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VanillaGorilla said:


Just posting this video as I think it may be interesting to some seeking to hear different perspectives.
Click to expand...

Ive listen to half of it and have enjoyed the conversation and ability to discuss.
Is the commentator that Professor that got fired form Evergreen College? He looks familiar?
Ill finis the rest before bedtime. Thanks for sharing this.
 
Hoopguru said:
Ive listen to half of it and have enjoyed the conversation and ability to discuss.
Is the commentator that Professor that got fired form Evergreen College? He looks familiar?
Ill finis the rest before bedtime. Thanks for sharing this.
Click to expand...
Its him the guy the students got fired for encouraging debate and discussion.
 
Hoopguru said:
Its him the guy the students got fired for encouraging debate and discussion.
Click to expand...
Yep. I'm pretty sure he lives in or around Portland right now, too. He's not very fond of the protests, to say the least. I definitely don't agree with everything, or even most of his views, but I enjoy hearing views that challenge my own and he's good for that.
 
SlyPokerDog said:


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tenor.gif
 
ABM said:
I didn't refuse. I looked it over. But, they can say all day long all the things they want to see. What I'm really seeing is a disjointed operation without any true leadership. Answer me this, who's leading that ship?? I mean, really?

Meanwhile, you'll probably be seeing more and more resistance like what was shared above by that gal.
Click to expand...
No, ABM, what you see are rioters mixed in with the protestors and you label them all the same. They are not the same no matter how intertwined physically. Black Lives also Matter are protestors, not rioters. The rioters have their won problems and deserve to be dealt with by the police separately from the protestors. If the police can't do that then perhaps they ought to be in a different occupation, perhaps selling women's shoes.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
How would you know when by your own admission you will only look at one side.
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BTW, BLM began in 2013 in response to an incident that had nothing to do with the police.

At any rate, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this statement from their mission statement. And how do their efforts play out:

We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
 
VanillaGorilla said:


Just posting this video as I think it may be interesting to some seeking to hear different perspectives.
Click to expand...


Very interesting. It's an hour long, so I won't have a chance to view it all this morning. However, I did do a little search on Weinstein, and found this. I agree with his premise:

 
ABM said:
BTW, BLM began in 2013 in response to an incident that had nothing to do with the police.

At any rate, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this statement from their mission statement. And how do their efforts play out:

We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
Click to expand...
Sounds pretty good to a lot of women who live with these problems.
 
crandc said:
Sounds pretty good to a lot of women who live with these problems.
Click to expand...

You'll absolutely love what follows, then:

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle disgender (sic) privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered......
........
We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Yep. I'm pretty sure he lives in or around Portland right now, too. He's not very fond of the protests, to say the least. I definitely don't agree with everything, or even most of his views, but I enjoy hearing views that challenge my own and he's good for that.
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Right on!
 
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Lanny said:
No, ABM, what you see are rioters mixed in with the protestors and you label them all the same. They are not the same no matter how intertwined physically. Black Lives also Matter are protestors, not rioters. The rioters have their won problems and deserve to be dealt with by the police separately from the protestors. If the police can't do that then perhaps they ought to be in a different occupation, perhaps selling women's shoes.
Click to expand...
And the Mayor should step down ad police commissioner but he like many cops like the Authority it gives him, to do nothing.
 
Lanny said:
No, ABM, what you see are rioters mixed in with the protestors and you label them all the same. They are not the same no matter how intertwined physically. Black Lives also Matter are protestors, not rioters. The rioters have their won problems and deserve to be dealt with by the police separately from the protestors. If the police can't do that then perhaps they ought to be in a different occupation, perhaps selling women's shoes.
Click to expand...

It’s really not that difficult to tell the two groups apart. When’s the last time you decided to participate in a protest for social justice and thought, “Gotta grab my framing hammer, fireworks, respirator, shield, bolt cutters, and leaf blower”?
 
ABM said:
BLM isn't the be all, end all. Period.
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But what is ABM? What is your be all end all answer then?

Christianity clearly isn't, just sift through their history. Republicanism isn't, just sift through their history.


It seems you want some, "end all, be all" answer in order to support any of it and there will never be an "end all, be all" answer for anything. We are too diverse as humans.

Do you not think it would be wise and prudent to support some things you agree with in movements in order to facilitate progression to something better? Or would you rather suppress what parts you may agree with simply because you don't agree with others portions of their movement?

I think the best thing we can do as a society and government moving forward, is drop all of this historical labeling of "one way is the right way" politics and start picking through all types of government, pulling the parts that have proven to work and make sense and start pooling these ideals and programs together to form something new.

Its kind of like economics/wall street. You typically don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. you want to spread them out, see what works and go from there.

Not all programs or ideals will work or come to fruition for BLM, just like it doesn't for any political assembly.

You seem to be focused on the outlier ideals, instead of the meat of the movement that the masses of BLM support.


Not all Republicans support all republican ideals, but they can still be republicans and support the ones they believe in.

Why cant BLM members and supporters do the same?
 
e_blazer said:
It’s really not that difficult to tell the two groups apart. When’s the last time you decided to participate in a protest for social justice and thought, “Gotta grab my framing hammer, fireworks, respirator, shield, bolt cutters, and leaf blower”?
Click to expand...

The leaf blower. That's the sure sign. @SlyPokerDog is a rioter.
 
ABM said:
You'll absolutely love what follows, then:

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle disgender (sic) privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered......
........
We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).
Click to expand...

Don't you love that? I'm not sure what kind of monster would say, "Inclusivity? That's awful."
 
So ABM's evolving viewpoint at this issue is:

1. Government shouldn't be involved in dismantling the systemic racism that often requires power to effect; it should be up to grassroots movements

AND

2. Grassroots movements fighting systemic racism like BLM are highly suspicious and shouldn't be supported
 
ABM said:
You'll absolutely love what follows, then:

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle disgender (sic) privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered......
........
We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).
Click to expand...
That's the way 70% of the public thinks, also.

That seems to be a pretty healthy way to look at sexual identity as well as look at misogyny.
 
Minstrel said:
So ABM's evolving viewpoint at this issue is:

1. Government shouldn't be involved in dismantling the systemic racism that often requires power to effect; it should be up to grassroots movements

AND

2. Grassroots movements fighting systemic racism like BLM are highly suspicious and shouldn't be supported
Click to expand...

Wrong again.

ABM's viewpoint on #2 is:

Grassroots movements fighting systemic racism like BLM may be highly suspicious and should continue to be evaluated. This, considering there are many within their own ranks (i.e. other Blacks, both, individually, as well as corporately) who very much are challenging BLM's so-called mission and/or bottom-line motives.
 
ABM said:
Wrong again.

ABM's viewpoint on #2 is:

Grassroots movements fighting systemic racism like BLM may be highly suspicious and should continue to be evaluated. This, considering there are many within their own ranks (i.e. other Blacks, both, individually, as well as corporately) who very much are challenging BLM's so-called mission and/or bottom-line motives.
Click to expand...

Which corporations are you talking about?



You won't read or discuss anything they have written but instead continually shit on them and promote wild conspiracy theories and fallacies.



But let's discuss this statement: "This, considering there are many within their own ranks (i.e. other Blacks, both, individually, as well as corporately) who very much are challenging BLM's so-called mission and/or bottom-line motives."

The videos that you have posted by black people criticizing BLM are not by BLM members. Are you saying these "ranks" are their skin color?

I guess that puts you in the ranks of the KKK, right?
 
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