Will we have to wait for Olshey to leave before we get a backup PG?

[Hoopguru]

The NBA is FANtastic!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I haven't given up hope of signing a PG to a 2-way. I'm intrigued by this guy, although he'll probably just stay in France

 

[calvin natt]

you guys seem to want to re-litigate last year's failures. I'm fine with that by the way

I just want to point out that what started this was Hoopguru just saying Olshey was high on Elleby and I just commented that Olshey was also high on Hezonja. HG said he didn't recall that so I simply posted some links with my usual snark

of course Olshey embellishes and spews bullshit. And of course other GM's do the same when talking about their own job perfomance. A GM who comes out during the off-season and says he put together a weak flawed roster won't have a job long, unless he's catfishing the rest of the league and his team wins it all

and yeah, Portland had injuries last year but when Olshey was praising the talent of that team it was known that Nurkic was going to miss months of the season. Thus Whiteside. And when Hood got injured, the Blazers were only 8-12 with Hood, so there were other issues than injuries. And some of us, including myself, were saying that if either Whiteside or Zach got hurt, Portland would be in trouble because there was nothing behind them on this supposed deep and talented roster.

and frankly Kj, offering what people say in this forum as a defense of what Olshey says doesn't make sense to me. Olshey is the only one of "us" that is making 3 million a year to evaluate talent and build a roster

True. If Nurkic, Whiteside or Zach all got hurt there wouldn’t be much depth behind them. What teams can keep losing players and have *good* depth left over?

 

[RoseCityRebel]

Which elite back-up PG wants to play 12mpg at best with a healthy backcourt?

 

[wizenheimer]

Which elite back-up PG wants to play 12mpg at best with a healthy backcourt?

c'mon man....an "elite" backup PG would play a lot more than 12 minutes. Simons averaged 21 minutes a game last season and he sucked

 

[RoseCityRebel]

c'mon man....an "elite" backup PG would play a lot more than 12 minutes. Simons averaged 21 minutes a game last season and he sucked

View attachment 35218

Most of his minutes were at SG. CJ mainly is the primary PG when Lillard is off the court. Even BBR.com lists Simons as a SG, because that’s what he is.

I’m wondering who would want to come to Portland as a true PG and play PG the 10-12 minutes Lillard a night is on the bench.

Simons played hardly any PG. Why would Stotts ever play an All-NBA PG in Lillard at SG for 9 minutes of his time on the court in favor of a lesser PG off the bench?

 

[wizenheimer]

Most of his minutes were at SG. CJ mainly is the primary PG when Lillard is off the court. Even BBR.com lists Simons as a SG, because that’s what he is.

I’m wondering who would want to come to Portland as a true PG and play PG the 10-12 minutes Lillard a night is on the bench.

Simons played hardly any PG. Why would Stotts ever play an All-NBA PG in Lillard at SG for 9 minutes of his time on the court in favor of a lesser PG off the bench?

Somebody like Hill would take Simons minutes (and some of CJ's). He's a far better PG and a far better SG.

if Hill and CJ shared the floor, Hill would play as a PG as much, if not more, than CJ

all we really know is that when Portland has had scrubs as backup PG's they don't get much burn. But "elite" PG's (your term) are really good basketball players and Stotts would give one plenty of minutes

 

[Big Dog]

Somebody like Hill would take Simons minutes (and some of CJ's). He's a far better PG and a far better SG.

if Hill and CJ shared the floor, Hill would play as a PG as much, if not more, than CJ

all we really know is that when Portland has had scrubs as backup PG's they don't get much burn. But "elite" PG's (your term) are really good basketball players and Stotts would give one plenty of minutes

CJ is the back up PG at this stage and bringing in a 3rd string pg right now isn't really a priority as he would likely be sitting at the end of the bench or in street clothes.

 

[wizenheimer]

CJ is the back up PG at this stage and bringing in a 3rd string pg right now isn't really a priority as he would likely be sitting at the end of the bench or in street clothes.

I'm not saying it is a priority, and I'm not talking about a "3rd string" PG; straw men all over the fucking place.....I'm just talking about what a good backup PG would do and be worth

and for chrissakes....the reason there is all this debate about a backup PG is 5 long years of CJ filling that role and lots of people judging that to be inadequate

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sad to me that guys like Harrison, Wanamaker and Okobo are all still sitting out there without a deal, and we're sitting here with an open roster spot, but pressed up against the tax line. The curse of Andrew Nicholson continues to rear its ugly head.

 

[wizenheimer]

Sad to me that guys like Harrison, Wanamaker and Okobo are all still sitting out there without a deal, and we're sitting here with an open roster spot, but pressed up against the tax line. The curse of Andrew Nicholson continues to rear its ugly head.

don't forget the dead salary of 1.9M for Anderson Varejao. That's a vet minum deal Portland can't use because they spent 5 seasons of 1.9M on the cap for the pick they used on Swanigan

that had to be the most expensive 26th pick in NBA history

 

[Big Dog]

I'm not saying it is a priority, and I'm not talking about a "3rd string" PG; straw men all over the fucking place.....I'm just talking about what a good backup PG would do and be worth

and for chrissakes....the reason there is all this debate about a backup PG is 5 long years of CJ filling that role and lots of people judging that to be inadequate

Geesh. Relax and enjoy discussions. No reason to get all worked up over opinions. I have no problem CJ running the point for limited minutes as he is likely better than any pg we could afford to pick up.

 

[wizenheimer]

Geesh. Relax and enjoy discussions. No reason to get all worked up over opinions. I have no problem CJ running the point for limited minutes as he is likely better than any pg we could afford to pick up.

sorry

I wasn't advocating the Blazers using their MLE, this off-season, on a backup PG

but I am saying that compared to CJ and Simons, many people are undervaluing the impact a good backup PG would have on Portland's performance. I'm not talking somebody like Earl Watson or Napier. Rather, a player like Rondo or George Hill. I would have liked to see that option tried two or three seasons ago. And it sure would have been better to go that route in 2016 instead of spending 70 million on Evan Turner

 

[MickZagger]

Tim Frazier available?

 

[Tince]

People need to write down the minutes ALL the guys on the roster would be getting now, then add in your favorite backup PG and show who you'd be taking those minutes from. Ant should not be in the rotation this year unless he's improved drastically. Adding 12-16 minutes means you're taking minutes away from Trent, Hood, and DJJ... all of which probably won't play as many minutes as they could/should.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

People need to write down the minutes ALL the guys on the roster would be getting now, then add in your favorite backup PG and show who you'd be taking those minutes from. Ant should not be in the rotation this year unless he's improved drastically. Adding 12-16 minutes means you're taking minutes away from Trent, Hood, and DJJ... all of which probably won't play as many minutes as they could/should.

I agree with you - there aren't 12-16 mpg to give away to a PG. However, I think we need a good backup PG for a different reason, which has to do with basic Threat/Answer theory.

Threat: opposing teams have multiple scorers that are scoring a lot against us.
Answers: Jones/Nurk/RoCo/Collins, ...

Threat: injuries
Answers: depth (check!)

Threat: Teams successfully trapping us
Answers: 3 point shooting (yes!) and an extra ballhandler (oops!).

I don't think that this last situation comes up that often, but when it does, it feels like we have no answer. Imagine if we even had Napier. Sub Napier for CJ, and trapping us will stop working immediately. That doesn't mean we need to play Napier 12-15 mpg.

That's why I'm so excited about this offseason. We now have a lot of good answers to different threats. Of course, we didn't get a top 20 player or anything, so I can see why others aren't as excited as I am.

 

[wizenheimer]

People need to write down the minutes ALL the guys on the roster would be getting now, then add in your favorite backup PG and show who you'd be taking those minutes from. Ant should not be in the rotation this year unless he's improved drastically. Adding 12-16 minutes means you're taking minutes away from Trent, Hood, and DJJ... all of which probably won't play as many minutes as they could/should.

not sure what you're getting at...?



Simons averaged 21 minutes last season. CJ averaged 37; Hood averaged 30, when he played; Bazemore averaged 26 & Trent averaged 22

Simons sucks so there is a starting baseline of 20 minutes a game. CJ can give up 4 or 5. Dame could do with a couple fewer minutes a game. And there are probably 3-5 more minutes that could be 'squeezed' out of other players.

That gets a good backup PG up to the 25-30 minutes range. Now, I said good backup PG. I'm not talking about a Napier or a Frazier or any other 3rd string scrub that Portland could bring in on a minimum deal. I know many are talking about a guy like that but I think that's a mostly useless player

I am thinking along the lines of a George Hill or a Rondo. And yeah, that would have required the MLE deal and I know many are excited about Jones. I've been wanting a good backup PG for years. A veteran that knows how to run offense. But it ain't going to happen. However, it's kind of loopy to say there wouldn't be enough minutes available. There are plenty for a player the caliber of Hill or Rondo

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

not sure what you're getting at...?

View attachment 35270

Simons averaged 21 minutes last season. CJ averaged 37; Hood averaged 30, when he played; Bazemore averaged 26 & Trent averaged 22

Simons sucks so there is a starting baseline of 20 minutes a game. CJ can give up 4 or 5. Dame could do with a couple fewer minutes a game. And there are probably 3-5 more minutes that could be 'squeezed' out of other players.

That gets a good backup PG up to the 25-30 minutes range. Now, I said good backup PG. I'm not talking about a Napier or a Frazier or any other 3rd string scrub that Portland could bring in on a minimum deal. I know many are talking about a guy like that but I think that's a mostly useless player

I am thinking along the lines of a George Hill or a Rondo. And yeah, that would have required the MLE deal and I know many are excited about Jones. I've been wanting a good backup PG for years. A veteran that knows how to run offense. But it ain't going to happen. However, it's kind of loopy to say there wouldn't be enough minutes available. There are plenty for a player the caliber of Hill or Rondo

Derrick Rose.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

not sure what you're getting at...?

View attachment 35270

Simons averaged 21 minutes last season. CJ averaged 37; Hood averaged 30, when he played; Bazemore averaged 26 & Trent averaged 22

Simons sucks so there is a starting baseline of 20 minutes a game. CJ can give up 4 or 5. Dame could do with a couple fewer minutes a game. And there are probably 3-5 more minutes that could be 'squeezed' out of other players.

That gets a good backup PG up to the 25-30 minutes range. Now, I said good backup PG. I'm not talking about a Napier or a Frazier or any other 3rd string scrub that Portland could bring in on a minimum deal. I know many are talking about a guy like that but I think that's a mostly useless player

I am thinking along the lines of a George Hill or a Rondo. And yeah, that would have required the MLE deal and I know many are excited about Jones. I've been wanting a good backup PG for years. A veteran that knows how to run offense. But it ain't going to happen. However, it's kind of loopy to say there wouldn't be enough minutes available. There are plenty for a player the caliber of Hill or Rondo

Simons minutes will go to Hood and Trent this year. They can play more two guard instead of small forward.

I'm glad the Blazers got the best role playing forward with starter upside they could with the MLE instead of a 3rd string PG with backup upside.

Just because you have a wet dream about a backup PG doesn't mean the team should prioritize it. They had much larger deficiencies with starting forwards.

Not to mention what PG is excited to take an offer to play behind Dame and CJ? Probably the worst opportunity any free agent PG could select in the NBA.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

As this is turning into a Simons-bashing thread, it's worth noting that his numbers in the playoffs were perhaps better than Trent's:

 

[Big Dog]

not sure what you're getting at...?

View attachment 35270

Simons averaged 21 minutes last season. CJ averaged 37; Hood averaged 30, when he played; Bazemore averaged 26 & Trent averaged 22

Simons sucks so there is a starting baseline of 20 minutes a game. CJ can give up 4 or 5. Dame could do with a couple fewer minutes a game. And there are probably 3-5 more minutes that could be 'squeezed' out of other players.

That gets a good backup PG up to the 25-30 minutes range. Now, I said good backup PG. I'm not talking about a Napier or a Frazier or any other 3rd string scrub that Portland could bring in on a minimum deal. I know many are talking about a guy like that but I think that's a mostly useless player

I am thinking along the lines of a George Hill or a Rondo. And yeah, that would have required the MLE deal and I know many are excited about Jones. I've been wanting a good backup PG for years. A veteran that knows how to run offense. But it ain't going to happen. However, it's kind of loopy to say there wouldn't be enough minutes available. There are plenty for a player the caliber of Hill or Rondo

Not sure why you missed it. We have had a pretty decent back up PG for the last few years.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I remember when our STARTING pg switched between guys like Telfair, Steve Blake, Jarret Jack, etc..... On a team with Lillard and CJ people want a tiny minute backup better than those prior starters? While there are many other holes of big minute positions on the roster... its nuts.

 

[Orion Bailey]

We have one. Wait is over. Ant!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Bumped after Gary Trent and Elleby last nigh showed how desperately we need a backup PG.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It's inevitable.

 

[TBpup]

We have players who play the backup PG position.
We don't have a backup PG. (unless CJ is playing in a game where Dame didn't suit up)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

We have players who play the backup PG position.

...ineptly.

 

[Natebishop3]

The second unit desperately needs someone that can distribute. The sad thing is that CJ could be really good at it, but we have so many guys that are looking for their own shot.

Melo
CJ
GTJ
Hood
Kanter

Who on that unit is going to initiate the offense? Who is going to drive and kick? That's a ton of talent but will there actually be some kind of offensive flow and structure? I hate when they bring the ball up, pass once and a shot goes up. Or even worse they don't even pass once.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The second unit desperately needs someone that can distribute. The sad thing is that CJ could be really good at it, but we have so many guys that are looking for their own shot.

Melo
CJ
GTJ
Hood
Kanter

Who on that unit is going to initiate the offense? Who is going to drive and kick? That's a ton of talent but will there actually be some kind of offensive flow and structure? I hate when they bring the ball up, pass once and a shot goes up. Or even worse they don't even pass once.

Maybe we see this second unit play more than 0 minutes before deciding CJ is a failure with it?

 

[Hoopguru]

I think SAC full strength is a damn good team.
They are very fast and their passing last night was impressive. They drive and kick much better than we do at this point. Their 1st round draft pick looks solid.