Politics Why don't Republicans care?

[jonnyboy]

The other things in life exist, but can't we parse them?

Let’s parse. You can bitch about Ukraine phone calls and I’ll bitch about bombs getting dropped on children. Some things are more important than others. Since most of the country is worried about your scandal of choice, I’ll be one of the very few worrying about the latter. Although It may not be your place to question my ‘conscious, pride or integrity’ for not brushing aside genocides.
With that being said, sorry for straying off topic. I hope you find the one or so Republicans in this forum to engage you on the actual thread topic. Look like Maris already has, so it will be slim pickins from here on out.

 

[Lanny]

Nope.

One of my favorite comedians. I especially recommend any of the Black Adder episodes.

 

[jonnyboy]

 

[Propagandist]

Let’s parse. You can bitch about Ukraine phone calls and I’ll bitch about bombs getting dropped on children. Some things are more important than others. Since most of the country is worried about your scandal of choice, I’ll be one of the very few worrying about the latter. Although It may not be your place to question my ‘conscious, pride or integrity’ for not brushing aside genocides.
With that being said, sorry for straying off topic. I hope you find the one or so Republicans in this forum to engage you on the actual thread topic. Look like Maris already has, so it will be slim pickins from here on out.

Well, in reality the Ukraine phone call has to do with the very same things you are talking about. The strong abusing the weak. Trump holding back funds, for any reason, puts Ukraine at further risk of Russian aggression. For Americans it is a phone call perhaps, but for Ukrainians it is a deterrent. (That is, incidentally, why it is so infuriating when people say things like: "Zelensky says there was no quid pro quo" as if he has a choice on what he can say.)

Why talk about anything but just the worst of the worst? Create a genocide thread and we can talk about that if you want too! But because this isn't genocide doesn't mean it isn't important. Likewise, this is not "just a scandal," and that stance is sort of why this thread exists. It's as if we are all looking at the same thing and some of us are closing one eye or squinting or turning our heads upside-down or closing our eyes altogether trying claiming we aren't.

 

[Stevenson]

The continued feigning of ignorance to the crimes and election rigging of Biden/Obama's Administration/Kerry/Clinton/DNC and everyone connected to them in Ukraine which started long before Trump was even running make your thread, has been asked and answered in nearly every single thread about the fake hoax, the fake reports, the fake outrage, the deliberate downplaying and media blackout of Trump's massive victories for Americans freedoms, economic gains and security against threats from without and within, the fake impeachment...

Every criticism of, and attack on Trump is simply Deep State noise desperately working to prevent prosecution of America's most prolific treason ring ever.

Puppet on...

Isn't it sad that no one can take anything you say seriously?

 

[Propagandist]

I really just enjoy the irony. There are way more egregious offenses Trump has committed that he could (and probably should) be impeached for. Selling weapons to SA to further their genocide in Yemen? Nearly starting a war with Iran by ambushing their top general WITHOUT congressional authorization?
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
What’s wrong with these scandals that happen to have actually have dead bodies attached to them?
Oh yeah, the Democrats are equally guilty because they vote for, and/or actively support all these interventionist, for profit policies, they can’t say anything. In order to get their impeachment they have to go picking peanuts out of shit to find some half-assed scandal. It’s all bullshit theatre when you consider the actual dysfunction going on with the American political system as a whole.

I always get a little jolt when someone throws an irony dart my way, so I reflected a little and I just wanted to add that the weapons sales in particular pisses me off so much I can feel adrenaline in my veins when I think about it. It's wallpunch worthy. So, yes, the irony that we are arguing about the semantics of a phone call instead of being an accessory to mass murder is bullshit.

BUT that's where we are and where we are, while nowhere near as serious, is legitimate. It is clearly a failure in comparison. The hope is the magnifying glass will open people's eyes to the other things............................................I guess.

 

[Road Ratt]

If the republicans had this much evidence on Hillary over Benghazi, as there is on Trump over Ukraine,... she would be in jail right now.

 

[julius]

If the republicans had this much evidence on Hillary over Benghazi, as there is on Trump over Ukraine,... she would be in jail right now.

If you ask them, they had 10X the amount of evidence, but the swamp swallowed it up or something.

 

[CupWizier]

If the republicans had this much evidence on Hillary over Benghazi, as there is on Trump over Ukraine,... she would be in jail right now.

I think an investigation on Benghazi and Hillary needs to be opened.

 

[ABM]

I think part of it is just that Republicans are hostile to government itself. For the past 40 years or so, they've believed that government itself is bad, wasteful, corrupt, useless, etc.

Afterall, who is government? Oh, and don't forget about those pesky Libertarians. They may be on to something.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I understand this version of the OT Forum isn't what it once was, and political debate is mostly an echo chamber, but I still must ask: Why don't Republicans care what Trump did in Ukraine?

If Obama used foreign aid to shake down a foreign government for personal gain, you would be in an uproar.

And I get (well, not really) if you think it doesn't rise to the level of Impeachment. But that's not the general GOP take. You just shrug it off and yell 'fake news!'

Anyone have the ability to answer rationally?

Maybe its not that we don't care but we are tired of the presumed labels just like the title of your thread?

instead of asking why we don't care? How about asking first if we do care?

This is the type of accusational conversation starter that prevents me from even wanting to participate, because i know nothing positive will come from it when the introductory title is an accusational slam in its own right.

that goes for both sides/parties.


If i wanted to know why dems support hilary for example, i wouldnt ask” why do dems support that vile lieing ****?

Or “what is wrong with the people that support Hilary?”

just my opinion....

 

[oldfisherman]

Maybe its not that we don't care but we are tired of the presumed labels just like the title of your thread?

instead of asking why we don't care? How about asking first if we do care?

This is the type of accusational conversation starter that prevents me from even wanting to participate, because i know nothing positive will come from it when the introductory title is an accusational slam in its own right.

that goes for both sides/parties.


If i wanted to know why dems support hilary for example, i wouldnt ask” why do dems support that vile lieing ****?

Or “what is wrong with the people that support Hilary?”

just my opinion....

Perfect.

Another example.
Why don't Dems care about border security? They did in the past.

 

[Stevenson]

Perfect.

Another example.
Why don't Dems care about border security? They did in the past.

Because for me at least, I think it's a made up issue used by Trump to gin up the base.

And it worked. Where's the hordes that were supposed to invade us? Oh, right, the election is over so that issue is over. The wall was just a device to get him to remember to discuss immigration on the campaign trail.

 

[Propagandist]

Maybe its not that we don't care but we are tired of the presumed labels just like the title of your thread?

instead of asking why we don't care? How about asking first if we do care?

This is the type of accusational conversation starter that prevents me from even wanting to participate, because i know nothing positive will come from it when the introductory title is an accusational slam in its own right.

that goes for both sides/parties.


If i wanted to know why dems support hilary for example, i wouldnt ask” why do dems support that vile lieing ****?

Or “what is wrong with the people that support Hilary?”

just my opinion....

Maybe you are being unfairly grouped into the mass majority of Republicans here, but unfortunately, as informed by the Senate and the news stations and Republicans I know, asking Republicans if they do care instead of why they don't might come off as uninformed. Or just plain sarcastic. I know one single Republican who broke with Trump from the get-go (for all the reasons) and I respect him so, so much for putting country before party. But he is the only one. Also it's much harder to phrase the question the way you're asking (see ahead).

But it's nice to know that maybe you do care. Or I'll ask the question so you can see how weird it reads: Do you care that Donald J. Trump has committed impeachable offenses? Haha. I feel like a robot.

As for the Hillary thing. I don't believe I'm alone in saying: enough about Hillary. Hillary isn't President. Few people wanted her to be President, they were just faced with a very, very tough choice. And she's not pertinent to the discussion.

Perfect.

Another example.
Why don't Dems care about border security? They did in the past.

It might be a subconscious push, or just plain lashing out, but the topic of the day is Trump's impeachment and why the Right doesn't take it seriously, or SEEM (that's for you OB!) to care. Bringing up all these other things smacks of a cornered dog... No offense, Sly.

BUT, I'm always down to address things. Border Security. Of course, border security is important to everyone. And it is an issue. Mostly because it is a humanitarian crisis. I think what's happened is the ship is tipping so far towards the inhumane that you're seeing an outpouring of "Holy shit, I'd rather let them all in rather than pen them like pigs or tear their children away or make them sleep on concrete floors or make asylum seekers live in unmonitored camps on the Mexico side of the border where they are regularly kidnapped and ransomed or...."

The Statue of Liberty bears the words of an Emma Lazarus poem titled The New Colossus. It's not law or anything, but it's worth a read since I think it reflects America's once-view on immigration:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

[Orion Bailey]

Maybe you are being unfairly grouped into the mass majority of Republicans here, but unfortunately, as informed by the Senate and the news stations and Republicans I know, asking Republicans if they do care instead of why they don't might come off as uninformed. Or just plain sarcastic. I know one single Republican who broke with Trump from the get-go (for all the reasons) and I respect him so, so much for putting country before party. But he is the only one. Also it's much harder to phrase the question the way you're asking (see ahead).

But it's nice to know that maybe you do care. Or I'll ask the question so you can see how weird it reads: Do you care that Donald J. Trump has committed impeachable offenses? Haha. I feel like a robot.

As for the Hillary thing. I don't believe I'm alone in saying: enough about Hillary. Hillary isn't President. Few people wanted her to be President, they were just faced with a very, very tough choice. And she's not pertinent to the discussion.



It might be a subconscious push, or just plain lashing out, but the topic of the day is Trump's impeachment and why the Right doesn't take it seriously, or SEEM (that's for you OB!) to care. Bringing up all these other things smacks of a cornered dog... No offense, Sly.

BUT, I'm always down to address things. Border Security. Of course, border security is important to everyone. And it is an issue. Mostly because it is a humanitarian crisis. I think what's happened is the ship is tipping so far towards the inhumane that you're seeing an outpouring of "Holy shit, I'd rather let them all in rather than pen them like pigs or tear their children away or make them sleep on concrete floors or make asylum seekers live in unmonitored camps on the Mexico side of the border where they are regularly kidnapped and ransomed or...."

The Statue of Liberty bears the words of an Emma Lazarus poem titled The New Colossus. It's not law or anything, but it's worth a read since I think it reflects America's once-view on immigration:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

maybe it is just me but the way you phrased the question i would take as a respectful question that deserves an honest, mature answer.

The hilary comment was to show the opposite side, so its very relevant regardless of her current governmental status.

i think my point is, and i said it goes to both sides, is the attacking accusational comments to try to initiate a mature discussion will almost always fail. You need look no further than this forum to find evidence of this.

people respond much better and rationally when they don't think they are being attacked while simultaneously being asked an opinionated question.
Its just respect. there is no respect from either side.

Our founding fathers had immense respect for the opposing parties. How and when things changed, I'm not sure, but i know it wont change back as long as ww try to initiate discussions with finger pointing accusations.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Because for me at least, I think it's a made up issue used by Trump to gin up the base.

And it worked. Where's the hordes that were supposed to invade us? Oh, right, the election is over so that issue is over. The wall was just a device to get him to remember to discuss immigration on the campaign trail.

Uggghhhhhhh. Waiting for my wife at the store so checked back in.

This illegal immigration denial is why people don't take Democrats seriously. It's literally the top reason Trump will win again if he does.

I read an article about black AMERICANS getting the jobs at a chicken plant after ICE arrested hundreds of illegals at the plant.

The plant had to raise wages to attract Americans and they hired a ton of black guys. One when interviewed said he was glad to have the job but he felt bad for STEALING the illegal's job.

It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something....brainwashing people so much that they feel they stole a guy's job who stole it in the first place.

Joe Biden will come around when an illegal takes one of Hunter's phony board positions. Until then...fuck us all amirite?

I'd sieze the fucking chicken plant if I were dictator but whatever.

Let's not even go into how much work Trump has put in behind the scenes to get Mexico and other countries to actually help with this.

Then you "liberals" throw up your hands and walk away from our homeless problems and feel fine about yourselves as long as your big democrat shithole city throws millions of dollars as it.

We need a mashup movie of Idiocracy and Elysium to see what the future really holds.

 

[Hoopguru]

Afterall, who is government? Oh, and don't forget about those pesky Libertarians. They may be on to something.

Having grown up in the 50/60's I must admit its a bit strange to see younger people embracing social democratic, larger government. The flower children of the 60's were not just anti Viet Nam but anti government for the most part.
As a libertarian I can stand back and plainly see that a significant third party would help neutralize some of the polarization of the lefties and righties. But even if that happens they both want huge government which I don't think was in the spirit of the founding fathers or really what capitalism is about. We will never be as intended a free enterprise economy but a mixed enterprise economy as the government has gotten much bigger regardless of party control to ever allow for a free enterprise economy with a small limited government. Just my two cents worth...

 

[ABM]

Uggghhhhhhh. Waiting for my wife at the store so checked back in.

This illegal immigration denial is why people don't take Democrats seriously. It's literally the top reason Trump will win again if he does.

I read an article about black AMERICANS getting the jobs at a chicken plant after ICE arrested hundreds of illegals at the plant.

The plant had to raise wages to attract Americans and they hired a ton of black guys. One when interviewed said he was glad to have the job but he felt bad for STEALING the illegal's job.

It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something....brainwashing people so much that they feel they stole a guy's job who stole it in the first place.

Joe Biden will come around when an illegal takes one of Hunter's phony board positions. Until then...fuck us all amirite?

I'd sieze the fucking chicken plant if I were dictator but whatever.

Let's not even go into how much work Trump has put in behind the scenes to get Mexico and other countries to actually help with this.

Then you "liberals" throw up your hands and walk away from our homeless problems and feel fine about yourselves as long as your big democrat shithole city throws millions of dollars as it.

We need a mashup movie of Idiocracy and Elysium to see what the future really holds.

Dole 'em out....just to clean 'em up....

 

[barfo]

Oh, and don't forget about those pesky Libertarians. They may be on to something.

They aren't, but they think they are. It's kind of cute.

barfo

 

[Propagandist]

maybe it is just me but the way you phrased the question i would take as a respectful question that deserves an honest, mature answer.

The hilary comment was to show the opposite side, so its very relevant regardless of her current governmental status.

i think my point is, and i said it goes to both sides, is the attacking accusational comments to try to initiate a mature discussion will almost always fail. You need look no further than this forum to find evidence of this.

people respond much better and rationally when they don't think they are being attacked while simultaneously being asked an opinionated question.
Its just respect. there is no respect from either side.

Our founding fathers had immense respect for the opposing parties. How and when things changed, I'm not sure, but i know it wont change back as long as ww try to initiate discussions with finger pointing accusations.

That's kind of the whole point of this: you can't phrase it right. This is about an impeachment trial with overwhelming evidence which is full circle back to the question: how can Republicans just gloss over this stuff? AND not be embarrassed to bring up civilians like Hillary Clinton or Hunter Biden as some sort of evidence or opposite side? There is no opposites here is the point. You and I are on the SAME side. OUR President has many many times broken the law and on this one instance they are impeaching him. He, and others believe me I know, is not on your side or my side, he is on his side. We are America and he is a crook.

This is where the disconnect lies. Extremes have been reached. So, for example, arguing about Trump to people that aren't under his spell, is almost surreal. He is not a good guy so it's really hard to have a fair debate about him. Or immigration, as another example. They separate children from their parents for months! That's extreme. I personally have a difficult time with the "well, they should've gone through the proper channels and that's what you get" people. I don't think there's ever an excuse for being inhumane. So, it's hard. It's hard on the internet (I don't know why I do it). It's hard in person. Because this is not a debate about policy. It's ideology! Suddenly there are opposing ideologies in the UNITED States. I and the like see the behavior of Trump as draconian and classless and extremely harmful to the fabric of our country, and the other side doesn't and calls us snowflakes or something like that. Compassion and thought over impulsiveness and force, I say, but what do I know.

I am a reasonable guy, I promise you (sounds fishy I know). And I'm going to say something that is going to piss everyone off at me, but fuck it. The Tribalism that is freaking me out is, in my opinion, the result of this fear cult. I mean, I saw it under Obama, believe me, the Hope stuff. People overjoyed like he was some profound figure. I actually believe that a pendulum swing in the other direction is what we are dealing with, but with each swing, the division grows. It doesn't repair inbetween and that is worrisome. But I digress...

I don't believe in stuff that a lot other people do. I won't argue about it here because I've learned the hard way that people of faith (for the most part) don't like being poked and prodded and it just isn't worth it. BUT what I've found, for the first time in my life, is that talking politics with the Republicans I know at this moment, the Trump moment, is like talking to believers. It comes down to how they feel! Now the word irony sure pisses people off, BUT it is ironic that the Trump faithful are willing to ignore everything, literally everything for their snowflaky obsession with this guy. "It's a conspiracy" "It's a witch hunt" "It's the (speaking of irony) Swamp" "The Deep (also ironic) State" "Fake News" "Liberal Media" Let's just take that list. The theme here is what? You can't trust your eyes and ears! You must give up your senses to believe this president! You must literally believe that somehow someway the world is colluding to make him look like a criminal and plant evidence and so forth. It's faith, and it's deifying a guy that doesn't even deserve your friendship, let alone your country.

And I'm speaking for myself here, but I'm sure most Liberals would agree. If Hillary or Hunter Biden or anyone has committed a crime or commits a crime, then they should be investigated and the results should be the results. However, THIS has nothing to do with THAT. But I think this is an important distinction, and kind of harkens back to the culty thing, for me it most definitely isn't people based. If someone is bad, fuck 'em, because the important thing is the system of beliefs not some person in office. And that's what troubles me the most! Why are people siding with a person over the ideas and principles of what it means to be an American?!?

 

[barfo]

maybe it is just me but the way you phrased the question i would take as a respectful question that deserves an honest, mature answer.

So where's your answer to his question?

barfo

 

[oldfisherman]

Ugggh

This illegal immigration denial is why people don't take Democrats seriously. It's literally the top reason Trump will win again if he does.

This 110%.

Question for all those in denial about our border security problem.

After you eliminate wars and military conflicts. Which border area in the world has the most violent crimes? Serious crimes such as murders if you want an easy way to look it up.

 

[MARIS61]

The Statue of Liberty bears the words of an Emma Lazarus poem titled The New Colossus. It's not law or anything, but it's worth a read since I think it reflects America's once-view on immigration:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

The Statue of Liberty's original purpose was to celebrate the friendship between America and France, how it helped Americans achieve liberty, and most importantly celebrate our Republic which guarantees that liberty.

It had nothing whatsoever to do with immigration, welcoming immigrants, or even acknowledging immigrants.

The poem was added nearly 2 decades after the statue was placed, 38 years after it's creation began, by elite liberal activists against the wishes of many Americans and the artist who created it in the first place. Defacing an historic monument from an ally and converting it to a political ad.

The modern day equivalent of Michael Jackson buying The Beatles' songs, then selling them to be used for advertising products.

 

[twobullz]

This 110%.

Question for all those in denial about our border security problem.

After you eliminate wars and military conflicts. Which border area in the world has the most violent crimes? Serious crimes such as murders if you want an easy way to look it up.

The thing is most illegal aliens in the US overstay their visa's but republicans could care less about those people, they just want to focus on the ones coming across one border. So it is not illegal aliens are so worried and focused on, they just focus on Hispanics. But once again that is just the republican way. this discussion is why don't republicans care about the wrongs trump does. None will answer that questions they just will try to deflect and change the subject. This discussion has nothing to do with HIllary, Obama, Biden, the border, those are just the go to tactics to change a subject because they won't admit that we have the most corrupt President in the history of this country in the office right now.

 

[Orion Bailey]

That's kind of the whole point of this: you can't phrase it right. This is about an impeachment trial with overwhelming evidence which is full circle back to the question: how can Republicans just gloss over this stuff? AND not be embarrassed to bring up civilians like Hillary Clinton or Hunter Biden as some sort of evidence or opposite side? There is no opposites here is the point. You and I are on the SAME side. OUR President has many many times broken the law and on this one instance they are impeaching him. He, and others believe me I know, is not on your side or my side, he is on his side. We are America and he is a crook.

This is where the disconnect lies. Extremes have been reached. So, for example, arguing about Trump to people that aren't under his spell, is almost surreal. He is not a good guy so it's really hard to have a fair debate about him. Or immigration, as another example. They separate children from their parents for months! That's extreme. I personally have a difficult time with the "well, they should've gone through the proper channels and that's what you get" people. I don't think there's ever an excuse for being inhumane. So, it's hard. It's hard on the internet (I don't know why I do it). It's hard in person. Because this is not a debate about policy. It's ideology! Suddenly there are opposing ideologies in the UNITED States. I and the like see the behavior of Trump as draconian and classless and extremely harmful to the fabric of our country, and the other side doesn't and calls us snowflakes or something like that. Compassion and thought over impulsiveness and force, I say, but what do I know.

I am a reasonable guy, I promise you (sounds fishy I know). And I'm going to say something that is going to piss everyone off at me, but fuck it. The Tribalism that is freaking me out is, in my opinion, the result of this fear cult. I mean, I saw it under Obama, believe me, the Hope stuff. People overjoyed like he was some profound figure. I actually believe that a pendulum swing in the other direction is what we are dealing with, but with each swing, the division grows. It doesn't repair inbetween and that is worrisome. But I digress...

I don't believe in stuff that a lot other people do. I won't argue about it here because I've learned the hard way that people of faith (for the most part) don't like being poked and prodded and it just isn't worth it. BUT what I've found, for the first time in my life, is that talking politics with the Republicans I know at this moment, the Trump moment, is like talking to believers. It comes down to how they feel! Now the word irony sure pisses people off, BUT it is ironic that the Trump faithful are willing to ignore everything, literally everything for their snowflaky obsession with this guy. "It's a conspiracy" "It's a witch hunt" "It's the (speaking of irony) Swamp" "The Deep (also ironic) State" "Fake News" "Liberal Media" Let's just take that list. The theme here is what? You can't trust your eyes and ears! You must give up your senses to believe this president! You must literally believe that somehow someway the world is colluding to make him look like a criminal and plant evidence and so forth. It's faith, and it's deifying a guy that doesn't even deserve your friendship, let alone your country.

And I'm speaking for myself here, but I'm sure most Liberals would agree. If Hillary or Hunter Biden or anyone has committed a crime or commits a crime, then they should be investigated and the results should be the results. However, THIS has nothing to do with THAT. But I think this is an important distinction, and kind of harkens back to the culty thing, for me it most definitely isn't people based. If someone is bad, fuck 'em, because the important thing is the system of beliefs not some person in office. And that's what troubles me the most! Why are people siding with a person over the ideas and principles of what it means to be an American?!?

very solid post!

i cant say i disagree with much of this. I would, however, like to point out, that to the non trump supporting republics, many of the dems come off very much the same...”believers”. especially when you bring Antifa into the discussion.
The other thing i would like to point out is that i don't think there has been a president who hasn't lied.
By no means am i making excuses, as i do believe one of the major political problems we have is lack of trust in our leaders, stemmed from their dishonesty.
But to say that Trump is the antichrist creating divide in this country because of this, is disingenuous and i would hope that rational dems would be able to separate themselves from the extremes that do believe this and i don't really see it happening.
i see a larger divide between trump republicans and nontrump republicans, than i do dems and extremists dems.
With that said i don't see all.

I 100% agree on the pendulum reference though. Thats a very good analogy of the situation, which also ties into my point.
Regardless of how anyone feels about trump, the only way to stop this pendulum from flipping completely upside down into anarchy is to drop the extremisms and the accusations of wrongdoings of the past and look for solutions for partisan communication to provide answers on how to make things better moving forward.
Right now i see many more dems not working on solutions, but pointing fingers.

saw a great meme the other day.

republicans 2020 campaign agenda:

Illegal immigrant control
foreign relations
Tax cuts
Economic stimuli


Democrats 2020 campaign agenda:

hate trump
Impeach trump
Attack trump


Not so far from the truth from what i see.
If only i heard more positive ideas and solutions for the future from the dems, i might be influenced to vote for a dem candidate, but as long as its just a hate driven agenda, it turns me back to vote my party line.

this pendulum started before Trump, as you noted, and so i do not hold him responsible for it happening.
I do however, hold him responsible for letting it continue to grow or not trying to stem the division. there is no doubt he is not a unifier. But i also don't see him as the antichrist like so many like to paint him out to be.

 

[Orion Bailey]

So where's your answer to his question?

barfo

read my previous post. I think it pretty much answers it?

 

[oldfisherman]

The thing is most illegal aliens in the US overstay their visa's but republicans could care less about those people, they just want to focus on the ones coming across one border. So it is not illegal aliens are so worried and focused on, they just focus on Hispanics. But once again that is just the republican way. this discussion is why don't republicans care about the wrongs trump does. None will answer that questions they just will try to deflect and change the subject. This discussion has nothing to do with HIllary, Obama, Biden, the border, those are just the go to tactics to change a subject because they won't admit that we have the most corrupt President in the history of this country in the office right now.

The focus is not on Hispanics. The focus is on anyone that can harm our country and citizens.

It is well known that terrorist organizations have working relations with drug/people smugglers in Mexico.

Here is the point the dems are missing.

I do not believe Trumps wall is the best answer to this problem. But, it is a far better answer than the dems response of leading their tribe over a cliff and diving head first into quicksand.

My point is, the dems need to be selling a better product than Trump. Come up with a better plan that addresses immigration issues, both outside and inside our country, and I will vote for it.

Beat Trump at his own game.

 

[twobullz]

The focus is not on Hispanics. The focus is on anyone that can harm our country and citizens.

It is well known that terrorist organizations have working relations with drug/people smugglers in Mexico.

Here is the point the dems are missing.

I do not believe Trumps wall is the best answer to this problem. But, it is a far better answer than the dems response of leading their tribe over a cliff and diving head first into quicksand.

My point is, the dems need to be selling a better product than Trump. Come up with a better plan that addresses immigration issues, both outside and inside our country, and I will vote for it.

Beat Trump at his own game.

So what you are saying is you don't care about any of the illegal things trump has done. All you care about is the southern border. Really that is your biggest issue?

That right there is the issue. You could care less about the fact that the entire world is laughing at our leadership. You could care less about how corrupt Trump is. All that matters is keeping people from crossing the southern border. Drugs and bad people are coming in through all points of entries, at massive rates and all you are focusing on is one, where the hispanics are coming from. No matter how you spin it that is the only border and issue that trump supporters care about. And trump understand this and will keep spinning it as such a major issue to keep you and all his other supporters from opening your eyes and seeing just what a corrupt individual he is.

 

[ABM]

They aren't, but they think they are. It's kind of cute.

barfo

A pirate calling something "cute" is problematic at best. But, anyway, plank on.

 

[CupWizier]

Beat Trump at his own game.

His game is lying and attacking innocent people with derogatory names and hooking up with criminals and enabling them. . He also is obsessed with anything that has Obama attached to it as he continually tries to destroy policies that were passed during that administration. Is that the game the rest of the country needs to adhere to? He doesn't care if it helps the country he just cares that anything Obama did is eliminated.