Would you trade Aldridge for Harden + Ibaka + Perkins?

[Denny Crane]

LOL you getting mad because I disagree with you? Just trying to have a conversation, you don't have to pull a MARIS. I'd expect that from him but not you.

I'm not mad, I'm trying to express, logically, how absurd your thinking is.

Not only do you want Harden, you want Ibaka.

 

[RR7]

oh yeah, sorry, you offered us CJ Watson as well. lol
I'm fairly certain straight up, OKC would swap Harden for Aldridge. Of course, no way for either of us to prove it.

 

[Denny Crane]

oh yeah, sorry, you offered us CJ Watson as well. lol
I'm fairly certain straight up, OKC would swap Harden for Aldridge. Of course, no way for either of us to prove it.

And Charlotte's protected 1st and ours. And Deng if you added Matthews.

That's an all-star for an all-star, plus a starting C, plus a starting PG, plus a starting PF (with a 20+ PER), and a likely lotto pick.

 

[C_note]

I'm not mad, I'm trying to express, logically, how absurd your thinking is.

Not only do you want Harden, you want Ibaka.

Fine, we agree to disagree. Although I'm fairly certain the entire rest of the forum will disagree with you also on this one.

 

[Denny Crane]

Fine, we agree to disagree. Although I'm fairly certain the entire rest of the forum will disagree with you also on this one.

Fans do tend to value their team's players more than other GMs do. I don't have a dog in this hunt, so take it for what it's worth. I really don't see OKC with a big 3 comparable to Miami's plus a 22year old Ibaka putting up a near double-double every night and leading the league in blocked shots feeling a desperate need for LMA at the price you suggest. They're almost certain to have the #1 seed in the West, they're healthy and talented and deep. They are my favorite to win it all, and they look like they could repeat. And threepeat.

 

[PapaG]

LOL you getting mad because I disagree with you? Just trying to have a conversation, you don't have to pull a MARIS. I'd expect that from him but not you.

Don't get him too rattled, or he'll call you a fool! :MARIS61:

 

[PapaG]

Fans do tend to value their team's players more than other GMs do. I don't have a dog in this hunt, so take it for what it's worth. I really don't see OKC with a big 3 comparable to Miami's plus a 22year old Ibaka putting up a near double-double every night and leading the league in blocked shots feeling a desperate need for LMA at the price you suggest. They're almost certain to have the #1 seed in the West, they're healthy and talented and deep. They are my favorite to win it all, and they look like they could repeat. And threepeat.

Oh come on now. Serge Ibaka's "double-double" every night is actually 9 points and 7 rebounds, with an 18.5 PER.

OKC's biggest problem, and I believe it will be their downfall in the playoffs, is that they have no inside post scoring options. As games slow down in the playoffs, points are harder to come by, and if you aren't hitting outside shots, your offense stagnates, or your PG starts to dominate the ball.

That's what Westbrook did last year against Dallas, and frankly, I don't see how they've improved their ability to get points in the paint, and to get the opposing bigs in foul trouble.

Also, not trading James Harden for LMA straight up, even in fantasy land, is just so ridiculously hilarious that I have to assume you're just stirring the pot. Yes, let's not trade for a legitimate post scorer, in the prime of his career, and on a very nice contract, because we need to keep our 6th man, who will likely be seeking starter-level money, and maybe even an expanded role in an offense, after his rookie deal expires.

 

[Mamba]

You guys can't seriously think OKC would come close to thinking about this trade package? Why would they f with their chemistry in the first place? Second, you think that is a fair offer? On most teams, Harden is a budding all-star. Ibaka and Perkins give them defense on the inside as well. What does Aldridge give them? Scoring? Yeah, they've got Durant and Westbrook for that

 

[PapaG]

You guys can't seriously think OKC would come close to thinking about this trade package? Why would they f with their chemistry in the first place? Second, you think that is a fair offer? On most teams, Harden is a budding all-star. Ibaka and Perkins give them defense on the inside as well. What does Aldridge give them? Scoring? Yeah, they've got Durant and Westbrook for that

You have to take into account the salary implications that OKC is going to be dealing with once Ibaka and Harden hit the market.

 

[Mamba]

You're right, I did not take that into consideration.

I could see them giving up Harden + others for Aldridge, but not all 3...in this case, I don't know why you guys would do it.

 

[Denny Crane]

You're right, I did not take that into consideration.

I could see them giving up Harden + others for Aldridge, but not all 3...in this case, I don't know why you guys would do it.

Except they are well under the LT after maxing both Westbrook and Harden, and under for the next 3 seasons.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

And Charlotte's protected 1st and ours. And Deng if you added Matthews.

That's an all-star for an all-star, plus a starting C, plus a starting PG, plus a starting PF (with a 20+ PER), and a likely lotto pick.

So just to recap (because I think this is much more interesting than the Blazers/Thunder proposal)--you're suggesting Aldridge/Matthews for Boozer/Deng/Asik/Watson/CHI 2012 #1/CHA 2015 #1?

 

[Denny Crane]

So just to recap (because I think this is much more interesting than the Blazers/Thunder proposal)--you're suggesting Aldridge/Matthews for Boozer/Deng/Asik/Watson/CHI 2012 #1/CHA 2015 #1?

That's what I was thinking.

The Bulls actually could use a 2nd goto guy. They'd like LMA for his defense as much as his offense; he'd be a great fit next to Noah who needs to be near the basket. Matthews gives the Bulls a starting SG. In the short run, it's the Bulls' best chance to win a championship - otherwise I'm not expecting they do (Deng needs surgery and his play has suffered).

Or the Bulls keep Deng and you keep Matthews. I tried both in the trade machine and they work.

 

[RoyToy]

So just to recap (because I think this is much more interesting than the Blazers/Thunder proposal)--you're suggesting Aldridge/Matthews for Boozer/Deng/Asik/Watson/CHI 2012 #1/CHA 2015 #1?

Hell no

 

[RR7]

Except they are well under the LT after maxing both Westbrook and Harden, and under for the next 3 seasons.

If they max out Harden, and start Ibaka off at let's say 10 his first year, that first year, they are close to 70 million in salaries from Harden, Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Perkins, Sefolosha and Collison. Well under? where were you getting your previous 40 million for 11 players figure?

 

[Denny Crane]

If they max out Harden, and start Ibaka off at let's say 10 his first year, that first year, they are close to 70 million in salaries from Harden, Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Perkins, Sefolosha and Collison. Well under? where were you getting your previous 40 million for 11 players figure?

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/thunder.jsp

2012/2013 $50.0M in salaries, add $8.3M to max Westbrook = $58.3M. 13 players under contract.
2013/2014 $40.3M in salaries, add $18M for Westbrook, another $8.5M to max Harden. That's $67.1M. 12 players under contract.

LT is at ~$70M THIS season.

 

[magnifier661]

I really don't want any piece of shit player from that lame ass wannabe contender OKC.

 

[RR7]

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/thunder.jsp

2012/2013 $50.0M in salaries, add $8.3M to max Westbrook = $58.3M. 13 players under contract.
2013/2014 $40.3M in salaries, add $18M for Westbrook, another $8.5M to max Harden. That's $67.1M. 12 players under contract.

LT is at ~$70M THIS season.

that site can't even update their salaries. Not sure why you'd bother using it. That also has Ibaka taking his QO. In 2013-14, they have
Durant - 17.8
Westbrook -13.9
Harden - 12.9
Perkins - 8.5
Ibaka - 10(from your mention earlier)
Sefolosha - 3.9
Collison - 2.6
That's roughly 69.5 for those 7 guys. 6 more guys getting a vet min deal still pushes them into LT. Or they have team options on Hayward, Aldrich and Jackson for 6.5, so that has you at 76 for 10 guys. 3 minimum guys to fill the roster gets you at 79. another 9 in LT so 88. Not WELL UNDER the luxury tax.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah, Sham's numbers look screwy.

 

[Denny Crane]

I would still play this and next year and deal with the salaries when the time comes.

 

[magnifier661]

I would still play this and next year and deal with the salaries when the time comes.

What would happen if they blew it in the first round? Would you try it again?

 

[Denny Crane]

What would happen if they blew it in the first round? Would you try it again?

I think if Westbrook implodes, I'd not be offering MAX, maybe consider a trade even.

 

[magnifier661]

I think if Westbrook implodes, I'd not be offering MAX, maybe consider a trade even.

Westbrook is already max isn't he?

 

[Denny Crane]

Westbrook is already max isn't he?

Nope. He's due an extension this summer.

Look at the spreadsheet I posted in post #79

 

[RR7]

Nope. He's due an extension this summer.

Look at the spreadsheet I posted in post #79

westbrook already signed his extension.

 

[Masbee]

If I were OKC, I wouldn't trade Harden for LMA straight up.

So the argument that they should give up Ibaka on top of Harden is, frankly absurd. No offense intended. It's a pipe dream kind of scenario where OKC gets far less in return than what they're giving up. LMA's good/great, but the value added by losing two of their top 4 players and both of those players are near LMA's level already, doesn't make any sense.

When has Harden EVER been a #1 option?

He is unproven.

When has Harden EVER has the half-court offense run through him in the post?

Yeah, good luck with that.

As for Ibaka - get real. He doesn't have plays run for him offensively.

You are ignoring the value of roles. And right now, Harden and Ibaka are role players and LaMarcus is a franchise player.

 

[Masbee]

You guys can't seriously think OKC would come close to thinking about this trade package? Why would they f with their chemistry in the first place? Second, you think that is a fair offer? On most teams, Harden is a budding all-star. Ibaka and Perkins give them defense on the inside as well. What does Aldridge give them? Scoring? Yeah, they've got Durant and Westbrook for that

Did you read the posts in this thead?

I don't think you did as it was aleady explained:

THE THUNDER HAVE NO FUCKING CHOICE BUT TO "FUCK WITH THEIR CHEMISTRY".

They don't have to do it now. They don't have to do it this summer, but the longer they wait the more the choices won't be theirs, it will be choices forced on them by agents and other teams. If they get ahead of the curve on this they can manage it.

 

[Masbee]

Nope. He's due an extension this summer.

Look at the spreadsheet I posted in post #79

you need a new shreadsheet. Dude got a MAX extension already.

 

[Masbee]

Except they are well under the LT after maxing both Westbrook and Harden, and under for the next 3 seasons.

I am not going to bother with the math, but I know that this is not true.

Well, maybe if they had Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka on deals and dumped every other player who refused to work for minimum salary deals. Then, yeah they could stay under the lux tax. But, then again, that team would get booted in the playoffs every year.

 

[MickZagger]

When has Harden EVER been a #1 option?

He is unproven.

When has Harden EVER has the half-court offense run through him in the post?

Yeah, good luck with that.

As for Ibaka - get real. He doesn't have plays run for him offensively.

You are ignoring the value of roles. And right now, Harden and Ibaka are role players and LaMarcus is a franchise player.

Franchise player on a good team, or a bad team? Big difference.

I think you're selling Harden short. He's got star written all over him, he's just stuck behind Durant and Westbrook for the limelight. He reminds me of a young Manu with a better jumper and he's only 22.