Would someone explain to me why Oden was so ineffective tonight?

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gatorpops said:
Something that bothers me, we tend compare the stats of another player to Oden when he only has the first-half of his rookie season to compare to other players full season stats. Doesn't that seem a little odd???? Did the other player not improve during his first season at all?:confused:
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Sure, that's a pretty fair point. Howard's full-season PER reflects his final numbers, which includes all improvements he made that led to (likely) better results as the season wore on. So that only highlights what a good season Oden is having (outside of the fouls) that he's posting a strong PER already, despite not yet having played what will probably be a stronger second half.
 
Minstrel said:
Sure, that's a pretty fair point. Howard's full-season PER reflects his final numbers, which includes all improvements he made that led to (likely) better results as the season wore on. So that only highlights what a good season Oden is having (outside of the fouls) that he's posting a strong PER already, despite not yet having played what will probably be a stronger second half.
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My belief exactly.
 
Minstrel said:
How so? I don't think PER is saying anything controversial there. Observationally, Howard looked raw and inconsistent as a rookie. He played more minutes than Greg (on a terrible team) but outside of that, I don't think Howard looked more impressive than Oden as a rookie, despite the fact that Howard hadn't just missed a year of basketball due to an injury.
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it always seems a little strange to me when per is used to compare two players from different seasons because it isn't really a comparison of how the two players produced, it's a comparison of how the two players produced compared to the league average player which is made to be 15 every season. so per tells us that oden so far has a been a little better compared to the league average than dwight was his rookie year compared to the league average that year, but doesn't necessarily say anything about who was the better player of the two.
 
rocketeer said:
it always seems a little strange to me when per is used to compare two players from different seasons because it isn't really a comparison of how the two players produced, it's a comparison of how the two players produced compared to the league average player which is made to be 15 every season. so per tells us that oden so far has a been a little better compared to the league average than dwight was his rookie year compared to the league average that year, but doesn't necessarily say anything about who was the better player of the two.
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That matters if the quality of "league average" changes. Which could be an issue between eras (was the average player in the 1960s as good as the average player today?), but is unlikely to be an issue over the course of about 5 years. League average five years ago is unlikely to be appreciably different than league average today.

Also, I don't consider Oden's PER to be significantly different than Howard's. They're about the same, the difference is too slight to be meaningful. Oden has basically been an above average starter when he's been on the floor, just as Howard was.
 
I love some the absolutely retarded posts made in this thread. I was guilty of bashing the team during the NOH game and they made me eat my words. Oden is inconsistent, but jesus some people are going to look really fucking dumb by the end of this year.
 
toutlaw25 said:
I love some the absolutely retarded posts made in this thread. I was guilty of bashing the team during the NOH game and they made me eat my words. Oden is inconsistent, but jesus some people are going to look really fucking dumb by the end of this year.
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Who's going to look dumb? Oden played terribly last night. Some of us aren't afraid to say that. If he plays better at the end of the season, we'll celebrate that.
 
KingSpeed said:
Who's going to look dumb? Oden played terribly last night. Some of us aren't afraid to say that. If he plays better at the end of the season, we'll celebrate that.
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there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying a guy played bad when he plays bad.

it's all the crazy conclusions people are trying to draw from it that is ridiculous and going to make people look dumb.
 
Exactly. In the first post of this thread, I merely asked why he played so badly.
 
KingSpeed said:
Exactly. In the first post of this thread, I merely asked why he played so badly.
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You also answered your question in that very same post. Your intent when making this thread was rhetorical (admit it) and throughout it, all you've done is whine and bitch about how poorly Oden is doing despite people trying to answer your proposed question. The only difference between this thread and the other Oden Sucks one is you're pretending to be objective.

Oden is like god and if you doubt him for a second (particularly if you're a Blazer fan) you should be forced to eat crow when THE DAY comes.
 
Miksaid said:
You also answered your question in that very same post. Your intent when making this thread was rhetorical (admit it) and throughout it, all you've done is whine and bitch about how poorly Oden is doing despite people trying to answer your proposed question. The only difference between this thread and the other Oden Sucks one is you're pretending to be objective.

Oden is like god and if you doubt him for a second (particularly if you're a Blazer fan) you should be forced to eat crow when THE DAY comes.
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I didn't answer the question at all. Only one poster did. He said it was coaching. I'm willing to buy that. I think we need a guy who is working closely with Greg to make adjustments from game to game. I don't feel like he has that.

I mean what are you disagreeing with? Did you think he WAS effective last night? He wasn't. When he IS effective, I'll give him credit and I'll be very happy. Not eating crow at all. I've never said that Oden will never amount to anything.

Also, no one in any thread said "Oden sucks."
 
Miksaid said:
Oden is like god and if you doubt him for a second (particularly if you're a Blazer fan) you should be forced to eat crow when THE DAY comes.
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Also, there better be more than one DAY.
 
Threads like this make it as clear as day as far as who actually knows something about the NBA, rookies, analyzing players, and basketball as a whole vs. who just pretends like they know. Not that it's hard to tell from other threads usually ;)
 
KingSpeed said:
Also, no one in any thread said "Oden sucks."
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No, but close!

KingSpeed said:
11/9/08
… Is Bynum a disappointment? Going into tonight's game, he was only averaging 8ppg, 9rpg. I think we can expect more from Oden when he returns. After all, Oden produced 5 rebs and 1 blk in about a quarter of play. That's 20 rpg and 4 bpg if he plays the whole game. I think Oden will win the battle this season and Bynum has to be considered a disappointment. He averaged 13 & 10 last season and many said that wasn't impressive enough to consider him one of the great centers in the league. At 8 & 9, he's regressed.

11/10/08
By the way, in his last preseason game, Oden scored 12 pts and grabbed down 13 rebounds. In 29 minutes. And that was just preseason. He was saving his A game for the regular season but then he got hurt. Just wait til he comes back.

1/7/09
I feel like I've given up on him {Oden}. It just occurred to me now to check his unimpressive stat line, he hardly did anything. We go to him a couple times at the top of the game and that's it. I know he was in foul trouble but 4 pts and 1 rebound is still underwhelming for a guy his size.

1/7/09
I hear ya Brian. I'm just wondering when the excuses stop. Next year, I guess.

1/9/09
Before the surgery, Greg underwhelmed us all in summer league, but I know, I know, that's just summer league. But even then, when you go with the surgery excuse, it sucks that we got a guy who NEEDED surgery. We were hoping for more, no? It doesn't have to be Greg's fault for it to be true.

1/29/09
He'll make the All Star game next season, taking Shaq's spot as the reserve center.

1/31/09
…I mean, was Bowie a bust in his rookie year? Not at all. And he was mostly considered a bust because he wasn't as good as Jordan which isn't fair. Statwise, he had a great rookie year. Better than Oden is having so far. I'm loving Oden's recent play though.

2/4/09
Oden was supposed to be that rock in the middle. But he hasn't been. He's practically given up on defense because he doesn't want to get into foul trouble. He misses a lot of rebounds. He's just lost out there a lot of the time.

Today
Putting the stats besides and watching the guy, there is clearly a problem. Yes, he does have some good games, but what the hell was he doing out there tonight? Nothing.
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I'm not happy with what I'm seeing from Greg. And I don't see how you could be either. One good point is that he's not getting stripped as much as he was when the season began. I'll give him that. But otherwise, he's gotten worse, especially defensively.
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The foul trouble has rendered him useless on D. He's always trying to get out of the way of the opposition while they just go ahead and score on us.
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Seems like you run a little hot and cold on Greg.
 
Christ, this thread is almost making me miss a MIXUM creation.
 
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