What's your final move?

[Draco]

Stop thinking about Lebron for a second, think about 08' Celtics instead: They had Pierce and they had a lot of young talent around him...so they took a chance and traded some great prospects in Green,Jefferson etc for an aging Ray Allen and KG (who was also known as a 1st class asshole), then they patched some veterans and young bloods on that trio and that team dominated the league.

You have to take a chance at a great duo\trio sometime, you can't expect 4 prospects to turn out great and take you to the promised land.

Garnett lead a team to the conference finals, won an MVP and was always in the playoffs. Ray Allen had his teams in the playoffs and had won multiple series. Boogie hasn't accomplished anything close to what they did.

I think Boogie is an interesting piece but he shouldn't be mentioned in a similar fashion to any of those three.

 

[Blazers Roy]

I can't believe how underrated Cousins is on these boards, it's crazy.

watch him DOMINATE the best defensive center in the league (34 Pts, 17 Reb):


once you have this kind of an advantage over 90%+ of the league then you have a bigger chance of becoming an elite team, end of story.
You guys watched us get torched by Gasol, z-bo,griffin and DJ all year long and now you fantasize about Vonleh hitting midrange shots again? smh

 

[BonesJones]

No that is NOTHING like Lebron in 2010. By that time Cleveland had made the playoffs 5 straight years and also won the Eastern conference.

I don't blame it all on Cousins because he is a center in a guard/wing's league. But is trading 5-7 players for a center worth it? He is better than Kiki Vandeweghe, but still........

The logic is the same.
What we hope for: Being a Contender
Cousins: Hasn't won
Therefore: He himself is the problem. He can't win

What Miami hoped for: A Ring
Lebron: Hadn't won a ring
Therfore: Lebron was the problem? He couldn't win a ring?

Wrong. Lebron didn't have a team. Same as Cousins. Now LBJ led his team far because of how good of a player he was. But let's remember DMC only came into his own LAST year. He's as young as Dame. So he's only had 1 year being the player he is, which was performing well at the start of the season before they inexplicably fired Mike Malone. He also had the worst fit for his Robin in Gay, who teams wouldn't have to worry about because letting him get his doesn't make a difference. So nobody questioning how could DMC is because of him not winning.

As for this year, they didn't improve their standing in the west. They got Rondo, who we saw last year makes teams worse. They got a rookie who can't do anything except dunk, whos defense will likely be ineffective, from face foul trouble for the first couple years due to inexperience. They got a backup big man who's solid but not a great fit next to Cousins and a bad wing defender who can only shoot 3s, and somehow the additions make them better? I don't see it, especially with how the rest of the west minus us and Dallas got better too. With Lebron in Cleveland Era 1, he at least had shooters and guys that would get out of his way.. Cousins doesn't have that. So if they fail I don't blame it on him. He could play like the best center in the league and that team could still be 15 or 20 games under .500 at the deadline.

Another thing I believe is that, since Hakeem, a big man will always struggle leading his team anywhere as the #1 scorer. The only one that did was Dirk but he was a hybrid.. a perimeter player. We saw what happened with Lamarsha... it's easier for someone like Westbrook who always has the ball and is hard to double team. That goes with any great wing. Big men are different. They need other good players. If DMC gets triple teamed and kicks it out but the guy he's passing to can't shoot a lick and bricks ten 3s a game, that team isn't going anywhere. That doesn't diminish how awesome Cousins would be as option 1B to Lillards 1A, with shooters and a solid 3rd scorer with them.

You need at least 2 all stars, a borderline allstar, and a few good role players to win a ring. The likelyhood of this roster growing into that is so much less likely then trading for Cousins and finding a borderline star on the market or with a guy left on the squad that didn't get traded.

 

[BonesJones]

I think it's also worth trading a lot to get him because of the chance if attracting a 3rd star via free agency next offseason. I know people say Portland can't attract stars but when was the last time we had max cap space with a superstar player already on the roster, let alone 2? I think the opportunity to form a big 3 with Lillard and Cousins would be as enticing as any on the market next year, especially with a great, hungrier than ever fanbase who got spurned by free agency the year before. If we somehow got DMC and Durant, this fanbase would take an NBA atmosphere to a whole new level. Especially if we faced the Spurs the playoffs. That series would put the Finals to shame. Whatever 3rd star came here would have the chance to plant a whole city and crazed fanbase on the map. We've never had as good of a situation as that, so I believe we could rewrote history and attract a 3rd star.

And it all starts with taking a "risk" on DMC, by trading a bunch of, in regards to the overall NBA landscape, nobodies.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Bones, you complete me (no homo).

 

[Voodoo]

I think we would all love to get cousins, but you guys are asking the wrong question. It's not whether portland wants him, it's whether sac town wants to dump him.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I can't believe how underrated Cousins is on these boards, it's crazy.

watch him DOMINATE the best defensive center in the league (34 Pts, 17 Reb):

Hmm...I didn't see Marc Gasol in that video.

Edit: just saw that was my 10,000th post. What a waste...

 

[e_blazer]

Why all this talk about Cousins when there's absolutely no indication that Sac wants to move him? In fact, ownership pretty much let Karl know that they'd rather fire him than trade Cousins if they can't get along. Seems to me that proposed final moves should have some basis in reality.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The logic is the same.
What we hope for: Being a Contender
Cousins: Hasn't won
Therefore: He himself is the problem. He can't win

What Miami hoped for: A Ring
Lebron: Hadn't won a ring
Therfore: Lebron was the problem? He couldn't win a ring?

No. That is not even remotely close to what I said.

I love Cousin's game and I would like to have him on my team. I have said that numerous times. The question I have, is he worth the gamble to trade the 7 players mentioned in the original post I responded to.

I see both sides of the argument. I get that we need 2-3 stars to win it all and that lopsided trades are necessary to get there. I also understand that most of Cousins' immature behavior that he has been criticized in the media, can be attributed to his age. But still he has some red flags. And because of them, those 7 players might be too much to give up for him.

As for Rondo......as I said in my previous post, and as I said the day of his trade to Dallas.....he was a bad fit next to Monta. It made little sense. It was a desperate attempt to "add a third star" to the team.

But in Sacramento he does not have to worry about McLemore or Belinelli or even Gay dominating the ball. He just needs to play defense and get the ball to Cousins in a position where Boogie can score. And that is what Rondo does best. I think you will see Cousins benefit from having Rondo there, and because of it....... he will not be traded.

 

[blue9]

Reality is that minds can change as new data becomes available. I agree that SAC won't trade Boogie NOW. But I think there's a semi-decent chance that they might revisit the idea at the trade deadline. Or next summer.

And KG didn't do shit until Cassell and Sprewell carried his ass to the WCF. Boogie's never even played with someone as good as Wally Szczerbiak!

 

[blue9]

As for Rondo......as I said in my previous post, and as I said the day of his trade to Dallas.....he was a bad fit next to Monta. It made little sense. It was a desperate attempt to "add a third star" to the team.

But in Sacramento he does not have to worry about McLemore or Belinelli or even Gay dominating the ball. He just needs to play defense and get the ball to Cousins in a position where Boogie can score. And that is what Rondo does best. I think you will see Cousins benefit from having Rondo there, and because of it....... he will not be traded.

Unfortunately I agree. This will be the first time in Cousin's career that he's played with another legit player. He and Rondo are a dream PG/C combo, IMO. Hopefully it doesn't work out! Hopefully Rondo really has gone downhill in a hurry, rather than just being a bad fit in DAL. But if he hasn't, his passing, defense, and rebounding will pair perfectly with DMC. This could be a new Bad Boys era...except for the fact that the rest of the team still sucks!

 

[illmatic99]

And KG didn't do shit until Cassell and Sprewell carried his ass to the WCF.

Come on, this is a bit jaded. KG won MVP in 03-04 with those guys! The guy put up 24/13/5 with 2 blks and stls. Spree and Cassell did not carry him.

 

[blue9]

Come on, this is a bit jaded. KG won MVP in 03-04 with those guys! The guy put up 24/13/5 with 2 blks and stls. Spree and Cassell did not carry him.

The point remains that he never took his team anywhere without Spree and Sam. Good stats, bad team, FUCK KG. I'll say it again (and again, and again) - he's just a good version of LMA. See Brian's post in the "who you not want" thread if you want more on why I can't stand KG.

I don't give a shit about personal accolades (MVP, All-Star, All-NBA - it's all meaningless bullshit for middle school kids to get excited about when trading basketball cards).

 

[illmatic99]

I dunno, man. Winning MVP in a year when Shaq, AI, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, TMac etc were all at the peak of their powers means something to me.

 

[magnifier661]

I can't believe how underrated Cousins is on these boards, it's crazy.

watch him DOMINATE the best defensive center in the league (34 Pts, 17 Reb):


once you have this kind of an advantage over 90%+ of the league then you have a bigger chance of becoming an elite team, end of story.
You guys watched us get torched by Gasol, z-bo,griffin and DJ all year long and now you fantasize about Vonleh hitting midrange shots again? smh

Who is overrating him? I haven't seen a single poster talk smack about his talent.

 

[magnifier661]

Why all this talk about Cousins when there's absolutely no indication that Sac wants to move him? In fact, ownership pretty much let Karl know that they'd rather fire him than trade Cousins if they can't get along. Seems to me that proposed final moves should have some basis in reality.

Only if shit hits the fan. I actually think they would part with McLemore right now

 

[Blazers Roy]

Who is overrating him? I haven't seen a single poster talk smack about his talent.

Maybe you need to read the thread again. If you don't think that DMC is not worth a package of any 5 players on our team aside from Dame,CJ and Mayers then you are underrating him.

 

[SpamKing]

My final move this summer would be to tentatively offer turkeyglue a roster spot – and then change my mind at the last minute . . .

 

[magnifier661]

Maybe you need to read the thread again. If you don't think that DMC is not worth a package of any 5 players on our team aside from Dame,CJ and Mayers then you are underrating him.

He's not. That isn't about his talent. He has the talent to be the best center in the league. What's in between his ears (what we've seen so far) devalued him.

 

[Blazers Roy]

He's not. That isn't about his talent. He has the talent to be the best center in the league. What's in between his ears (what we've seen so far) devalued him.

They've said that about Sheed,Artest and Rodman.

 

[Draco]

The point remains that he never took his team anywhere without Spree and Sam. Good stats, bad team, FUCK KG. I'll say it again (and again, and again) - he's just a good version of LMA. See Brian's post in the "who you not want" thread if you want more on why I can't stand KG.

I don't give a shit about personal accolades (MVP, All-Star, All-NBA - it's all meaningless bullshit for middle school kids to get excited about when trading basketball cards).

Your point is wrong. The Timberwolves have been to the playoffs 8 years in the franchises 26 year history; all 8 of those years were from 1997-2004 with Kevin Garnett. He elevated a historically bad team to a solid playoff club. They were the Sacramento Kings before and after KG but while he was there he lead them farther than Boogie has ever done.

A better version of LMA is a damn good player. No he's not the best player of all time but he was a legit superstar for over a decade.

 

[riverman]

My final move this season would be Thibbs as defensive coordinator. Mark Price as shooting coach and Laimbeer as big man coach..then let them do their thing

 

[Pinwheel1]

They've said that about Sheed,Artest and Rodman.

I would not put Sheed in the same category as Artest and Rodman, but none the less all of those guys were surrounded by solid vet's and HOF coaches when they won their championships.

Again I am not totally discarding your proposal, because it is intriguing, but can Dame alone give him guidance? Kaman?

 

[magnifier661]

They've said that about Sheed,Artest and Rodman.

Wait, which of those players won a title being option 1-2?

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Back in the schoolyard days my final move was a headlock.

 

[blue9]

He elevated a historically bad team to a solid playoff club.

No, he elevated his club to a perennial one-and-done doormat for the rest of the Western Conference to wipe their feet on during the first round of the Playoffs - the worst possible place for a team to be.
He absolutely was a very good player - but it did dickall for his team because he's not good enough to be the primary option on a good team.
And he's a fake tough-guy bitchass motherfucker.

 

[magnifier661]

No, he elevated his club to a perennial one-and-done doormat for the rest of the Western Conference to wipe their feet on during the first round of the Playoffs - the worst possible place for a team to be.
He absolutely was a very good player - but it did dickall for his team because he's not good enough to be the primary option on a good team.
And he's a fake tough-guy bitchass motherfucker.

He was definitely better than Bosh

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yes, i think so.
How many players do you need really? we only need 6 talented players + hardworking guys\specialists off the bench.
Teams with a long rotation of 9 10ppg players are usually destined to make 1st round exits.

I'm suggesting we sacrifice our potential to be good in order to be great. It's a gamble but it's a gamble with great value.

The logic is the same.
What we hope for: Being a Contender
Cousins: Hasn't won
Therefore: He himself is the problem. He can't win

What Miami hoped for: A Ring
Lebron: Hadn't won a ring
Therfore: Lebron was the problem? He couldn't win a ring?

Wrong. Lebron didn't have a team. Same as Cousins. Now LBJ led his team far because of how good of a player he was. But let's remember DMC only came into his own LAST year. He's as young as Dame. So he's only had 1 year being the player he is, which was performing well at the start of the season before they inexplicably fired Mike Malone. He also had the worst fit for his Robin in Gay, who teams wouldn't have to worry about because letting him get his doesn't make a difference. So nobody questioning how could DMC is because of him not winning.

As for this year, they didn't improve their standing in the west. They got Rondo, who we saw last year makes teams worse. They got a rookie who can't do anything except dunk, whos defense will likely be ineffective, from face foul trouble for the first couple years due to inexperience. They got a backup big man who's solid but not a great fit next to Cousins and a bad wing defender who can only shoot 3s, and somehow the additions make them better? I don't see it, especially with how the rest of the west minus us and Dallas got better too. With Lebron in Cleveland Era 1, he at least had shooters and guys that would get out of his way.. Cousins doesn't have that. So if they fail I don't blame it on him. He could play like the best center in the league and that team could still be 15 or 20 games under .500 at the deadline.

Another thing I believe is that, since Hakeem, a big man will always struggle leading his team anywhere as the #1 scorer. The only one that did was Dirk but he was a hybrid.. a perimeter player. We saw what happened with Lamarsha... it's easier for someone like Westbrook who always has the ball and is hard to double team. That goes with any great wing. Big men are different. They need other good players. If DMC gets triple teamed and kicks it out but the guy he's passing to can't shoot a lick and bricks ten 3s a game, that team isn't going anywhere. That doesn't diminish how awesome Cousins would be as option 1B to Lillards 1A, with shooters and a solid 3rd scorer with them.

You need at least 2 all stars, a borderline allstar, and a few good role players to win a ring. The likelyhood of this roster growing into that is so much less likely then trading for Cousins and finding a borderline star on the market or with a guy left on the squad that didn't get traded.

I think it's also worth trading a lot to get him because of the chance if attracting a 3rd star via free agency next offseason. I know people say Portland can't attract stars but when was the last time we had max cap space with a superstar player already on the roster, let alone 2? I think the opportunity to form a big 3 with Lillard and Cousins would be as enticing as any on the market next year, especially with a great, hungrier than ever fanbase who got spurned by free agency the year before. If we somehow got DMC and Durant, this fanbase would take an NBA atmosphere to a whole new level. Especially if we faced the Spurs the playoffs. That series would put the Finals to shame. Whatever 3rd star came here would have the chance to plant a whole city and crazed fanbase on the map. We've never had as good of a situation as that, so I believe we could rewrote history and attract a 3rd star.

And it all starts with taking a "risk" on DMC, by trading a bunch of, in regards to the overall NBA landscape, nobodies.

Alright man. You sold me. Great posts. I really haven't been a fan of trading our potentials, mainly Vonleh, Leonard and McCullom, but... you sold me. I don't want to get rid of all three, but 2 and a few other toss ins... you sold me.

 

[magnifier661]

@Blazers Roy look man. I think Boogie is an amazing talent. If he didn't have such a personal problem with attitude, all 30 teams would throw the world to try and get him.

His problem is he's 1a talent, with 5th string mentality. When you give away 5 players (good potential players to boot), that's for 1a talent with 1a mental fortitude. There is a level of commitment a franchise must give to the already existing players. You find the leadership on the court that will put their team on their back, over any obstacle, and carry the leadership role to the rest of his teammates.

I don't see that with Boogie. In fact, I see him willing to throw his team under the bus because he's not happy there. He has the making of a player that wants a successful team but unwilling to carry the load to make his team relevant enough for other players to want to join him.

We have that with Dame, and he has enough of a supporting cast to lure other players in. I would absolutely love Boogie to be a Blazer, but not at the cost of handcuffing our organization and putting him as a 1a player. I would love him to be our third option player that evolves to 1a when he grows up. He's not there yet and I don't want him scaring off the other potential players in process of his growth.

 

[MarAzul]

I would love to see an assistant coach on the bench that would be the next coach.
Luke Walton would be my choice.