Wizards Trade Offer to Blazers:

[handiman]

According to Brian Wheeler on the post game show:

Brendan Haywood

FOR

Rudy Fernandez
Nicolas Batum
2nd Round Pick

These are the types of trades it appears we're getting offered and it's why I'm not upset that we haven't made a significant trade to date...

You guys are asking the wrong questions.... The question isn't how ridiculous the above offer is, rather if there's any reason to believe it's actually true. Why would Wheeler have the information about a rejected offer unless it's PR material to demonstrate why Pritchard hasn't made a move?

 

[Sex Panther]

I think a lot of people are simply forgetting business 101.

The offer always starts off high. The Wizards didn't expect the Trailblazers to go for it. They're just trying to get a feel for some teams and what they wants, how desperate they are, etc.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Ahh, good point.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think the Wizards are really after Juwan. They think he's still got it and they want to relive the 90's.

 

[oldguy]

This is a wake-up call to Blazer fans, and probably a fair reflection of how the rest of the league sees the Blazers' young players.

There is a strong possibility Batum is never more than a nice role-player. If healthy, Rudy is a nice scorer off the bench who might be a marginal starter. Until he proves the back injury isn't going to be a chronic problem, many teams will be leery of him. (and with good reason)

Assuming KP even wants to make a deal, his best assets may be the expiring deals for Blake and Outlaw.

That is the absolutely worst case scenario for Batum, with him reaching NONE of his potential. He was a 'nice role player' last season. He just turned 22. Why would you think he won't get better with more experience?

I don't think we've seen enough of what Rudy is capable of to know how good he might be. He's always been in Roy's shadow, and apparently has been hurt for a long time. On a different team, 'marginal starter' would be the low end of Rudy's potential. I'll give you that his back could trump of all his potential.

Go Blazers

 

[maxiep]

That, in my mind, was his most egregious mistake. How the hell can you pass on a chance @ Rubio for Randy frickin Foye?!

The same way you pass on a chance for Brandon Roy for Randy frickin Foye?

Edit: I see BNM beat me to the joke.

 

[BrianFromWA]

How dare you put out a clueless opinion like that, ridiculing a guy who's being paid to make decisions like that?!?! When you get your first NBA check for scouting, or your first interview about the selections you've made, then let me know.

 

[STOMP]

For a team that's in fire sale mode, that's a pretty laughable offer. Hey Ernie, your the one who is desperate, not us.

I'd say no to moving Rudy or Nic for BH... this fire sale is akin to an out of fluid Bic

STOMP

 

[Minstrel]

I think a lot of people are simply forgetting business 101.

The offer always starts off high. The Wizards didn't expect the Trailblazers to go for it. They're just trying to get a feel for some teams and what they wants, how desperate they are, etc.

Business 101 suggests you start with something semi-realistic, even if high, otherwise the other party realizes you're not actually serious about finding a deal that will work for both sides.

If a GM approaches Cleveland with an offer of two bench players (say, Sasha Vujacic and Adam Morrison) for LeBron James, is that just good business? Start low, see if you can get a steal...work up from there?

 

[Nikolokolus]

You would trade one or the other for Heywood? Wow. What can Heywood do that Pendergraph cannot, that is worth losing Rudy or Batum!?

You are crazy man. Rudy for Heywood. Unbelievable!

I try not to post anymore, but I had to say something. Some of you just have no clue.

What can he do that Pendergraph can't? How about contend with real centers in the post on defense for starters. I love Jeff's hustle, but there's not a chance in hell he can be your full time backup center and expect the team to do well in a playoff situation paired up against the Bynums, Gasols, and Howards of the league.

But, yeah trading a backup shooting guard when we're busting at the seams with wings and guards is "crazy talk"

Don't you have something better to do like harassing homeless people anyway?

 

[julius]

What can he do that Pendergraph can't? How about contend with real centers in the post on defense for starters. I love Jeff's hustle, but there's not a chance in hell he can be your full time backup center and expect the team to do well in a playoff situation paired up against the Bynums, Gasols, and Howards of the league.

But, yeah trading a backup shooting guard when we're busting at the seams with wings and guards is "crazy talk"

Don't you have something better to do like harassing homeless people anyway?

So sign him in the off-season and don't lose 2 players that A: have significantly higher ceilings than him and B: could garner much better players than him

 

[BrianFromWA]

Not to sidetrack it, but Ben Wallace is making the vet minimum on a baaaaaad Detroit team right now.

 

[e_blazer]

So sign him in the off-season and don't lose 2 players that A: have significantly higher ceilings than him and B: could garner much better players than him

That would be a good plan if the Blazers had enough cap space to do it. With Roy's and Aldridge's contracts kicking in after July 1, the Blazers will be over the cap even if they let Travis and Blake walk.

 

[julius]

That would be a good plan if the Blazers had enough cap space to do it. With Roy's and Aldridge's contracts kicking in after July 1, the Blazers will be over the cap even if they let Travis and Blake walk.

I doubt that in todays market, a 30 year old C will get much more than the MLE this summer.

 

[Nikolokolus]

So sign him in the off-season and don't lose 2 players that A: have significantly higher ceilings than him and B: could garner much better players than him

No cap space and no bird rights = no Haywood.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I doubt that in todays market, a 30 year old C will get much more than the MLE this summer.

Wrong. There are going to be tons of teams with cap room chasing too few free agents, if anything Haywood can probably expect a 3 year 8 million dollar deal.

 

[Sex Panther]

Business 101 suggests you start with something semi-realistic, even if high, otherwise the other party realizes you're not actually serious about finding a deal that will work for both sides.

If a GM approaches Cleveland with an offer of two bench players (say, Sasha Vujacic and Adam Morrison) for LeBron James, is that just good business? Start low, see if you can get a steal...work up from there?

But here's the thing, this offer wasn't out-of-this-world outrageous in the eyes of the Wiz GM. Nicolas Batum --at least in my eyes-- will never be an all star but rather a really good role player (sorry). And of course, Rudy. I'll be the first to admit my man-crush on the guy. Fun to watch, can score in bunches, decent playmaker, possible future 6th man of the year/starter.

Haywood is by no means an all star but he's an above average center who can get you a consistent double double and is a decent defensive presence. Factor that in with Portland's need for a center, and the deal isn't so bad.

 

[Nikolokolus]

But here's the thing, this offer wasn't out-of-this-world outrageous in the eyes of the Wiz GM. Nicolas Batum --at least in my eyes-- will never be an all star but rather a really good role player (sorry). And of course, Rudy. I'll be the first to admit my man-crush on the guy. Fun to watch, can score in bunches, decent playmaker, possible future 6th man of the year/starter.

Haywood is by no means an all star but he's an above average center who can get you a consistent double double and is a decent defensive presence. Factor that in with Portland's need for a center, and the deal isn't so bad.

My biggest issue is his contract situation. If he weren't a free agent this summer it'd be a lot easier to stomach, as it is there's probably a half-way decent chance he'd be a half season rental. So giving up two guys like Nic and Rudy for what would amount to cap space (that won't put us under the soft cap) is a bad deal.

 

[Minstrel]

But here's the thing, this offer wasn't out-of-this-world outrageous in the eyes of the Wiz GM. Nicolas Batum --at least in my eyes-- will never be an all star but rather a really good role player (sorry). And of course, Rudy. I'll be the first to admit my man-crush on the guy. Fun to watch, can score in bunches, decent playmaker, possible future 6th man of the year/starter.

Haywood is by no means an all star but he's an above average center who can get you a consistent double double and is a decent defensive presence. Factor that in with Portland's need for a center, and the deal isn't so bad.

I think the deal is pretty silly. Haywood is a classic journeyman-caliber center. He's exactly the kind of player that can be picked up for the MLE (and usually proves to be a mistake, as most MLE pick-ups end up). He will, in fact, be a free agent this off-season.

I don't think Fernandez is going to be an All-Star, and I think Batum will only be an All-Star if he hits his ceiling. Despite that, both are talented young players who are exactly the types a successful team needs around superstars/stars.

The deal isn't as outlandish as the hypothetical I posed, mine was meant to be an exaggeration. It's still a deal that I don't think any competent GM would ever consider or use as the starting point for a different, fair deal.

Considering that this season has effectively been "lost" (in relation to the start of the contention window), "need" is really not a factor. I can imagine a GM overpaying for need to keep serious contention hopes afloat. Turning a lost season into a slightly better lost season isn't going to be the time for a "need" trade.

 

[julius]

But here's the thing, this offer wasn't out-of-this-world outrageous in the eyes of the Wiz GM. Nicolas Batum --at least in my eyes-- will never be an all star but rather a really good role player (sorry). And of course, Rudy. I'll be the first to admit my man-crush on the guy. Fun to watch, can score in bunches, decent playmaker, possible future 6th man of the year/starter.

Haywood is by no means an all star but he's an above average center who can get you a consistent double double and is a decent defensive presence. Factor that in with Portland's need for a center, and the deal isn't so bad.

get you a consistent double double? you mean like how he's had 13 double doubles this year? Out of 37 games he's played in?

That's the same # of double doubles LaMarcus has had.

consistent double double my ass.

Let's put it this way, his nickname wasn't Brenda Haywood for nothing.

 

[Masbee]

You know that may be what they offered, but come on folks, we know these are negotiations, and both sides start at the extreme and work towards a middle ground. Then the Wizards go out and find out what they can get around the league, and we talk again, and that repeats several more times before any deal is consumated. The answer is always in the middle of the two extremes somewhere. We bid low. They ask high. Just like buying a fucking house.

Really?

I just sold a house a few months ago. Listed it higher than I originally wanted at the urging of my agent. They worked really, really hard to find the nearly exact market value of the house at that moment in time. Received 3 offers in two weeks all within 1% of the asking price - that is how perfectly priced the listing was.

There was NO low-ball, high-ball, outrageous negotiating with positions far apart. The shoppers (and their agents) KNEW the price was perfect. So, they didn't bother attempting some idiotic "low-ball" offer. Waste of time.

If you are so far out to lunch: ie: (Give us Rudy AND Batum for a guy who isn't under contract that you could easily lose this summer.) you can put the other side off so badly, that they lose interest in the negotiations.

Blazers obviously are interested in Haywood and obviously need him. But if the demand is silly, the Blazers could explore some avenues, and unearth a better player and snatch him up, or decide to go with a lower cost stopgap big.

 

[BlazerBenner]

Batum's not available at any price to anyone.

 

[BlazerBenner]

If you are so far out to lunch: ie: (Give us Rudy AND Batum for a guy who isn't under contract that you could easily lose this summer.) you can put the other side off so badly, that they lose interest in the negotiations.

That's typical of 85% of NBA General Managers. That's why they all suck big time. Pritchard's about the only one willing to put his balls on the line. None of the others have any to put out there. They're so scared to make a mistake and lose their job, that they do nothing and blame everything on the Coaches and "bad luck". Their only goal is to collect a paycheck and a piece of the pie that Stern negotiates with the Networks.

The NBA is really a sick piece of work sometime.

And, yes. It is fixed and always has been. If you don't believe that I've got some timeshares in Florida to sell you.

 

[oldmangrouch]

That is the absolutely worst case scenario for Batum, with him reaching NONE of his potential. He was a 'nice role player' last season. He just turned 22. Why would you think he won't get better with more experience?

I don't think we've seen enough of what Rudy is capable of to know how good he might be. He's always been in Roy's shadow, and apparently has been hurt for a long time. On a different team, 'marginal starter' would be the low end of Rudy's potential. I'll give you that his back could trump of all his potential.

Go Blazers

Just to be clear, I believe Batum has the chance to be a more valuable player than Rudy because of his defense - but a blue collar type of player, not an all-star.

 

[thenatural007]

Batum's not available at any price to anyone.

Agree, especially a bulked up Scottie-Pippen version.

 

[Sex Panther]

get you a consistent double double? you mean like how he's had 13 double doubles this year? Out of 37 games he's played in?

That's the same # of double doubles LaMarcus has had.

consistent double double my ass.

Let's put it this way, his nickname wasn't Brenda Haywood for nothing.

Oh Jesus guy,

he's had a bunch of 8 point, 12+ rebound games. Check his game logs. You're either A. being difficult B. a jackass C. plain stupid.

No one likes any of those. Don't nitpick at something that tiny.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

D. All of the above

 

[julius]

Oh Jesus guy,

he's had a bunch of 8 point, 12+ rebound games. You're either A. being difficult B. a jackass C. plain stupid.

No one likes any of those. Don't nitpick at something that tiny.

Well, since I went through the trouble of looking at his stats, and figuring out that doesn't consistently get double doubles (and hasn't for his career), I would think that eliminates A and B, and unless jackass means 'actually has stats to back up what he's saying', then I guess I'll go with D: other.

 

[Cake]

I don't buy it.

Batum was worth Gerald Wallace this offseason. Now he's worth HALF of Brenda Haywood? Not likely.

I suspect that Wheels threw this out there so fans would hear that we're receiving ridiculous the trade offers and be okay with the fact that we won't make a trade until the draft.

 

[anonymous gambler]

Really?

I just sold a house a few months ago. Listed it higher than I originally wanted at the urging of my agent. They worked really, really hard to find the nearly exact market value of the house at that moment in time. Received 3 offers in two weeks all within 1% of the asking price - that is how perfectly priced the listing was.

There was NO low-ball, high-ball, outrageous negotiating with positions far apart. The shoppers (and their agents) KNEW the price was perfect. So, they didn't bother attempting some idiotic "low-ball" offer. Waste of time.

If you are so far out to lunch: ie: (Give us Rudy AND Batum for a guy who isn't under contract that you could easily lose this summer.) you can put the other side off so badly, that they lose interest in the negotiations.

Blazers obviously are interested in Haywood and obviously need him. But if the demand is silly, the Blazers could explore some avenues, and unearth a better player and snatch him up, or decide to go with a lower cost stopgap big.

3 offers in two weeks at basically the listing price? sounds like you left money on the table- no offense.

That said, I agree that the Wizards' offer as stated in this thread is unreasonable.. I would counter by asking for Butler for the same price!