Why Do Many Reasonable People Doubt Science?

[dviss1]

Well, technically that concept is infallible and science has proven that.

Religion ignores science bro...

 

[magnifier661]

Religion ignores science bro...

Science ignores science bro. Or liberals ignore science. Or conservatives ignore science. Or pro abortion to con abortion. Ask the pro global warming scientists vs con global warming scientists

 

[Mediocre Man]

Religion ignores science bro...

My religion absolutely believes in scientific laws.

 

[oldfisherman]

Great post! I think there have been great renaissance periods throughout history but always tell my son that my generation did fuck up. Born in the 50's we went from a thriving period of innovation to an entertainment crazed, substance abusing, selfish period of apathy in a lot of ways. Some good has come out of it in terms of equality and tolerance but too many of my generation sat in front of a TV and basically consumed themselves into ill health and addictive behavior. Transportion access has definitely had an impact on the escalation of damage we can achieve globally. I was on a boat in southeast asia and a barge was dumping garbage on the shores of the Tonkin gulf...talked to the sailors from that ship and they told me it was garbage from New York City that they paid the locals to dump on their shores because it's illegal to do that in the Atlantic

Sounds like our ages are within a decade of each other; I also was part of the change brought about by TV. I did not notice how much affect TV had on our culture at the time. However, about 20 years ago, I had a unique opportunity to watch how quickly TV can change a society.

I kept a sport fishing boat in a small village in Mexico for 4 years. I drove their often during that period. I learned to love the locals and emerged myself into their culture. Good times.

When I first arrived there, they did not have a single TV in the village. The village square was the social activity, especially in the evenings. Almost everyone would gather there and enjoyed visiting with their relatives and neighbors, often late into the evening under the lights. Young single couples courted while being watched by parents from a distance. Young kids played soccer while others played basketball, all on the same court at the same time. It was a marvelous experience, until they got TVs.

Everyone sat at home watching tv all evening. Overnight the town square lights went dark

Mexicans are a happy people. However, after the TV arrived, my impression was they were less happy with their lives, but did not realize why.

 

[riverman]

We are talking about the "popular account". There are people today that still thinks the world is flat. Who gives a fuck what they think?!

To think that religion and science cannot work together is fucking moronic, especially seeing religion funding a great deal of science through the history of science. Whatever their agenda was, it couldn't of happened without their money. Just like why there isn't research for ALS because there isn't enough suffering or science to find a cure.

Don't act so pompous on the anti-theism camp

mags, you need to stop defining me for my views..I respect your views but that doesn't make me fucking pompous...I'm trying to have an objective conversation here but you are over the top defensive about your faith ...this is where religious wars sprouted from. Your thread asked a question...my views are the views of an agnostic who's interested in the Tao as a spiritual contemplation..not a Hatfield vs McCoy feud. I agree religious groups have funded good things from profits they've generated. Jimmy Carter is one of my heroes for his Habitat for Humanity campaign as well as Tsi Chi Buddhist foundation for their disaster relief efforts...my problem with one religious opposition to science is stem cell research. I work with the disabled 24 hours a week...many with Parkinson's or MS. The argument against stem cell research is in my view ..ridiculous. I'm happy to discuss things here but baiting opinions to create a divisive culture is part of the problem and has been for ages.

 

[MarAzul]

Jesus would distribute it to the needy. Are you saying he wouldn't?

Luke 6:30
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

Hey marzy, can I have your boat?

Aw you are bending the issue badly. Jesus never advocated taxing the hell out of people an have the equivalent of the pharisees distribute the take as they see fit.
The Pope is jumping on the Obama scam wagon without any help from Jesus.

What Boat?

 

[riverman]

We are talking about the "popular account". There are people today that still thinks the world is flat. Who gives a fuck what they think?!

To think that religion and science cannot work together is fucking moronic, especially seeing religion funding a great deal of science through the history of science. Whatever their agenda was, it couldn't of happened without their money. Just like why there isn't research for ALS because there isn't enough suffering from the disease for science to find a cure.

Don't act so pompous on the anti-theism camp

Apparently they do as well as anthropologists, and scholars who study human behavior..why wouldn't you? I haven't read one post here that says religion and science can't work together but there are many examples throughout history where they haven't

 

[MarAzul]

This does not happen in Religion

Sure it does

Sure it does. More and More people are becoming indirectly aware of the teaching of Mohammad and are disgusted by it. On the other hand people every day try to find something wrong with the teachings of Jesus. But you hardly every see anyone find him wrong. They just bad mouth religion, implying Christianity.

 

[Denny Crane]

I doubt the oceans are dead.

 

[MarAzul]

not try to interpret them in a more convenient way

Uh, you best learn to interpret the teachings of Jesus. Speaking in parables was his style.
"Jesus spoke in parables - earthly stories with a heavenly meaning. He did so that his disciples would comprehend his teachings and that unbelievers would be without comprehension. Those interested in understanding the truth of his message would understand while those not interested would remain without understanding."

 

[dviss1]

Sure it does. More and More people are becoming indirectly aware of the teaching of Mohammad and are disgusted by it. On the other hand people every day try to find something wrong with the teachings of Jesus. But you hardly every see anyone find him wrong. They just bad mouth religion, implying Christianity.

I can show you SCRIPTURE from God (not Jesus) where he's commanded the rape of innocent virgins and the killing of unborn children.

Challenge?

 

[MarAzul]

I haven't read one post here that says religion and science can't work together but there are many examples throughout history where they haven't

Very true. No reason at all why religion and science are not compatible complementary parts of the human experience. But these things have no working part but for the men that participate.
Nothing anywhere says these men will work together and worse yet, no one is offering a grant to encourage this collaboration.

 

[MarAzul]

I can show you SCRIPTURE from God (not Jesus) where he's commanded the rape of innocent virgins and the killing of unborn children.

Challenge?

The word of God? Well I don't know about that, I suspect you will be showing a passage from the Jewish Torah which a portion of is included in the Old Testament. That is the way it was, the reason why Jesus began his teaching.

 

[magnifier661]

Apparently they do as well as anthropologists, and scholars who study human behavior..why wouldn't you? I haven't read one post here that says religion and science can't work together but there are many examples throughout history where they haven't

Your argument was the world thought the world was flat a couple hundred years ago. That means the general population. What a few believe has no relevance to your argument

 

[Mediocre Man]

I can show you SCRIPTURE from God (not Jesus) where he's commanded the rape of innocent virgins and the killing of unborn children.

Challenge?

I would challenge that. You will find it in the Bible, but that is not the word of God. God actually condemned all those things

 

[MarAzul]

I am a firm supporter of studying history, and encourage everyone to do so. Knowing where we have been is a big clue to knowing where we may be going. There is little doubt that science has been manipulated by many people and organizations in the past. We can now sit back and point a finger at them as say, “wow, they really fucked up”.

My point is, are we now also fucking up? Will our great-grandchildren point a finger at us and say, “Wow, they ignored warning signs that organizations with agendas were misusing science? Our great grand parents really fucked up.”

I firmly believe we are fucking up, and on many levels and issues. Most all organizations, politicians and individuals with power are now using only the parts of science that supports their agenda.

Example: There is a large group of people, including university professors that believe all fish hatcheries should be removed from our rivers because they are not a “Natural part of nature”. Then they use studies that show how native and hatchery fish behave differently in the rivers. They quote studies that show native fish appear to be more aggressive while hatchery fish appear to be less so. They then go on to say this proves how bad hatcheries are on the environment because native fish might spawn with hatchery fish, which would result in a weaker species.

So I read the entire study they quoted. Guess what I found out? While the study did show “some” native fish are more aggressive than “some” hatchery fish, it also showed “some” hatchery fish were more aggressive than “some” native fish. When you balanced out the behaviors, they were no differences between native and hatchery fish. They only used the part of the study that supported their agenda, and ignored the parts of the same study that proved their agenda was wrong.

I encourage everyone to spend more of their energy researching the information that is feed to them that is trying to gain their support of an agenda. The more research you do of today’s science, the more you will realize that we are FUCKING UP NOW, just like people did in the past.

Spot on Fisherman! I personally participated in capturing the first batch of Salmon raised in the Marion Forks hatchery. I have often asked the young biologist how it is that this species of fish got so screwed up that we need to kill them all, within the span of my lifetime? They can not answer. Most don't know that it began that short of time back. They have just drank the Koolaid and memorized the spiel. If the group in training at the U of O Marine science lab in Charleston Lab is representative we are in deep trouble. The are learning to be tools.

 

[riverman]

Your argument was the world thought the world was flat a couple hundred years ago. That means the general population. What a few believe has no relevance to your argument

you keep calling views arguments...I'm not biting..and using few believe in reference to my opinion is a judgement and a highly exaggerated one. Talk with me, not at me.

 

[magnifier661]

mags, you need to stop defining me for my views..I respect your views but that doesn't make me fucking pompous...I'm trying to have an objective conversation here but you are over the top defensive about your faith ...this is where religious wars sprouted from. Your thread asked a question...my views are the views of an agnostic who's interested in the Tao as a spiritual contemplation..not a Hatfield vs McCoy feud. I agree religious groups have funded good things from profits they've generated. Jimmy Carter is one of my heroes for his Habitat for Humanity campaign as well as Tsi Chi Buddhist foundation for their disaster relief efforts...my problem with one religious opposition to science is stem cell research. I work with the disabled 24 hours a week...many with Parkinson's or MS. The argument against stem cell research is in my view ..ridiculous. I'm happy to discuss things here but baiting opinions to create a divisive culture is part of the problem and has been for ages.

I'm just getting confused with your hyperbole or using straw man arguments. If you want to argue a circle is square, then do so. Don't use circle is square arguments for arguing a circle is circle

 

[magnifier661]

you keep calling views arguments...I'm not biting..and using few believe in reference to my opinion is a judgement and a highly exaggerated one. Talk with me, not at me.

When you disagree, we debate. You are taking this way too personal

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Uh, you best learn to interpret the teachings of Jesus. Speaking in parables was his style.
"Jesus spoke in parables - earthly stories with a heavenly meaning. He did so that his disciples would comprehend his teachings and that unbelievers would be without comprehension. Those interested in understanding the truth of his message would understand while those not interested would remain without understanding."

lol. says who?

 

[riverman]

When you disagree, we debate. You are taking this way too personal

no..I'm actually just weighing in on the topic and having opposing views does not mean we need to debate them. I'd rather discuss them objectively..this is where you lose discourse on a subject. We have different value systems and believe me, it's not personal

 

[3RA1N1AC]

 

[riverman]

I'm just getting confused with your hyperbole or using straw man arguments. If you want to argue a circle is square, then do so. Don't use circle is square arguments for arguing a circle is circle

More definitions to bait me..a circle is a square? Look in the mirror my friend because you're straying away from logic. Whatever gives you joy...even if it's calling me names and boxing my beliefs in a corner...hyperbole and straw man..these are your go to terms for discounting the opinions of others. it seems you're all about making topics personal but mags..that's not the process that leads to the solutions, that's the problem. Situation, problem, process, solution...you need to move past part two..the problem phase of discussion

 

[MarAzul]

lol. says who?

I did. And I gave you a quote from another. But I have no doubt you can find others that will tell you the same thing unless of course
you are one of the, uh ones that don't want to know.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[oldfisherman]

Spot on Fisherman! I personally participated in capturing the first batch of Salmon raised in the Marion Forks hatcher. I have often asked the young biologist how it is that this species of fish got so screwed up that we need to kill them all, within the span of my lifetime? They can not answer. Most don't know that it began that short of time back. They have just drank the Koolaid and memorized the spiel. If the group in training at the U of O Marine science lab in Charleston Lab is representative we are in deep trouble. The are learning to be tools.

Agree 110%.

Countless fish and animals are now being killed by the very governmental agencies responsible for their management. The killing of hatchery raised Salmon is just one sad example.

The special interest groups that claim to by trying to "Save the Salmon" also support the killing of the hatchery Salmon. Actually, I can make a case that the special interest group’s goal is to kill off as many of a species they are trying to save as possible.

Reason, when the population of a species drops below a certain level, it will be listed as endangered under the ESA (Endangered Species Act). An endangered species listing trumps all other legal and governmental regulations, treaties or legal filings. Which means all harvesting of the fish or animal by anyone for any reason must stop.

That is the Universities agenda, to stop fishing and hunting, no mater how many fish and animals they need to kill to do it. Their best and least expensive tool to achieve their agenda is the ESA.

Sadly, it is the professors in the OR & WA universities that are behind a lot of the misinformation studies being used to support environmental agendas. They are creating faulty studies taught to students (funded by a foundation with a stop all fishing and hunting agenda) with the cover story of returning the ecosystem to a more natural state. Natural is a much easier sell than the truth about them wanting to stop some activity.

I had a long discussion once with a student of the U of O science lab. He admitted to me that he knew what was being taught was wrong, but to get a passing grade, he had to agree with the professor. I can only hope more young people have the common sense he does, so when they are working in a job with influence over environmental decisions, they will do what is right, not what is wrong based on misleading science taught in a school with an agenda.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I did. And I gave you a quote from another. But I have no doubt you can find others that will tell you the same thing unless of course
you are one of the, uh ones that don't want to know.

why should anyone take your word for what jesus "really meant"? when people have their own interpretation of gods words, does that make it so?

 

[magnifier661]

More definitions to bait me..a circle is a square? Look in the mirror my friend because you're straying away from logic. Whatever gives you joy...even if it's calling me names and boxing my beliefs in a corner...hyperbole and straw man..these are your go to terms for discounting the opinions of others. it seems you're all about making topics personal but mags..that's not the process that leads to the solutions, that's the problem. Situation, problem, process, solution...you need to move past part two..the problem phase of discussion

Your discussion said the world viewed the earth being flat a few hundred years ago. The world view was thousand plus years ago. End of story

 

[magnifier661]

no..I'm actually just weighing in on the topic and having opposing views does not mean we need to debate them. I'd rather discuss them objectively..this is where you lose discourse on a subject. We have different value systems and believe me, it's not personal

Good, so we agree that religion and science can coexist. Time to move on

 

[riverman]

Your discussion said the world viewed the earth being flat a few hundred years ago. The world view was thousand plus years ago. End of story

I explained the analogy but like I said, no matter the timeline..science was wrong over the course of time. They've also been very right over the same period..the story never ends mags..