Where are all the members that wanted to trade RJ?

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Feb 24 2008, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 24 2008, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So is this how it is going to be the rest of the season? Making knee-jerk, emotional responses based off of a couple of games?

WOOT!!!! Marcus Willaims and RJ for 2009 All Star Starters WOOT!!!!</div>

Do you see what you did there?
</div>
technically speaking knee jerk reactions can go either way..so then Cpawfan is correct in asking if we're going to keep making them, for example if RJ goes 6-42 over the next two games do you suddenly want to trade him? Or Boki for example...on Friday he scores 22 and we're all talking about him like he's the sixth man of the year...today he sucks.

I think he is saying maybe we should just wait until the end of the season before we start spouting off about how much a player is great or how much a player sucks.

Overall unrealistic...but not wrong.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 24 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So is this how it is going to be the rest of the season? Making knee-jerk, emotional responses based off of a couple of games?

WOOT!!!! Marcus Willaims and RJ for 2009 All Star Starters WOOT!!!!</div>

So you still want to trade RJ for Webster and Lafrentz?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (infinet @ Feb 24 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 24 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So is this how it is going to be the rest of the season? Making knee-jerk, emotional responses based off of a couple of games?

WOOT!!!! Marcus Willaims and RJ for 2009 All Star Starters WOOT!!!!</div>

So you still want to trade RJ for Webster and Lafrentz?
</div>

Why Webster and LaFrentz?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (infinet @ Feb 24 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 24 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So is this how it is going to be the rest of the season? Making knee-jerk, emotional responses based off of a couple of games?

WOOT!!!! Marcus Willaims and RJ for 2009 All Star Starters WOOT!!!!</div>

So you still want to trade RJ for Webster and Lafrentz?
</div>

I never did
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Feb 24 2008, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (infinet @ Feb 24 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 24 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So is this how it is going to be the rest of the season? Making knee-jerk, emotional responses based off of a couple of games?

WOOT!!!! Marcus Willaims and RJ for 2009 All Star Starters WOOT!!!!</div>

So you still want to trade RJ for Webster and Lafrentz?
</div>

Why Webster and LaFrentz?
</div>

He is taking something completely out of context again.

Last year at bbf, as a way of finding out out how much value Blazers fans placed on RJ, I asked if they would be interested in a Webster and Magloire for RJ swap. infinet took it out of context then and now.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purplehaze89 @ Feb 24 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 24 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>nets > nuggets</div>

RJ is a one dimensional scorer with bad defense at this point in his career (see 36 points ,2 rebounds 0 assists, 4 turnovers) . Nothing has changed. Based on his youth, he is the one this team needs to trade. You compare him to the other swingman on the team, Carter , who, post- Kidd is averaging 24/8 and 6. You can see that one simply makes his teammates better, while the other has assumed the 'pure scorers' role. If you trade Carter and keep RJ in the offseason you are losing the far more versatile player.
</div>Trading Carter over RJ is based on two things--he's 31 therefore he will decline earlier than RJ and VC also has got a longer contract at that.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krakista @ Feb 24 2008, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purplehaze89 @ Feb 24 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 24 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>nets > nuggets</div>

RJ is a one dimensional scorer with bad defense at this point in his career (see 36 points ,2 rebounds 0 assists, 4 turnovers) . Nothing has changed. Based on his youth, he is the one this team needs to trade. You compare him to the other swingman on the team, Carter , who, post- Kidd is averaging 24/8 and 6. You can see that one simply makes his teammates better, while the other has assumed the 'pure scorers' role. If you trade Carter and keep RJ in the offseason you are losing the far more versatile player.
</div>Trading Carter over RJ is based on two things--he's 31 therefore he will decline earlier than RJ and VC also has got a longer contract at that.
</div>

Those are the positives.

The other side is that Carter is the better player and he'd bring back less in a trade.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 24 2008, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krakista @ Feb 24 2008, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purplehaze89 @ Feb 24 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 24 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>nets > nuggets</div>

RJ is a one dimensional scorer with bad defense at this point in his career (see 36 points ,2 rebounds 0 assists, 4 turnovers) . Nothing has changed. Based on his youth, he is the one this team needs to trade. You compare him to the other swingman on the team, Carter , who, post- Kidd is averaging 24/8 and 6. You can see that one simply makes his teammates better, while the other has assumed the 'pure scorers' role. If you trade Carter and keep RJ in the offseason you are losing the far more versatile player.
</div>Trading Carter over RJ is based on two things--he's 31 therefore he will decline earlier than RJ and VC also has got a longer contract at that.
</div>

Those are the positives.

The other side is that Carter is the better player and he'd bring back less in a trade.
</div>

RJ's contract is only slighty smaller.

-Petey
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 24 2008, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 24 2008, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krakista @ Feb 24 2008, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purplehaze89 @ Feb 24 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 24 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>nets > nuggets</div>

RJ is a one dimensional scorer with bad defense at this point in his career (see 36 points ,2 rebounds 0 assists, 4 turnovers) . Nothing has changed. Based on his youth, he is the one this team needs to trade. You compare him to the other swingman on the team, Carter , who, post- Kidd is averaging 24/8 and 6. You can see that one simply makes his teammates better, while the other has assumed the 'pure scorers' role. If you trade Carter and keep RJ in the offseason you are losing the far more versatile player.
</div>Trading Carter over RJ is based on two things--he's 31 therefore he will decline earlier than RJ and VC also has got a longer contract at that.
</div>

Those are the positives.

The other side is that Carter is the better player and he'd bring back less in a trade.
</div>

RJ's contract is only slighty smaller.

-Petey
</div>
Carter gets $4M in 2011 if the team doesn't pick up his option.

You're right. Not a big deal.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 24 2008, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 24 2008, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Feb 24 2008, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krakista @ Feb 24 2008, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purplehaze89 @ Feb 24 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Feb 24 2008, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>nets > nuggets</div>

RJ is a one dimensional scorer with bad defense at this point in his career (see 36 points ,2 rebounds 0 assists, 4 turnovers) . Nothing has changed. Based on his youth, he is the one this team needs to trade. You compare him to the other swingman on the team, Carter , who, post- Kidd is averaging 24/8 and 6. You can see that one simply makes his teammates better, while the other has assumed the 'pure scorers' role. If you trade Carter and keep RJ in the offseason you are losing the far more versatile player.
</div>Trading Carter over RJ is based on two things--he's 31 therefore he will decline earlier than RJ and VC also has got a longer contract at that.
</div>

Those are the positives.

The other side is that Carter is the better player and he'd bring back less in a trade.
</div>

RJ's contract is only slighty smaller.

-Petey
</div>
Carter gets $4M in 2011 if the team doesn't pick up his option.

You're right. Not a big deal.
</div>

Looking at the differences in salary leading up to 2011. It's slightly more than the LLE per season.

By 2011, 4M might be less than 2/3 of the MLE.

I know it sounds like big money, but look at what teams have moved around this season. It's really not alot of money unless you are talking about a franchise who has to penny pinch...

-Petey
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krakista @ Feb 24 2008, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So Vince's contract is not really that bad.</div>

That's a matter of opinion.

I think they are both overpaid. In both cases when trading for either, their contracts will hurt their returns.

-Petey
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Feb 24 2008, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Feb 24 2008, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 24 2008, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So is this how it is going to be the rest of the season? Making knee-jerk, emotional responses based off of a couple of games?

WOOT!!!! Marcus Willaims and RJ for 2009 All Star Starters WOOT!!!!</div>

Do you see what you did there?
</div>
technically speaking knee jerk reactions can go either way..so then Cpawfan is correct in asking if we're going to keep making them, for example if RJ goes 6-42 over the next two games do you suddenly want to trade him? Or Boki for example...on Friday he scores 22 and we're all talking about him like he's the sixth man of the year...today he sucks.

I think he is saying maybe we should just wait until the end of the season before we start spouting off about how much a player is great or how much a player sucks.

Overall unrealistic...but not wrong.
</div>

I was just making fun of his sample size. Course, this forum has a recent history of lots of histrionics, so his n can actually be pretty big.
 
If we're back to taking RJ's daily or weekly temperature, he's morbidly cold. Except for the Milwaukee game, where he was merely competent, he's sucked badly in the last 4. God help Vince if he ever looked as completely lazy and casual as RJ did when Ginobli beat him to the backcourt for a ball (that Jefferson had mishandled) and proceeded to sail in for an uncontested layup. The calls of "bum" and "dog" on the forums would have known no end.

I don't think RJ is a bum, but I'm definitely disappointed that he's talking in the press about Marcus Williams not "fading away" while making plays like that one and the similarly idiotic, lazy play against Chicago where he was gathering himself for a fancy open court dunk and took so much time that he had his shot blocked from behind. If he ever had pretense about being a "leader" . . .
 
Yeah. Still wish we at least tried to trade RJ to the Blazers for Outlaw.

That woulda been awesome.

Now, we have a lazy, streaky, no-defense, unaggressive player who talks a lot but can't back up any of that talk. I'm so glad we didn't trade RJ!!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Mar 5 2008, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If we're back to taking RJ's daily or weekly temperature, he's morbidly cold. Except for the Milwaukee game, where he was merely competent, he's sucked badly in the last 4. God help Vince if he ever looked as completely lazy and casual as RJ did when Ginobli beat him to the backcourt for a ball (that Jefferson had mishandled) and proceeded to sail in for an uncontested layup. The calls of "bum" and "dog" on the forums would have known no end.

I don't think RJ is a bum, but I'm definitely disappointed that he's talking in the press about Marcus Williams not "fading away" while making plays like that one and the similarly idiotic, lazy play against Chicago where he was gathering himself for a fancy open court dunk and took so much time that he had his shot blocked from behind. If he ever had pretense about being a "leader" . . .</div>
I agree, he's totally out of it. Think the Kidd thing stung him hard.

On another note, I don't think the Carter hating is as bad as it once was.
 
what has happened to his slashing game? he is a pure shooter now who cant shoot. thats what i hate about him, he thinks he can shoot but he cant and he refuses to drive anymore
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah. Still wish we at least tried to trade RJ to the Blazers for Outlaw.

That woulda been awesome.

Now, we have a lazy, streaky, no-defense, unaggressive player who talks a lot but can't back up any of that talk. I'm so glad we didn't trade RJ!!!</div>
rj is not a good team captain, how can you be when you suck
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah. Still wish we at least tried to trade RJ to the Blazers for Outlaw.

That woulda been awesome.

Now, we have a lazy, streaky, no-defense, unaggressive player who talks a lot but can't back up any of that talk. I'm so glad we didn't trade RJ!!!</div>

still can, I'll bet. Portland NEEDS to make some personnel moves. This has been discussed before, but to recap, if the Blazers do nothing, they'll have something like 20 players under contract next year. That includes four picks in the draft, and a couple of euros that are expected to come over--or at least WANT to come over next year. Their 27th pick in the second round is useless, but, in addition to their own late lottery pick, they have the Memphis and Knicks second rounders, which are currently pencilled in at #34 and #35 overall.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them (Portland I mean) construct a package of Webster/Outlaw/James Jones, plus the rights to Rudy Fernandez/Petteri Koponen, and one or both of the early second rounders for someone. Would they take RJ for something like that? Obviuosly, if I'm the Nets, I try to hold out for their first rounder and two of those five players I listed. The Nets take LaFrentz to make the salaries match, and end up giving the Blazers some salary relief as a result-which is nothing to sneeze at; they are far above the cap.

The Blazers are almost forced to make a deal like this. I guess alternatively they could try to package all their picks together for a higher pick, but that might be hard to do, because they only have one first rounder.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 5 2008, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah. Still wish we at least tried to trade RJ to the Blazers for Outlaw.

That woulda been awesome.

Now, we have a lazy, streaky, no-defense, unaggressive player who talks a lot but can't back up any of that talk. I'm so glad we didn't trade RJ!!!</div>

still can, I'll bet. Portland NEEDS to make some personnel moves. This has been discussed before, but to recap, if the Blazers do nothing, they'll have something like 20 players under contract next year. That includes four picks in the draft, and a couple of euros that are expected to come over--or at least WANT to come over next year. Their 27th pick in the second round is useless, but, in addition to their own late lottery pick, they have the Memphis and Knicks second rounders, which are currently pencilled in at #34 and #35 overall.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them (Portland I mean) construct a package of Webster/Outlaw/James Jones, plus the rights to Rudy Fernandez/Petteri Koponen, and one or both of the early second rounders for someone. Would they take RJ for something like that? Obviuosly, if I'm the Nets, I try to hold out for their first rounder and two of those five players I listed. The Nets take LaFrentz to make the salaries match, and end up giving the Blazers some salary relief as a result-which is nothing to sneeze at; they are far above the cap.

The Blazers are almost forced to make a deal like this. I guess alternatively they could try to package all their picks together for a higher pick, but that might be hard to do, because they only have one first rounder.
</div>

Dumpy, I say this in the nicest way possible, you don't have a bloody clue about how Portland values their players. The Blazers have turned down trades for players better than RJ because they aren't including Outlaw and Rudy.
 
I'd trade RJ for just Rudy and filler.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 5 2008, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 5 2008, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Mar 5 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah. Still wish we at least tried to trade RJ to the Blazers for Outlaw.

That woulda been awesome.

Now, we have a lazy, streaky, no-defense, unaggressive player who talks a lot but can't back up any of that talk. I'm so glad we didn't trade RJ!!!</div>

still can, I'll bet. Portland NEEDS to make some personnel moves. This has been discussed before, but to recap, if the Blazers do nothing, they'll have something like 20 players under contract next year. That includes four picks in the draft, and a couple of euros that are expected to come over--or at least WANT to come over next year. Their 27th pick in the second round is useless, but, in addition to their own late lottery pick, they have the Memphis and Knicks second rounders, which are currently pencilled in at #34 and #35 overall.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them (Portland I mean) construct a package of Webster/Outlaw/James Jones, plus the rights to Rudy Fernandez/Petteri Koponen, and one or both of the early second rounders for someone. Would they take RJ for something like that? Obviuosly, if I'm the Nets, I try to hold out for their first rounder and two of those five players I listed. The Nets take LaFrentz to make the salaries match, and end up giving the Blazers some salary relief as a result-which is nothing to sneeze at; they are far above the cap.

The Blazers are almost forced to make a deal like this. I guess alternatively they could try to package all their picks together for a higher pick, but that might be hard to do, because they only have one first rounder.
</div>

Dumpy, I say this in the nicest way possible, you don't have a bloody clue about how Portland values their players. The Blazers have turned down trades for players better than RJ because they aren't including Outlaw and Rudy.
</div>

<shrug> they need to trade someone, mate. it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time, with the right player to dangle. you never know how a team values anything until you ask, and I'm not going to speculate on anything. I give you credit, though--you courageously deviated from the "Rod won't deal anyone at the height of their value" message. Nice job!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 5 2008, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><shrug> they need to trade someone, mate. it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time, with the right player to dangle. you never know how a team values anything until you ask, and I'm not going to speculate on anything. I give you credit, though--you courageously deviated from the "Rod won't deal anyone at the height of their value" message. Nice job!</div>

1) I do have a better than average understand of what Portland's FO thinks because of some friends I have. Also, second round picks are easy to trade away for future picks.

2) Please show where Rod has traded someone recently at the height of their value. Getting better than expected value for Kidd isn't the same thing.
 
Oh, dear. Back on message already. Oh well.

I don't doubt that you know someone in Portland's front office, whatever that means. You can never anticipate how another team will value their assets or your players. There is never any harm in pursuing something like this, unless you're the type that gets depressed whn told that they're not interested. My point was that Portland needs to make a deal where they give up more assets than they receive back, and you never know what other offers they are or aren't getting. How do you think the Lakers came away with Pau, and not another team?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 5 2008, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How do you think the Lakers came away with Pau, and not another team?</div>
Ain't that the truth.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 5 2008, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh, dear. Back on message already. Oh well.

I don't doubt that you know someone in Portland's front office, whatever that means. You can never anticipate how another team will value their assets or your players. There is never any harm in pursuing something like this, unless you're the type that gets depressed whn told that they're not interested. My point was that Portland needs to make a deal where they give up more assets than they receive back, and you never know what other offers they are or aren't getting. How do you think the Lakers came away with Pau, and not another team?</div>

The Lakers got Gasol because they were offering expiring contracts, a young prospect and future picks. The cap space was of greater value to Memphis than the other offers which included more talented players. (that would be the Stern-approved answer)

Portland has 14 players under contract for next season plus their first round pick, the rights to Rudy, Playboy Pete, Freeland and a gaggle of second round picks. It is easy to sell second round picks or trade them for future assets. The picks can also be used on other Euro stashes. That 14 includes James Jones who can opt out of his contract and McRoberts who has a non-guaranteed contract. Players like Frye and Jack could easily be included in draft day trades as well.

The Blazers don't have to give up any of their highly valued assets unless it is in a consolidation trade that heavily favors them.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 5 2008, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My point was that Portland needs to make a deal where they give up more assets than they receive back, and you never know what other offers they are or aren't getting. How do you think the Lakers came away with Pau, and not another team?</div>

Jerry West, Chris Wallace and a bottle of tequila.

Or, phrased another way, I don't see Pritchard getting fleeced any time soon, similarly to how I don't see Thorn getting fleeced any time soon (at least not by another GM).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Mar 5 2008, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 5 2008, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My point was that Portland needs to make a deal where they give up more assets than they receive back, and you never know what other offers they are or aren't getting. How do you think the Lakers came away with Pau, and not another team?</div>

Jerry West, Chris Wallace and a bottle of tequila.

Or, phrased another way, I don't see Pritchard getting fleeced any time soon, similarly to how I don't see Thorn getting fleeced any time soon (at least not by another GM).
</div>

Remember last summer when people thought that Zeke fleeced Pritchard in the ZBo trade? How does that one look now?
 
damn... id trade RJ for anything... even expirings... maybe we can make a run at elton or gilbert! i kno we have a PG but gilbert is more of a 2 anyway and we can put carter at 3... hes tall enough
a man can dream... cant he?
 
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