Would you trade Aldridge for Harden + Ibaka + Perkins?

[RR7]

In this league right now, it's either PF or PG. There are very few good SGs.

As a very generic way of looking, there are currently 14 PGs with a PER over 18. 21 PFs. 16 Cs. There are 5 SGs. and 5 SFs. It's funny how people continually throw out the wings are a dime a dozen mantra, when it's not at all the case. Seems there are more above average Cs than there are wings.
PER is obviously not the be all end all. But a quick way to look at one stat that tries to cover a lot to show the different positions.

 

[RR7]

what good player did they extend before he hit free agency, who seemingly gave up less to stay?

 

[RoyToy]

They will never win shit without Post offense.

So, yeah, Holy Crap.

So that means they trade Westbrook for a "decent" center?

That really makes me lol

Not too mention they just gave him a MAX contract. I think that means they like him and value him for more than just a decent center.

 

[C_note]

Actually a pretty fair trade. I voted no.

If I were OKC, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Durant, Westbrook, Aldridge? Yeah...

Perkins is overpaid trash and is a deal-breaker for Portland for this. If they added in a couple 1st rounders or something else, would be good for both teams possibly.

Depth is a luxury OKC has, but I would no doubt sacrifice it to bring Aldridge to OKC.

Going with my alteration, Portland does it to go into complete rebuild mode and get younger.

1st trade proposal I've ever seen on this forum that was actually good.

 

[Masbee]

To RoyToy:

Are you saying they will k keep all four?

Are you saying they will win as constructed?

Don't go out on a limb or anything. Just keep flaming with no contribution.

And have a little imagination. Trades aren't one to one. If you give up a Westbrook for an inferior player the other team can send a second good player or picks or eat a bad contract our whatever to equalize the trade.

 

[PapaG]

I'd actually prefer it without Perkins. But I don't see why Ibaka is going elsewhere, and where I said any such thing. I like Harden more, for sure, and he is the centerpiece. But Ibaka is a very good role player, and I mentioned how his defense/rebounding could cover for someone like Lopez if we were able to get him.

Perkins has a big contract. Harden will get a big contract, and so will Ibaka. Do you want to pay them 3x combined what LMA makes?

 

[PapaG]

To RoyToy:

Are you saying they will k keep all four?

Are you saying they will win as constructed?

Don't go out on a limb or anything. Just keep flaming with no contribution.

And have a little imagination. Trades aren't one to one. If you give up a Westbrook for an inferior player the other team can send a second good player or picks or eat a bad contract our whatever to equalize the trade.

So personal over a hypothetical scenario. Relax

 

[PapaG]

Actually a pretty fair trade. I voted no.

If I were OKC, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Durant, Westbrook, Aldridge? Yeah...

Perkins is overpaid trash and is a deal-breaker for Portland for this. If they added in a couple 1st rounders or something else, would be good for both teams possibly.

Depth is a luxury OKC has, but I would no doubt sacrifice it to bring Aldridge to OKC.

Going with my alteration, Portland does it to go into complete rebuild mode and get younger.

1st trade proposal I've ever seen on this forum that was actually good.

My thought is that you've given up your best player for the 3rd, 4th, and 6th-best players on another team, you've added long-term payroll, and you've lost a legitimate primary scorer.

Presti would do that deal in a minute.

 

[MARIS61]

Never trade down in talent, which is what this is.

 

[shamelessblazer]

I don't know if they'd do it yet but I'd love to pul off Matthews + our NJJ pick (#5?) for Harden. It'd work out financially, they get a cheaper deal (Matthews is cheaper than his cap hold even because of that big bonus), and another cheap rookie deal. We get a proven player to put next to Aldridge. I'd love to see Deron/Harden/Batum/Aldridge/Freeland. I think that's a championship contender probably.

 

[PapaG]

I don't know if they'd do it yet but I'd love to pul off Matthews + our NJJ pick (#5?) for Harden. It'd work out financially, they get a cheaper deal (Matthews is cheaper than his cap hold even because of that big bonus), and another cheap rookie deal. We get a proven player to put next to Aldridge. I'd love to see Deron/Harden/Batum/Aldridge/Freeland. I think that's a championship contender probably.

That actually makes sense. Trading LMA for three lesser players, two of whom are due a big contract, and another on a big contract, doesn't make sense.

 

[C_note]

My thought is that you've given up your best player for the 3rd, 4th, and 6th-best players on another team, you've added long-term payroll, and you've lost a legitimate primary scorer.

Presti would do that deal in a minute.

Yeah I don't get how people are arguing OKC wouldn't do this. Hell, if you drop Perkins and add the draft picks or some other young player, I still think it's a No for Portland. But very enticing and something you would think about, for sure...

 

[Denny Crane]

Why? OKC has a 38-12 record, #2 in the league. They've gradually gained strength in the league to be #2 or even #1. I'd call them favorites to win it this year.

Harden is a great 3rd option in a big 3. People are undervaluing how good it is to have your third guy with a 21.4 PER, or just how good it is to have even one guy with a 20+ PER. If they pay Harden and Westbrook MAX contracts, they'll be at $69M, which is under the LT threshold by about 2M with 12 players under contract. Ibaka is under contract for this year and the next two at under $3M, and they'll be have Perkins' $9.1M contract expiring the year they need to extend Ibaka.

Their worst case scenario is they pay the LT in Perkins' last year.

 

[Rhal]

Why? OKC has a 38-12 record, #2 in the league. They've gradually gained strength in the league to be #2 or even #1. I'd call them favorites to win it this year.

Harden is a great 3rd option in a big 3. People are undervaluing how good it is to have your third guy with a 21.4 PER, or just how good it is to have even one guy with a 20+ PER. If they pay Harden and Westbrook MAX contracts, they'll be at $69M, which is under the LT threshold by about 2M with 12 players under contract. Ibaka is under contract for this year and the next two at under $3M, and they'll be have Perkins' $9.1M contract expiring the year they need to extend Ibaka.

Their worst case scenario is they pay the LT in Perkins' last year.

With the harsh lux tax rules paying three guys,max or near max deals is going to cost the owner very dearly. It gets worse each year too. The real pain comes when durant enters his last year harden his third year and westbrook his fourth. That will be nearly 60m those three and with them most likely in the tax for the last three years could cost them upwards of 50 million extra if they have used there mid level every year.
Ill do the math and postt the actual est lux tax number when I get home from work.
Im assuming they trade westbrook for another great guard next summer on a cheaper contract (lowery, rondo come to mind) and recieve a few extra pieces as well.

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I don't know if they'd do it yet but I'd love to pul off Matthews + our NJJ pick (#5?) for Harden. It'd work out financially, they get a cheaper deal (Matthews is cheaper than his cap hold even because of that big bonus), and another cheap rookie deal. We get a proven player to put next to Aldridge. I'd love to see Deron/Harden/Batum/Aldridge/Freeland. I think that's a championship contender probably.

That would be nice, but I'm not sure OKC does that. If there's a particular player in the draft that they really want, they might. But I think they have depth already so they wouldn't really want to turn quality into quantity.

If they win the title this year, I'm guessing they stand pat. If the Heat/Spurs/Bulls dust their butts they might do a trade. But they can always bake the cake another year.

 

[Denny Crane]

I was looking at the salary data at sham sports. Three years out, they have $40m committed to 11 players, including $7.6m to Harden. Add $16m for Westbrook (now 12 players) and $8.4M to max Harden, and they are still $6m under the LT.

Ibaka won't be a max guy, but maybe $10m. So they go $4m into the tax for one season and Perkins' $9m comes off the books.

It's never that easy, but that's the numbers I see.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I was looking at the salary data at sham sports. Three years out, they have $40m committed to 11 players, including $7.6m to Harden. Add $16m for Westbrook (now 12 players) and $8.4M to max Harden, and they are still $6m under the LT.

Ibaka won't be a max guy, but maybe $10m. So they go $4m into the tax for one season and Perkins' $9m comes off the books.

It's never that easy, but that's the numbers I see.

kinda what im thinking too, as long as they can round out their roster, theres room for those 4 guys, its not something they are going to have to really worry about for 5 years or so...and if they are top of the league still, i doubt they are going to have a problem going over the tax a million or 2

 

[RR7]

I was looking at the salary data at sham sports. Three years out, they have $40m committed to 11 players, including $7.6m to Harden. Add $16m for Westbrook (now 12 players) and $8.4M to max Harden, and they are still $6m under the LT.

Ibaka won't be a max guy, but maybe $10m. So they go $4m into the tax for one season and Perkins' $9m comes off the books.

It's never that easy, but that's the numbers I see.

3 years out? You ,mean 3 years from now they have 40 million to 11 players?

 

[C_note]

Still no one has a compelling argument for why OKC wouldn't make this trade...

 

[Denny Crane]

Still no one has a compelling argument for why OKC wouldn't make this trade...

If I were OKC, I wouldn't trade Harden for LMA straight up.

So the argument that they should give up Ibaka on top of Harden is, frankly absurd. No offense intended. It's a pipe dream kind of scenario where OKC gets far less in return than what they're giving up. LMA's good/great, but the value added by losing two of their top 4 players and both of those players are near LMA's level already, doesn't make any sense.

 

[MARIS61]

Would OKC trade Durant for Batum + Wes + Joel?

Same difference.

 

[C_note]

If I were OKC, I wouldn't trade Harden for LMA straight up.

So the argument that they should give up Ibaka on top of Harden is, frankly absurd. No offense intended. It's a pipe dream kind of scenario where OKC gets far less in return than what they're giving up. LMA's good/great, but the value added by losing two of their top 4 players and both of those players are near LMA's level already, doesn't make any sense.

You are looking at the PER like it just disappears off the stat sheets...OKC would be absolutely insane to reject Harden for LMA straight up.

Take away 3 players and add Aldridge. That leaves two roster spots to fill. SOMEONE is going to make up for the loss in PER for the most part...Durant, RW, LMA all each a little bit, plus whoever fills those roster spots/other players who benefit from the increase in minutes...

And I can't believe you would say you'd rather have a 23 year old bench player (not denying he has talent) over an all-star, top 5 PF in the league NO DOUBT in LMA.

Who do you think Harden is, the next Michael Jordan?

Would OKC trade Durant for Batum + Wes + Joel?

Same difference.

No, it's not.

 

[Denny Crane]

I think in Aldridge you gain 2 PPG and 3.5 RPG (per 36 minutes), but lose a .498 shooting wing player who also shoots .388 from 3pt and 3APG. And with 3 really awesome scorers, Ibaka does for them what Aldridge won't (rebound, block shots) and also scores plenty.

 

[C_note]

I think in Aldridge you gain 2 PPG and 3.5 RPG (per 36 minutes), but lose a .498 shooting wing player who also shoots .388 from 3pt and 3APG. And with 3 really awesome scorers, Ibaka does for them what Aldridge won't (rebound, block shots) and also scores plenty.

It's like you don't even watch the NBA, just comment on stats.

And in your own post, you claim Aldridge adds 3.5 RPG per 36, then later state he can't rebound. Sounds like a case of using stats to try to prove a point that doesn't exist.

 

[RR7]

I think in Aldridge you gain 2 PPG and 3.5 RPG (per 36 minutes), but lose a .498 shooting wing player who also shoots .388 from 3pt and 3APG. And with 3 really awesome scorers, Ibaka does for them what Aldridge won't (rebound, block shots) and also scores plenty.

Seems like a very simple way of looking at it, just by PPG stats.

Aldridge gives them something they do nothave at all right now,a nd that is someone that can score inside. Harden is duplicated, and then triplicated(?) as a scoring wing. Having 2 scoring wings, and a very good post scorer is a better combo than 3 wing scorers and no post scoring at all.
It'd be different if Durant or Westbrook were decent options on the block, but they really aren't.

 

[C_note]

I'm saying guys like Collison, Perkins (in my alteration) easily fill the void left by Ibaka and Harden in PER that you claim would happen. Cole Aldrich even maybe, one of their lotto picks. Durant and RW and LMA also pick up the slack with ease.

 

[Denny Crane]

Why don't you propose trading LMA for LeBron, Wade, and Bosh?

It gives them an inside scorer, after all.

(I mean, I think it's that absurd)

 

[RR7]

Why don't you propose trading LMA for LeBron, Wade, and Bosh?

It gives them an inside scorer, after all.

(I mean, I think it's that absurd)

uh, bosh is an inside scorer, and wade is good on the block, lebron is getting better. Interesting you have harden on james and Wade's level. THAT'S fucking absurd.

I like how you argue that they wouldn't, or you wouldn't, trade Harden straight up for ALdridge, and were previously arguing about how Boozer and Asik was a great rebuilding package for us. Great evaluation.

 

[C_note]

Why don't you propose trading LMA for LeBron, Wade, and Bosh?

It gives them an inside scorer, after all.

(I mean, I think it's that absurd)

LOL you getting mad because I disagree with you? Just trying to have a conversation, you don't have to pull a MARIS. I'd expect that from him but not you.

 

[Denny Crane]

uh, bosh is an inside scorer, and wade is good on the block, lebron is getting better. Interesting you have harden on james and Wade's level. THAT'S fucking absurd.

I like how you argue that they wouldn't, or you wouldn't, trade Harden straight up for ALdridge, and were previously arguing about how Boozer and Asik was a great rebuilding package for us. Great evaluation.

I wouldn't trade Harden straight up, and I strongly believe OKC wouldn't do it.

I never suggested just Boozer and Asik was a great rebuilding package for you.