkless play their best position, which would be SF. Unfortunately, unless Leonard or Swanigan step up big time, Aminu is still likely our best PF and a top three rotation big out of necessity.
 
its the same clusterfuck as last year at the SF/PF spot.

and we've tried to fix SF by adding more guards and tbh i dunno what has happened at PF, but it feels like nothing.

its still a backcourt wing n a prayer on performance and the occasional ball into nurk.

if cj and/or dame are off on scoring, or just having another under performing night on D, then we are still in trouble exactly like we were last year.

good news is we have lost our main rebounding force and effort guy in the paint, so there is even less reason to look outside the backcourt for any measure of success.
 
yuyuza1 said:
He's a great value for them. If they're desperate to dump someone, not sure he'd be the guy. We'd have to send value to get him.


He's owed as much as ET this upcoming season and will definitely pick up his option for the year after. Not sure he's an upgrade.
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I would only trade for Bazemore if Turner was part of the trade.
 
I still believe a combo of Harkless/Aminu is good enough for SF, if we had a real PF.

Still wishing we could do something like (in January 2019), cj + ET for Love + Hill.

Rotation:
PG: Hill; WB4; Curry
SG: Dame; Trent; Stauskas; Simons
SF: Harkless; Aminu
PF: Love; Collins
C: Nurkic: Collins

With the longer term plan of replacing Hill with Trent, WB4 or Simons down the road. That lineup to me would be a big improvement, only has one non-defensive player on the court at a given time, and lets Collins develop into a starter down the road. It also lets you compete now with Dame/Hill/Aminu/Love/Nurkic, but doesn't sacrifice the future Simons/Trent/Harkless/Collins/Nurkic.
 
Reep said:
I still believe a combo of Harkless/Aminu is good enough for SF, if we had a real PF.

Still wishing we could do something like (in January 2019), cj + ET for Love + Hill.

Rotation:
PG: Hill; WB4; Curry
SG: Dame; Trent; Stauskas; Simons
SF: Harkless; Aminu
PF: Love; Collins
C: Nurkic: Collins

With the longer term plan of replacing Hill with Trent, WB4 or Simons down the road. That lineup to me would be a big improvement, only has one non-defensive player on the court at a given time, and lets Collins develop into a starter down the road. It also lets you compete now with Dame/Hill/Aminu/Love/Nurkic, but doesn't sacrifice the future Simons/Trent/Harkless/Collins/Nurkic.
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Bones is that you?
 
Reep said:
I still believe a combo of Harkless/Aminu is good enough for SF, if we had a real PF.

Still wishing we could do something like (in January 2019), cj + ET for Love + Hill.

Rotation:
PG: Hill; WB4; Curry
SG: Dame; Trent; Stauskas; Simons
SF: Harkless; Aminu
PF: Love; Collins
C: Nurkic: Collins

With the longer term plan of replacing Hill with Trent, WB4 or Simons down the road. That lineup to me would be a big improvement, only has one non-defensive player on the court at a given time, and lets Collins develop into a starter down the road. It also lets you compete now with Dame/Hill/Aminu/Love/Nurkic, but doesn't sacrifice the future Simons/Trent/Harkless/Collins/Nurkic.
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Moving Dame off the ball is asking for a problem when there isn't one. Don't think this trade makes us better at all.

CJ > Love, especially when you consider the contracts
ET > Hill on the floor.

OK, you get a year off of ET's contract, but not at the price of downgrading from CJ to a suddenly overpaid Love. Look at what LAC got for Blake-- that's about what Love should be worth.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Moving Dame off the ball is asking for a problem when there isn't one. Don't think this trade makes us better at all.

CJ > Love, especially when you consider the contracts
ET > Hill on the floor.

OK, you get a year off of ET's contract, but not at the price of downgrading from CJ to a suddenly overpaid Love. Look at what LAC got for Blake-- that's about what Love should be worth.
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We will just have to disagree on some of this. In our offense, I'm guessing 9/10 would see Hill as a better fit than ET. I don't disagree that Love is overpaid, but that is why you exchange ET in the trade.

I believe Love/Hill is a better fit for our current roster than CJ/ET. This is just a best guess and nobody knows how these will really fit.

I see us right now as having three problems: 1) poor guard defense in the starting unit; 2) not enough bigs/PFs; 3) too many non-point guards. This trade would help that, but does come with some risk. If we don't gamble a bit, we can likely count on first round exits for a while in a retooled West.
 
Reep said:
We will just have to disagree on some of this. In our offense, I'm guessing 9/10 would see Hill as a better fit than ET. I don't disagree that Love is overpaid, but that is why you exchange ET in the trade.

I believe Love/Hill is a better fit for our current roster than CJ/ET. This is just a best guess and nobody knows how these will really fit.

I see us right now as having three problems: 1) poor guard defense in the starting unit; 2) not enough bigs/PFs; 3) too many non-point guards. This trade would help that, but does come with some risk. If we don't gamble a bit, we can likely count on first round exits for a while in a retooled West.
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Dame is one of the best scorers and playmakers on the pick and roll in the league. He also is a relatively low turnover guy when you consider his usage. Why would you want to take the ball out of his hands? And in the process of improving our guard defense, you've made our defense up front much worse by substituting Aminu for Love. You think Love can switch onto wings and guards like Aminu does?

Still feel like you're creating more problems than you're solving.

I'm all for trading CJ and making moves-- just not something like this. Jimmy Butler? Sure I'll take that risk.
 
dviss1 said:
You're talking about spending time in the paint and using rebounding as the stat.

Bones is talking about offensive post ups.

Apples/oranges
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We addressed that already....the conversation was about turnovers...I said Chief will get his mostly from swipes in the paint...not that he gets many ..but that he actually doesn't get many dribbling or passing....somehow it became something else..the discussion was aimed at Torturedblazerfans comment that Chief should never dribble....I used no stats in my comment...just observations
 
yuyuza1 said:
Dame is one of the best scorers and playmakers on the pick and roll in the league. He also is a relatively low turnover guy when you consider his usage. Why would you want to take the ball out of his hands? And in the process of improving our guard defense, you've made our defense up front much worse by substituting Aminu for Love. You think Love can switch onto wings and guards like Aminu does?

Still feel like you're creating more problems than you're solving.

I'm all for trading CJ and making moves-- just not something like this. Jimmy Butler? Sure I'll take that risk.
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Why do you think I want to take the ball out of Dame's hands. I never said that. I would just pair him with Hill, who is an elite defender and can hit the three. And Hill would be a short term plan until one of the many other guards we have could take his place.
 
Reep said:
Why do you think I want to take the ball out of Dame's hands. I never said that. I would just pair him with Hill, who is an elite defender and can hit the three. And Hill would be a short term plan until one of the many other guards we have could take his place.
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I don’t think it’s about taking the ball out of Dames hands. It’s about having other options to run the offense, and get others involved at least from my perspective.
 
Reep said:
I still believe a combo of Harkless/Aminu is good enough for SF, if we had a real PF.
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I agree we could use another PF, but I think Collins is a real PF.

I also agree that a Love/Nurk combo would allow us to get away with a less offensively creative SF like Hark/Aminu, but that is not looking possible.

However a Nurk/Collins duo is better defensively than a Nurk /Love duo, so I think we are better off starting two bigs along with Harkless. (and his 41% 3 point shooting) and go to a 3 guard line up when needed. Bring Aminu off the bench to defend certain players regardless of position.

There will be growing pains for sure, but a Collins/ Nurk tandem is a good defensive front court. Now we have to hope that either Nick, Trent, or Jake can step up and offer outside shooting off the bench at SF.

Baldwin and Curry will come off the bench in the back court.

Not sure where ET fits in other than I know he can defend certain physical wings....and probably some stretch 4's who's sole offensive purpose is to camp out at the 3 pt line in order to spread the floor. Might as well go small against those lineups and get another ball handler in there. But I definitely do not want to see him used as the back up PG. Baldwin is better in that role.
 
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Pinwheel1 said:
I agree we could use another PF, but I think Collins is a real PF.

I also agree that a Love/Nurk combo would allow us to get away with a less offensively creative SF like Hark/Aminu, but that is not looking possible.

However a Nurk/Collins duo is better defensively than a Nurk /Love duo, so I think we are better off starting two bigs along with Harkless. (and his 41% 3 point shooting) and go to a 3 guard line up when needed. Bring Aminu off the bench to defend certain players regardless of position.

There will be growing pains for sure, but a Collins/ Nurk tandem is a good defensive front court. Now we have to hope that either Nick, Trent, or Jake can step up and offer outside shooting off the bench at SF.

Baldwin and Curry will come off the bench in the back court.

Not sure where ET fits in other than I know he can defend certain physical wings....and probably some stretch 4's who's sole offensive purpose is to camp out at the 3 pt line in order to spread the floor. Might as well go small against those lineups and get another ball handler in there. But I definitely do not want to see him used as the back up PG. Baldwin is better in that role.
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What we need at a minimum is to trade ET for a backup PF/C.
 
It's important to recognize that Meyers is not a power forward. He has never been a power forward, and he never WILL BE a power forward. He's a center. He's built like a center. He's slow... like a center.... and he plays by far his best ball as a center. Case closed.

I also think that Biggie is a center, for much the same reasons.
 
blue9 said:
He's a slightly above average defender (if we're being generous) who can guard SF/PF, and doesn't get totally wrecked when he has to switch onto a PG/SG.
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1.9DBPM.
 
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Pinwheel1 said:
I agree we could use another PF, but I think Collins is a real PF.

I also agree that a Love/Nurk combo would allow us to get away with a less offensively creative SF like Hark/Aminu, but that is not looking possible.

However a Nurk/Collins duo is better defensively than a Nurk /Love duo, so I think we are better off starting two bigs along with Harkless. (and his 41% 3 point shooting) and go to a 3 guard line up when needed. Bring Aminu off the bench to defend certain players regardless of position.

There will be growing pains for sure, but a Collins/ Nurk tandem is a good defensive front court. Now we have to hope that either Nick, Trent, or Jake can step up and offer outside shooting off the bench at SF.

Baldwin and Curry will come off the bench in the back court.

Not sure where ET fits in other than I know he can defend certain physical wings....and probably some stretch 4's who's sole offensive purpose is to camp out at the 3 pt line in order to spread the floor. Might as well go small against those lineups and get another ball handler in there. But I definitely do not want to see him used as the back up PG. Baldwin is better in that role.
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I have much more hope in Jake than Nik. Stauskas shouldn't be in the league. One year shooting over 36% from three, and is below average in everything else.
 
riverman said:
We addressed that already....the conversation was about turnovers...I said Chief will get his mostly from swipes in the paint...not that he gets many ..but that he actually doesn't get many dribbling or passing....somehow it became something else..the discussion was aimed at Torturedblazerfans comment that Chief should never dribble....I used no stats in my comment...just observations
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Stats say Aminu has more passing TOs than Harkless, at a higher rate per minute.

Chief shouldnt dribble either. It hardly results in anything positive except for (if were lucky) him handing the ball off to a guard when the adventure finally ends. He doesn't regularly produce positive results out of it, and I think you're overstating how much he turns over the ball "because he got a rebound".

You rebound, you chin it. Don't bring it down so it can get stolen. If you chin in, there's really no way the ball gets stripped regularly. So either Aminu needs to learn how to chin the ball or thats an overstatement.
 
BonesJones said:
Stats say Aminu has more passing TOs than Harkless, at a higher rate per minute.

Chief shouldnt dribble either. It hardly results in anything positive except for (if were lucky) him handing the ball off to a guard when the adventure finally ends. He doesn't regularly produce positive results out of it, and I think you're overstating how much he turns over the ball "because he got a rebound".

You rebound, you chin it. Don't bring it down so it can get stolen. If you chin in, there's really no way the ball gets stripped regularly. So either Aminu needs to learn how to chin the ball or thats an overstatement.
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The only dribbling he should do is one dribble off of a show-n-go.
 
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