Politics White Nationalist Rally turns to violence and terrorism

[MarAzul]

The will of the people elects politicians--once there, they should do what they believe is right. If the people disagree with their actions, the recourse is to vote them out. If we did everything by polling, we wouldn't need elected representatives.

Right! Ignoring the laws against vandalism and destruction of public property, is malfeasance, even if it is part of the progressive agenda.
We are done.

 

[Minstrel]

Right! Ignoring the laws against vandalism and destruction of public property, is malfeasance, even if it is part of the progressive agenda.

I don't think people should unlawfully tear down statues. Perhaps when they're taken down by the local governments, they can be auctioned off to private art dealers or museums and the money raised can be used to finance tax cuts.

Did I just give you the weirdest boner of your life?

 

[Cippy91]

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I've seen him a few times. Never really interested in what he says. Not really interested. However, he clearly doesn't fall in line with whatever it is his predetermined group think cult says if they want him dead.

I hope they leave him alone, otherwise he might have to go to Canada.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm willing to bet a majority of American citizens do not know much about our history.

That said, I disagree with Santayana's sentiment that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it. Humans are condemned to repeat history, regardless. The same themes keep recurring, history tends to go in cycles (modified for the era). Because until our essential natures change, humans remain humans regardless of the time period with the same concerns and aggressions. In my opinion, though, while history cycles, continued social progress (as I'd define it) serves to reduce the amplitude on those cycles, causing less extreme swings towards violence and hatred. So, in that sense, even if individuals don't have a good memory of their high school history, memory of history tends to get baked into the development of society.

Good points but I think instant communication is having a reverse effect on everything. Everyone is hasty and kneejerk reactionary. This is creating chaos that I think will escalate further than the 60's.
Time has changed for the FIRST time, to an era of worldwide organized chaos by those who actually want anarchy. Never before have these people been able to communicate and organize like this. And this goes for the nazi white supremists as well.
People don't have the time or don't take the time To think about what is going on and are just jumping right into it on one side or the other.

Pure baloney. Tearing down is regression in the name of progression. They both look the same, change. Actually I really have no feel for the statues raised in the Eastern US, but I would leave it to the residents of that area to decide their worth. What the hell a loud mouth from Oregon is weighing in about is a different matter. Progressive's are like that, mind everyone's business and support any change. Pay no mind to unintended consequences, move on down the progressive agenda. It is never complete, there is more to destroy.

Not everything is good "as is" though. Humans are progressive by nature. We are explorers. Forever seeking answers to the unknown and map lands not yet traversed.
We left the cave and we made fire and we made the wheel and we crossed the Atlantic and we took to the sky and we left the atmosphere and we landed on the moon...and...and...and
This will all be for not if we do not "make progress" on race relations and understanding of the need for compromise to coexist in a plural society.

Not any change, just the ones that make sense.

Also, I'm not advocating for the statues to be destroyed. Just not displayed on public land.

History can be burnt into our minds many ways. Personally tv documentaries and school text books probably serve a much better function than a statue. If you haven't visited he statue by chance, seen a documentary or read about it, odds are you don't now if it's existence, so really the statue serves the least amount of significance when trying to preserve history I would think. Let the locals of the land who actually look at it decide what they would prefer and the rest of us can read about it like we always have.

They should just do it democratically with votes, rather than illegally with vandalism.

 

[Sedatedfork]

It is history that they erected the statues in those parks and named them.

So yeah, you do want to erase history. You also want to do it in places you don't even live near or visit.

Its history that slavery existed. So I guess you think they shouldn't have passed the 13th Amendment. It erased history!

 

[Orion Bailey]

Its history that slavery existed. So I guess you think they shouldn't have passed the 13th Amendment. It erased history!

And In that context, we should have never toppled Hitler's statue as well. History right?

 

[riverman]

If you had any sense, you would not need to be tutored.

what a load of rude bullshit

 

[riverman]

even if it is part of the progressive agenda.

proof you have no clue what a progressive agenda really is.....you keep lumping americans into your own personal boogey man....it's too bad Marz...we are fellow countrymen....you might want to start respecting that. Stereotypes like yours are why racism started to begin with....progressives aren't out to destroy property anymore than you are....assholes destroy property though, and they are not usually interested in partisan politics....they just like to vent...on all sides of the political landscape.....ask any native American about how their hunting grounds and sacred lands were destroyed by European invaders......I doubt you have a problem with that.

 

[dead247]

So I owe @SlyPokerDog yet another apology. I honestly didn't read much of what you guys were going back and forth about, but just felt a 4am drunken need to insert myself into it. My bad. I think you might've thought I was being sarcastic, but I legit wasn't. Regardless, my head was clearly (or not so much) up my ass. Now, I'll go give myself 50 lashes.

 

[Denny Crane]

Its history that slavery existed. So I guess you think they shouldn't have passed the 13th Amendment. It erased history!

The lack of reasoned arguments among people wanting to remove these statues suggests we have a serious public education problem.

 

[Sedatedfork]

The lack of reasoned arguments among people wanting to remove these statues suggests we have a serious public education problem.

You are the ridiculous one arguing that historically statues were erected and that therefore removing statues is erasing history.

 

[Denny Crane]

You are the ridiculous one arguing that historically statues were erected and that therefore removing statues is erasing history.

Mob rule is no rule at all. I don't at all see it as ridiculous to argue against it.

 

[Denny Crane]

This is the best assessment we have at this point of public opinion.

http://www.kmov.com/story/36157901/...ed-voters-say-confederate-statues-should-stay

According to the NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll, 62% of voters want the statues to stay and 27% would like them to be "removed because they are offensive to some people." 11% of voters say they are "unsure."

The poll interviews were conducted August 14 and 15, only a few days after the violent clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia that left one person dead and many injured.

 

[riverman]

Mob rule is no rule at all

If the mob ruled, Trump wouldn't be in office right now.....but I guess you don't think of the KKK or Nazis as a mob.....only democrats form mobs eh?

 

[Denny Crane]

Here's a perfect example of why this reasoning is foolish.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...tues-democrats-kass-0820-20170818-column.html

While we're toppling offensive symbols, what about the Democratic Party?

The Democratic Party historically is the party of slavery. The Democratic Party is the party of Jim Crow laws. The Democratic Party fought civil rights for a century.

And so by rights — or at least by the standards established by the Cultural Revolutionaries of today's American left — we should ban the Democratic Party.

Not only get rid of it in the present, but strike its very name from the history books, and topple all Democratic statues of leaders who benefited, prospered and became wealthy by cleaving to the party. And shame Democrats until they confess the truth of it.

The Democratic Party's military arm in the South was the KKK. The Democratic Party opposed the 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution, making the former slaves citizens of the United States and giving them the vote.

If the new Cultural Revolution was serious, wouldn't it also demand that the Democratic Party be put in a museum somewhere, away from decent people, along with those Confederate statues?

We could put Democrats in exhibits, behind glass, watching white political bosses chomp cigars and pass out goodies for votes, as minorities were relegated, as they are today, to failing schools and lost educational opportunity and neighborhoods that have become killing fields for the young and old.

And in great museums, the Democrats could be studied, safely, without endangering the sensibilities of the children.

 

[Denny Crane]

If the mob ruled, Trump wouldn't be in office right now.....but I guess you don't think of the KKK or Nazis as a mob.....only democrats form mobs eh?

Seriously?

 

[Denny Crane]

The previous article I posted ends thus:

My guess is that most Americans are afraid of social punishment. So, the offensive statues will go, and then perhaps offensive iconography, offensive images, offensive books.

One book comes to mind. Let me quote a passage from it.

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street and building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

George Orwell. "1984."

 

[riverman]

Seriously?

sarcastically.....whoosh!!!! you lump the thousands in Boston into your definition of a mob and pretend they were all guilty of unruly, dangerous protesters....but that's your MO.......we live in volatile times thanks to a president that alienates large segments of the population ......a guy who's made America his enemy for the most part....educated people all over the planet are calling him out on it and you call them a mob.....I'm an American....not affiliated with any organized political group.....keep me out of your team sport

 

[riverman]

The previous article I posted ends thus:

My guess is that most Americans are afraid of social punishment. So, the offensive statues will go, and then perhaps offensive iconography, offensive images, offensive books.

One book comes to mind. Let me quote a passage from it.

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street and building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

George Orwell. "1984."

 

[riverman]

The previous article I posted ends thus:

My guess is that most Americans are afraid of social punishment. So, the offensive statues will go, and then perhaps offensive iconography, offensive images, offensive books.

One book comes to mind. Let me quote a passage from it.

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street and building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

George Orwell. "1984."

If we were talking about Mao's Red Guard....this would apply...problem is, we're not

 

[Denny Crane]

sarcastically.....whoosh!!!! you lump the thousands in Boston into your definition of a mob and pretend they were all guilty of unruly, dangerous protesters....but that's your MO.......we live in volatile times thanks to a president that alienates large segments of the population ......a guy who's made America his enemy for the most part....educated people all over the planet are calling him out on it and you call them a mob.....I'm an American....not affiliated with any organized political group.....keep me out of your team sport

I made no such leap of bad logic.

I didn't say 14,000 people bused themselves in to Boston. Enough did to get arrested 30+ times.

Seems like you're being duped (and repeating talking points) because you are denying the obvious truth.

 

[Denny Crane]

If we were talking about Mao's Red Guard....this would apply...problem is, we're not

I guess I watch too much TV. What I saw were lots of communist party and socialist party signs in the crowd.

As much as we need to be vigilant about the country not turning Fascist, we need to be just as vigilant about not becoming Communist.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[riverman]

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Here's a perfect example of why this reasoning is foolish.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...tues-democrats-kass-0820-20170818-column.html

While we're toppling offensive symbols, what about the Democratic Party?

The Democratic Party historically is the party of slavery. The Democratic Party is the party of Jim Crow laws. The Democratic Party fought civil rights for a century.

And so by rights — or at least by the standards established by the Cultural Revolutionaries of today's American left — we should ban the Democratic Party.

Not only get rid of it in the present, but strike its very name from the history books, and topple all Democratic statues of leaders who benefited, prospered and became wealthy by cleaving to the party. And shame Democrats until they confess the truth of it.

The Democratic Party's military arm in the South was the KKK. The Democratic Party opposed the 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution, making the former slaves citizens of the United States and giving them the vote.

If the new Cultural Revolution was serious, wouldn't it also demand that the Democratic Party be put in a museum somewhere, away from decent people, along with those Confederate statues?

We could put Democrats in exhibits, behind glass, watching white political bosses chomp cigars and pass out goodies for votes, as minorities were relegated, as they are today, to failing schools and lost educational opportunity and neighborhoods that have become killing fields for the young and old.

And in great museums, the Democrats could be studied, safely, without endangering the sensibilities of the children.

Spoken like someone who's view of Democratic Party is solidly based on Chicago style politics. How representative of the whole........

 

[riverman]

yes...we have a communist party in the US.....rarely gets any attention but it's always been here

 

[Denny Crane]

Spoken like someone who's view of Democratic Party is solidly based on Chicago style politics. How representative of the whole........

I don't agree with his logic. But I think he's making a point by taking the bad logic of those who want to remove the statues to the extreme. And that is a valid logic method.

 

[Denny Crane]

yes...we have a communist party in the US.....rarely gets any attention but it's always been here

The danger in all this mob rule is that groups like the communist party usa will be silenced.

I side with the ACLU. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and uphold civil rights even if it means Nazis can march (with permits even). If you allow peoples' civil rights to be taken away, there's nothing stopping ANYONE's from being taken away at some point.

That's the merit of the Orwell quote.

 

[riverman]

The danger in all this mob rule is that groups like the communist party usa will be silenced

when have you ever seen their candidate in a presidential debate? ......yep....never...I'm not against any whack job organization having their rally....if the Nazis and KKK had just rallied in Charlottesville.....I'd have paid little attention to them....when they show up armed with weapons, torches and run people down with cars.....I pay attention when they chant gas the jews....that is why Boston happened....the nature of the rally....and I expect a president to address political murder immediately with heartfelt compassion....instead of one drawing lines in the sand and considering over half of America, his enemy