Would it be worth mortgaging our future to make a run?

[dviss1]

Would you not take that gamble on blake griffin?

Also, if Houston thinks they can convince Butler and Philly to sign and trade his way to Houston, why can't we?

Hell no. Not our young healthy studs for him. That's mortgaging our future for someone who could be injured all season.

I'm. Good.

 

[tlongII]

No. We have one. and 2 guys who would add up to another one.

Dame and CJ are both recognized stars in the league. Nurk soon will be.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

He was also far more proven in college. Simons is a completely unknown entity. I'm projecting his future with speculation like everyone else.

A year ago, he was just a guy who was picked 24th in the draft. What has he done to suddenly boost his value so much that people don't want to throw him in trades for all stars?

Game 82, probably.

I wasn't arguing that he shouldn't be included in deals--just answering the question you asked. Also, Kyle Lowry only played 10 games his rookie year, and he's now a 5x all-star.

 

[riverman]

I don't think we have to mortgage any future to make a run....I think we just plug in the roster spots with role players type upgrades and make a run.....what I don't want is to get slower on offense...young guys have young legs..our future is too bright to waste the development of our draft picks...we have a great bench foundation ...we just need to find another PF who can score and defend

 

[illmatic99]

Game 82, probably.

I wasn't arguing that he shouldn't be included in deals--just answering the question you asked. Also, Kyle Lowry only played 10 games his rookie year, and he's now a 5x all-star.

One game against a bunch of nobodies in what was effectively glorified summer league. I got excited about that too, but it needs to be put in perspective. He didn't play a single meaningful playoff minute after that performance.

Good find on Lowry. It also took him three teams and 7 yrs to get to that level. If we project Simons to follow the same path, Dame will be far removed from his prime.

Now's the time to strike.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Catch 22 question.

Simons/Collins/Little have not developed enough "potential" to land a third star in a trade.

And when they do have enough trade value, (we hope), we will not need a third star.

I believe quality depth will get this team further than a third star with weak depth.

On the other hand if the other team has an astute evaluator of talent and can see future potential (i.e Pop who traded for the draft rights of Kawhi)
and that team is losing their star player anyways, then I think Simons, Collins, and Little are a huge haul to receive back.

As for the Blazers getting that extra guy is huge if he meshes well skill wise with Dame, CJ, and Nurk. You can always get depth to replace what those three young players (Limons. Collins, Little) would have given you this upcoming year.

But I also agree with those who point out that Harkless and Aminu together are average at best as your two starting forwards. Which is why I always argued for a couple of years that upgrading that is needed before moving CJ. So just upgrading them would be huge even if it was not a star player.

 

[riverman]

Chauncey Billups was tossed around the league as trade fodder for years before he settled into becoming a bona fide allstar...

 

[CupWizier]

All star level players don't get DNP CDs for 60 games in their rookie years. Show me a single one. I love Simons, but the hype behind him is absolutely nuts. Olshey's plan is working.

Rashard Lewis. Drafted when was 19, only played 20 games his rookie year and averaged around 8 minutes a game. In a few years he was averaging double digits and made the all staar team. I guess it can be done.

 

[Scalma]

It was mainly Lowe pushing the idea of trading for another piece, Woj was just like “yeah I guess dude” lol. They did agree that the blazers are building up their collection of assets, but I didn’t get the sense that Woj thought the Blazers are actually going to make a big move. Woj’s quote about finding a center in the last year of his deal to hedge Nurkic was more noteworthy imo.

 

[hoopsjock]

Jermaine O'neal only played 45 games his rookie year, pretty much all garbage time.

Z-Bo only played 41 games his rookie year, almost all garbage time too.

Rashard Lewis only played 20 games his rookie year.

Those are three I thought of off the top of my head.

 

[illmatic99]

Jermaine O'neal only played 45 games his rookie year, pretty much all garbage time.

Z-Bo only played 41 games his rookie year, almost all garbage time too.

Rashard Lewis only played 20 games his rookie year.

Those are three I thought of off the top of my head.

Good finds

 

[SharpesTriumph]

How about the MVP, Gianni? He was shit as a rookie, PER of 10 and shot 41%

There's probably a 100 plus players that looked like shit as a rookie and became an all star.

It's more common than looking great as a rookie.

 

[Duckhook]

Total noob question here. What would prevent a team from signing a player to a small contract to fit under the salary cap, and then pay them a "consulting" fee on the side? Like if Jody Allen set up a basketball camp company and paid a player $10m a year to run the camp on the side? Or if Portland were to sign a player with a smaller salary, and they work a side deal with Nike to pay the player $10m that would not be tied to their contract. The obvious answer is ethics and I get that. But this type of deal must be out there somewhere right? Sponsor deals happen all the time whether they're tied loosely to a contract or not. Just wondered if anyone else thought along those lines.

Let the roasting commence.

 

[Cugel]

It would only make sense to make a big move if the player is a current/former all-star under the age of 30. Woj was just saying that the Blazers are in a good spot to make a deal using Zach, Anfernee, and Nas. Personally, I want to see those guys in black and red rather than a perpetually injured Kevin Love or Blake. Now I am a huge Blake fan and I would be ok with a trade for him but man the second he gets injured it's going to be the old "I told you so" routine from me.

 

[e_blazer]

All star level players don't get DNP CDs for 60 games in their rookie years. Show me a single one. I love Simons, but the hype behind him is absolutely nuts. Olshey's plan is working.

I think that's a bit disingenuous in the case of Simons given that he came straight out of high school to a team that was stacked at the guard spot to play for a coach noted for not giving rookies much playing time. I'd say that a more reasonable assessment might be made, you know, after he's actually played?

 

[illmatic99]

I think that's a bit disingenuous in the case of Simons given that he came straight out of high school to a team that was stacked at the guard spot to play for a coach noted for not giving rookies much playing time. I'd say that a more reasonable assessment might be made, you know, after he's actually played?

Me calling Simons a starter is just as much valid as you calling him an all star. I feel like my estimate is more reasonable tbh. How the hell is that disingenuous?

 

[e_blazer]

Total noob question here. What would prevent a team from signing a player to a small contract to fit under the salary cap, and then pay them a "consulting" fee on the side? Like if Jody Allen set up a basketball camp company and paid a player $10m a year to run the camp on the side? Or if Portland were to sign a player with a smaller salary, and they work a side deal with Nike to pay the player $10m that would not be tied to their contract. The obvious answer is ethics and I get that. But this type of deal must be out there somewhere right? Sponsor deals happen all the time whether they're tied loosely to a contract or not. Just wondered if anyone else thought along those lines.

Let the roasting commence.

The CBA contains prohibitions on circumvention. Here's what the CBA FAQ page has to say:

106. Can teams find loopholes in the CBA and do things the league never intended to allow? What is circumvention?
As any league executive will tell you, the CBA isn't a list of the things teams can't do; it's a list of the things teams can do. The league operates in a "disallow by default" mode -- actions are not allowed except where the CBA specifically permits them.

In other words, teams aren't allowed to put anything into a player's contract that wasn't negotiated between the league and players association and included in the CBA. For example, a team signing a known drug offender can't insist on a "one strike and you're out" policy or that the player attend mandatory drug counseling -- instead they must follow the negotiated drug program (see question number 109).

The CBA also has a general prohibition on circumvention which states that the rules exist to preserve the benefit derived by the teams and players, and that nobody shall do anything to defeat or circumvent the intent of the agreement. The league can use this prohibition to disallow a signing or trade that they feel circumvents the CBA, even though it is not specifically prohibited by the agreement.

Examples of conduct considered to be circumvention include:

• A team owner allowing a player to invest in a business or investment fund controlled by the owner or a friend of the owner.
• A team executive assisting a player in obtaining a product endorsement.
• Any "under the table" promises for a future contract (see question number 30).
• A team's arena renting retail space to a player on the team.
• A team selling a sponsorship to a business in which a player has an interest.
• A team hiring a player's relative or business partner as an employee.
• A team owner allowing a player the use of his private plane.
• A company affiliated with a team's owner making a home available to one of the team's players.

 

[e_blazer]

Me calling Simons a starter is just as much valid as you calling him an all star. I feel like my estimate is more reasonable tbh. How the hell is that disingenuous?

You try to find a post where I called him an All-Star. I think you're going to be searching a LOOOONG time.

All I'm saying is that he's got some serious athletic ability, that I saw him put on a hell of a display in the last game of the year, and that guys who should know (Dame and Olshey) have said he's the real deal. I'd like to see him play this year before deciding to trade him away for an aging All-Star with a ton of mileage on him.

 

[illmatic99]

aging All-Star with a ton of mileage on him.

As I've pointed out on multiple occasions, Love/Griffin/etc have all played nearly the same number of minutes and are almost the same age as Dame/CJ. It's far more reasonable to maximize Dame's prime with guys close in age rather than wait for a guy like Simons who is 7+ yrs younger.

 

[illmatic99]

You try to find a post where I called him an All-Star. I think you're going to be searching a LOOOONG time.

What are you basing this ceiling assessment on? You've only seen one game and a few minutes of garbage time for Simons and you've never seen Little play a minute of NBA level ball. Both of those guys look to have the athleticism and raw tools to be all star level players

So do Swanigan, Labissiere then I suppose.

 

[e_blazer]

So do Swanigan, Labissiere then I suppose.

Feel free to trade guys like that for any All-Stars you want.

 

[wizenheimer]

A Kawhi Leonard caliber player is on the market right now. His name is Kawhi Leonard.

some teams manage to have cap-space when Kawhi or Durant are available. Other teams manage to have cap-space when Hedo Turkoglu or Chandler Parsons are available

don't be the other team

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Total noob question here. What would prevent a team from signing a player to a small contract to fit under the salary cap, and then pay them a "consulting" fee on the side? Like if Jody Allen set up a basketball camp company and paid a player $10m a year to run the camp on the side? Or if Portland were to sign a player with a smaller salary, and they work a side deal with Nike to pay the player $10m that would not be tied to their contract. The obvious answer is ethics and I get that. But this type of deal must be out there somewhere right? Sponsor deals happen all the time whether they're tied loosely to a contract or not. Just wondered if anyone else thought along those lines.

Let the roasting commence.

It's against the rules the owners and players union agreed to.

 

[hoopsjock]

some teams manage to have cap-space when Kawhi or Durant are available. Other teams manage to have cap-space when Hedo Turkoglu or Chandler Parsons are available

don't be the other team

Or you could frame it a different way in that we aren't letting Dame become an unrestricted free agent and therefore don't have to worry about him leaving.

 

[blazerfan11]

This question needs to be a little bit clearer.
So I will make it clearer.
Is it worth it to have a realistic chance ( meaning you are a favorite or co- favorite by outsiders) for a period of let’s say three years to win a championship and then stink for five years after that? (Like the Ray Allen Celtics).
Hell yes!

If the person wanted to ask about specific trade scenarios involving the Trail Blazers then that’s how it should’ve been asked. It seems that a lot of people seem to think that was the intention.

 

[Duckhook]

The CBA contains prohibitions on circumvention. Here's what the CBA FAQ page has to say:

106. Can teams find loopholes in the CBA and do things the league never intended to allow? What is circumvention?
As any league executive will tell you, the CBA isn't a list of the things teams can't do; it's a list of the things teams can do. The league operates in a "disallow by default" mode -- actions are not allowed except where the CBA specifically permits them.

In other words, teams aren't allowed to put anything into a player's contract that wasn't negotiated between the league and players association and included in the CBA. For example, a team signing a known drug offender can't insist on a "one strike and you're out" policy or that the player attend mandatory drug counseling -- instead they must follow the negotiated drug program (see question number 109).

The CBA also has a general prohibition on circumvention which states that the rules exist to preserve the benefit derived by the teams and players, and that nobody shall do anything to defeat or circumvent the intent of the agreement. The league can use this prohibition to disallow a signing or trade that they feel circumvents the CBA, even though it is not specifically prohibited by the agreement.

Examples of conduct considered to be circumvention include:

• A team owner allowing a player to invest in a business or investment fund controlled by the owner or a friend of the owner.
• A team executive assisting a player in obtaining a product endorsement.
• Any "under the table" promises for a future contract (see question number 30).
• A team's arena renting retail space to a player on the team.
• A team selling a sponsorship to a business in which a player has an interest.
• A team hiring a player's relative or business partner as an employee.
• A team owner allowing a player the use of his private plane.
• A company affiliated with a team's owner making a home available to one of the team's players.

Thanks for this. I figured there was something out there... I just never saw/looked for it.

 

[wizenheimer]

Or you could frame it a different way in that we aren't letting Dame become an unrestricted free agent and therefore don't have to worry about him leaving.

you could, but that's not how it works.

OKC didn't "let" Durant become a free agent. They did everything they could to re-sign him. The Spurs did everything they could to keep Kawhi; same with Indiana and PG. Orlando tried really hard to keep Shaq. Denver tired to keep Melo. Cleveland tried everything they could to keep Lebron (twice). Toronto had their hearts broken by Bosh

Ultimately, the players have that power, not the team. San Antonio got incredibly lucky with Duncan; 5 championships. Portland hasn't had that kind of luck but they sure appear to have plenty with Dame

 

[1eyedjack]

I’m normally ok with trading some youth for proven talent but I guess I’ve bought into the hype I think Simons and Collins both are starter material in the very near future. I’ll even go out on limb and say Simons will cause CJ to be traceable in two years similar to how CJ took Mathews spot.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I get that people want to be excited about the younglings...but let's be real. The odds of Simons, Collins, or Little becoming all-stars is not that great. You do not kill a trade that makes the team significantly better by refusing to deal them. Fans are waaaaay to quick to annoint players as "untouchable."

 

[tlongII]

I get that people want to be excited about the younglings...but let's be real. The odds of Simons, Collins, or Little becoming all-stars is not that great. You do not kill a trade that makes the team significantly better by refusing to deal them. Fans are waaaaay to quick to annoint players as "untouchable."

What specific trades are you referring to?