What would it take for Neil to completely blow up the team?

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B-Roy said:
Someone quoted me (was it you?) awhile back saying we never conveyed the pick we traded to Orlando in the Jake Layman deal. Did you get that pick confused with this one? Both were top 55 protected.
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B-Roy said:
Well, top 55 protected picks CAN convey. The Blazers just conveyed one this past year for the one they gave in the Layman trade. So here’s to hoping Atlanta takes off!
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hoopsjock said:
That 2nd round pick that conveyed last year wasn't protected only the one that we owe this year. Your point that it would've conveyed anyway still stands though.
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I'm failing to see where I'm confused here? You're the one that thought it was protected.
 

Thanks. Having watched that, I think you’re probably right that the only way they sign a buyout guy is if there’s an injury.
 
e_blazer said:
Thanks. Having watched that, I think you’re probably right that the only way they sign a buyout guy is if there’s an injury.
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Yeah, I wanted to believe him that they traded Skal "to have more healthy bodies" but that doesn't appear to be the case.
 
No chance in hell the Sixers trade Simmons. I think they are more likely to trade Embiid with his injuries.

I think finding a way to do Richardson+Thybull for CJ might benefit both teams, but we'll still have a pedestrian team.
 
wizenheimer said:
Jody Allen only has a fraction of the wealth that her brother had because of dedicated trusts, his will, and inheritance taxes

besides that, if she's worth something like 5-10B right now, burning thru 1.25M would be the equivalent of taking a 100 dollar bill out of your wallet and tearing it into little pieces. You'd need a good reason for it and adding maybe an extra win to an 8th seed team is not a good reason. I mean, right now would you pay 100 dollars for the Blazers to end up at 44 wins instead of 43, knowing there was no guarantee you'd even see that extra win?
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1.25 million is about a thousandth of the value (ie net worth) of the team. It's insignificant.

If that one player can even give you an outside shot at two home playoff games and the revenue gained from that, it's worth it. There was clearly more to our deadline moves than meet the eye. Neil isn't THAT stupid, and I don't think Jody is that bad of a business woman either.

As I posted yesterday, I think we had more deals lined up to get completely under the tax threshold that fell through. My guess was it had to do with Nurk's setback.
 
Neil O. Shyster said:
No need to blow up team... just trade CJ
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Then I guess the question for you, Mr. Shyster, is what do you think it would take for the real Neil to actually be willing to deal CJ?
 
Neil Olshey is not going to blow it up. He has the injury excuse in his pocket and has also won Jody's confidence.

The Blazers will barely miss or make the playoffs, get knocked out in the first round if we do...probably swept and Neil will spin it and pull the injury card out and say we were never going to win this year and its al about next season and we have the pieces to do it
 
Chris Craig said:
Neil Olshey is not going to blow it up. He has the injury excuse in his pocket and has also won Jody's confidence.

The Blazers will barely miss or make the playoffs, get knocked out in the first round if we do...probably swept and Neil will spin it and pull the injury card out and say we were never going to win this year and its al about next season and we have the pieces to do it
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The irony of the last 5-6 years is that it somewhat makes me appreciate the Houston Rockets. At least they go for it, even if there is a catastrophic risk of failure.

Even this most recent small ball shit. Before this trade I would have said there's no chance they were ever winning the title. At least now, they've created a wrinkle of opportunity, even if they will look completely clueless on some nights.
 
illmatic99 said:
1.25 million is about a thousandth of the value (ie net worth) of the team. It's insignificant.

If that one player can even give you an outside shot at two home playoff games and the revenue gained from that, it's worth it. There was clearly more to our deadline moves than meet the eye. Neil isn't THAT stupid, and I don't think Jody is that bad of a business woman either.

As I posted yesterday, I think we had more deals lined up to get completely under the tax threshold that fell through. My guess was it had to do with Nurk's setback.
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is 100-200 dollars insignificant to you? It's all relative and the flaw in your logic is that JA wanted 2.7M in savings. So if 2.7M is significant to her, and it apparently was unless Olshey is lying, then 1.25M would be significant as well

I can't believe you guys are even trying to argue that whatever Portland is saving in payroll and tax was "insignificant" to JA or the organization; that's not your call. That's why Skal was traded away, and Portland paid 1.9M to do so. You guys obviously don't like it but to argue that 1.25M doesn't matter to JA is kind of crazy given the facts
 
B-Roy said:
The irony of the last 5-6 years is that it somewhat makes me appreciate the Houston Rockets. At least they go for it, even if there is a catastrophic risk of failure.

Even this most recent small ball shit. Before this trade I would have said there's no chance they were ever winning the title. At least now, they've created a wrinkle of opportunity, even if they will look completely clueless on some nights.
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Isn't not trading Whiteside going for it? Especially if the Blazers resign him along with Melo, Ariza, etc and bring it back?
 
illmatic99 said:
Would missing the playoffs do it, or will they fall back on the injuries as a crutch to simply write off the year? For me, blowing up = firing the coach, moving CJ, overhauling around Dame again.

I'm getting serious Toronto pre-Kawhi vibes this season. The contract extensions are a minor hurdle, but I still don't believe CJ is totally immovable, nor do I believe Jody would take the hit with Terry's contract. We'd obviously need a willing trade partner for CJ in the summer, and Philly is sitting right there as a possibility if they burn out in the playoffs. I'd give up every non-Dame player on the team for Simmons.

What do you think it would take for Neil to make drastic changes? Would sneaking in and taking a sweep at the hands of Lebron do it?
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Fun topic, but I really wish you'd define "Blowing it Up".
I don't consider trading CJ as blowing it up - I think is probably more along the lines of prudent - especially with our cap situation.

Outside of CJ, no one makes a lot of $$$. So trading them doesn't make sense unless they're very old - we have none of those who aren't FAs (outside of Ariza, but his contract is reasonable).

We're actually pre-"blown up" anyway:
Collins, Simons, Trent, and Little (and Gabriel) are 22 or under. Nurk is 25. These are all potential rotation players, with Nurk and Collins as established starters.

Let's suppose we traded CJ for nothing basketball-wise, and let go Carmelo and Whiteside:
Dame - Ant
Hood - Trent
Ariza - Little
Collins - X (Gabriel?)
Nurk

Is that blowing things up? Maybe, but it's a HELL of a lot better defensive team than what we're playing with now, and should put us way under the cap, too.
 
wizenheimer said:
is 100-200 dollars insignificant to you? It's all relative and the flaw in your logic is that JA wanted 2.7M in savings. So if 2.7M is significant to her, and it apparently was unless Olshey is lying, then 1.25M would be significant as well

I can't believe you guys are even trying to argue that whatever Portland is saving in payroll and tax was "insignificant" to JA or the organization; that's not your call. That's why Skal was traded away, and Portland paid 1.9M to do so. You guys obviously don't like it but to argue that 1.25M doesn't matter to JA is kind of crazy given the facts
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But you don't know that they will lose that money this year, so until we do it's not really the same as having to "give up" money. They didn't lose money last year and the value of the franchise went up again.

I really hate when people try to equate sports and entertainment businesses to normal ordinary life situations.
 
Chris Craig said:
Isn't not trading Whiteside going for it? Especially if the Blazers resign him along with Melo, Ariza, etc and bring it back?
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Does it materially change the way the blazers play? I kind of doubt it. The Rockets have iterated multiple times, realizing they need to strike while the iron is not (While Harden is in his prime), first by getting rid of Howard and bringing in Paul, then by going for Westbrook, and now by ditching the center position completely.

The Blazers have only done so once, and it was out of necessity when Aldridge decided to leave. All of Olshey's moves lead me to believe that he is ultimately too risk averse to do anything truly drastic.
 
hoopsjock said:
But you don't know that they will lose that money this year, so until we do it's not really the same as having to "give up" money. They didn't lose money last year and the value of the franchise went up again.

I really hate when people try to equate sports and entertainment businesses to normal ordinary life situations.
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I'm sorry...that doesn't make any sense. JA is a billionaire who wanted to save a couple million dollars. It doesn't matter if Portland loses or makes money...she has to know right now which it will be, and she still wanted to pocket that cash. That's my only point...it's clear as a bell she wanted that money. You guys arguing the money doesn't matter, over and over, just isn't rational at this point given what we know. It kind of looks like you guys not wanting to let go of the 'they should have traded Whiteside' argument.

You might be right that it's short-sighted. It very well may be. But what is also likely is that a signing right now, or later, isn't going to make any difference. They won't be getting an Ariza for the minimum. There are 26 games left after the all-star break. Simons has played in 54 games and has 0.3 winshares. Nasir Little and Melo have both played in 39 games and each only has 0.6 winshares. A below average rotational player is unlikely to add even a single win.

of course it's possible that Olshey is deliberately telegraphing Portland won't be in the buy-out market as some sort of leverage gambit. I can't see how that would work, but who knows
 
noknobs said:
Sounds good. How?
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Looking at the Drummond trade, the market for centers is not high right now. We could get Whiteside back for a decent price tag, plus we have his bird rights. First take the option on Ariza, resign Melo for cheap...he wants to end his career here, Hood will take his option, resign Whiteside after everyone else.
 
wizenheimer said:
I'm sorry...that doesn't make any sense. JA is a billionaire who wanted to save a couple million dollars. It doesn't matter if Portland loses or makes money...she has to know right now which it will be, and she still wanted to pocket that cash. That's my only point...it's clear as a bell she wanted that money. You guys arguing the money doesn't matter, over and over, just isn't rational at this point given what we know. It kind of looks like you guys not wanting to let go of the 'they should have traded Whiteside' argument.

You might be right that it's short-sighted. It very well may be. But what is also likely is that a signing right now, or later, isn't going to make any difference. They won't be getting an Ariza for the minimum. There are 26 games left after the all-star break. Simons has played in 54 games and has 0.3 winshares. Nasir Little and Melo have both played in 39 games and each only has 0.6 winshares. A below average rotational player is unlikely to add even a single win.

of course it's possible that Olshey is deliberately telegraphing Portland won't be in the buy-out market as some sort of leverage gambit. I can't see how that would work, but who knows
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To use your own logic against you with JA's worth not being the same as how much cash she actually has, saving $2 million dollars doesn't mean that she actually keeps that money. With these types of businesses there are so many things that influence the books and for years teams had been claiming lost revenue when that wasn't really the case.

Besides, two home games against the Lakers would be worth around $5 million in revenue especially considering that would probably be the cheapest two Lakers tickets for fans wanting to see them in the playoffs this year. I know every time we've played GS there have been fans that have said it's cheaper to fly up to Portland, stay the night, and get tickets than it is to stay at home and go to a game.

If the team was going for it they could've explored trades that got them a player back in the Skal deal. You just mentioned 3 rotational players that have been terrible in terms of winshares too yet a buyout candidate would have little to no impact on any results? There's no way to possibly know that.
 
Why in God's name would we want Whiteside back? We've been mediocre since he got here, while the Heat have been hugely improved. Coincidence?
 
As long as we are all just speculating..... I don't think that Ms Allen cares about the money. I think Olshey couldn't get a deal done cuz he loves his assets too much. I'm not talking about Whiteside, he was valuable only to facilitate a trade. But Anf, Trent and Little. Sooo, the only thing Olshey could boast about was saving some money. He isn't the kind of guy who says "we wouldn't have signed Skal anyway" so he just talked about the money.
 
B-Roy said:
This is completely unrelated to the topic at hand but I went back and looked at the picks we ended up trading for Thomas Robinson. Now, it's unlikely the picks would have been the same had we kept those picks but DAMN:



Dillon Brooks and Richaun Holmes. Both solid/starter level players in this league.
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OUCH.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Patience grasshoppers!
If your second unit consists of Whiteside, Melo, Hood, Trent, Simons, then 2021 will be a banner year.
I hope Neil just stands pat.
2021!
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Neil has been great at the draft and bargin bin trade/free agent pickups. I dont trust him to make a good blockbuster trade or big free agent signing. Yes internal improvement will be the key.
 
hoopsjock said:
To use your own logic against you with JA's worth not being the same as how much cash she actually has, saving $2 million dollars doesn't mean that she actually keeps that money. With these types of businesses there are so many things that influence the books and for years teams had been claiming lost revenue when that wasn't really the case.

Besides, two home games against the Lakers would be worth around $5 million in revenue especially considering that would probably be the cheapest two Lakers tickets for fans wanting to see them in the playoffs this year. I know every time we've played GS there have been fans that have said it's cheaper to fly up to Portland, stay the night, and get tickets than it is to stay at home and go to a game.

If the team was going for it they could've explored trades that got them a player back in the Skal deal. You just mentioned 3 rotational players that have been terrible in terms of winshares too yet a buyout candidate would have little to no impact on any results? There's no way to possibly know that.
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Trading Skal saved cash in the bank this year. An NBA team appreciating in value while having a paper loss is an unrelated phenomenon that doesn't impact current year cash.
 
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