Wow, McCain Finally Gets A Hit

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Денг Гордон said:
I agree we shouldn't steal money from the rich and give it directly to the poor. But I do believe, as a society, we have a moral obligation to provide for people when times are hard. I think we have a moral obligation to help people with their health problems.

My dad worked his way through college, and worked for 35 years. In the past year, he has lost his house, lost his job, and is living in a homeless shelter all because the health insurance company refused to pay for his treatment, even though it was covered in his health insurance plan.

You are not going to convince me that that's fair. Obama is providing the right plans to help fundamentally strengthen America. You can work hard for all your life and end up not having anything to show for all your hard work.
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Well, healthcare reform is important. Its a stupid system right now and needs reform. Not universal coverage. Look, your dad had coverage, but it sucked. That is what may happen if we nationalize or universalize healthcare. Ever try getting anything from the government?

You take the exisiting system, then add EVERYONE in the country to it or have government control it and assume its going to get better?

its a large beast, but I don't think providing coverage is the job of the government. They should regulate companies from bad business practices and foster an envirnoment in which a fair system is enacted.
 
Xericx said:
The funny thing is, with a cascading tax system, I don't feel bad about poor schools in bad neighborhoods. Rich people = pay higher percentage, get better schools. Poor people = get handouts and lower tax rates, get shit schools.

Kind of infinite justice.
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Since a lot of school funding mechanisms are tied up in property taxes, it's got a whole lot less to do with earned income taxes and cascading tax rates than you'd think. More affluent neighborhoods have higher property values and hence more dollars to put into their school systems and usually more dollars allocated for actual educational purposes instead of siphoning off money to deal with remedial education, security, and having to deal with recruitment of new teachers to replace those who burnout.

The real issue in schools as far as I can see is that parental involvement in poorer neighborhoods is usually pretty abysmal, while parental involvement in richer schools is usually pretty good (PTA, volunteering, holding their children accountable, teaching their kids to read before arriving at kindergarten, etc.) It's not a money issue, it's a personal responsibility/involvement issue ... at the very least my father and Aunt who are both school teachers see it that way (one a teacher at a private school in Burbank CA, the other a teach in a very poor school in in Springfield OR).
 
Nikolokolus said:
Since a lot of school funding mechanisms are tied up in property taxes, it's got a whole lot less to do with earned income taxes and cascading tax rates than you'd think. More affluent neighborhoods have higher property values and hence more dollars to put into their school systems and usually more dollars allocated for actual educational purposes instead of siphoning off money to deal with remedial education, security, and having to deal with recruitment of new teachers to replace those who burnout.

The real issue in schools as far as I can see is that parental involvement in poorer neighborhoods is usually pretty abysmal, while parental involvement in richer schools is usually pretty good (PTA, volunteering, holding their children accountable, teaching their kids to read before arriving at kindergarten, etc.) It's not a money issue, it's a personal responsibility/involvement issue ... at the very least my father and Aunt who are both school teachers seems to see it that way (one a teacher at a private school in Burbank CA, the other a teach of a very poor school in in Springfield OR).
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Yeah, but I'm sure there is some casual correlation between tax rates and property tax rates, in general.

And as a former high school teacher, I agree with your second point. Parental involvement has more to do with one's success than almost anything else IMO. That and one's attitude. Postitive attitude towards education = success in education.
 
Xericx said:
Yeah, but I'm sure there is some casual correlation between tax rates and property tax rates, in general.

And as a former high school teacher, I agree with your second point. Parental involvement has more to do with one's success than almost anything else IMO. That and one's attitude. Postitive attitude towards education = success in education.
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And parents don't want to get involved if the schools are garbage.
 
Denny Crane said:
And parents don't want to get involved if the schools are garbage.
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some will, some won't. sometimes the administration is too ass backwards. there's also the increasing threat of safety in bad school districts. gangs, drugs, race wars, etc. Its a whole fucked up system...which is why people who want to really succeed should get vouchers and choose where they want to. The losers can go to trade schools to learn how to fix a car or unclog a toilet, both profitable careers.*

*not saying plumbers and car mechanics are losers...they just don't really need a whole lot of history, math and what not....no need to waste a bunch of time with that shit.
 
Denny Crane said:
And parents don't want to get involved if the schools are garbage.
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i'm not sure that i can agree with that.

if they care about their kid's education, they get involved regardless of the state of the school.

edit - and to me the most important parts of parent involvement are simply making the kid go to school, making sure they do their homework, knowing when projects and things are due and making sure they are done, making it so if the kid is getting in trouble at school they are in trouble at home as well, and so on. none of which have much at all to do with anything the parent would physically do at the school(like pta and volunteering and thing which are nice, but i don't feel are as important).
 
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If you oppose school vouchers, I suggest you take a trip into the ghettos of the big cities like Washington, DC and Baltimore and look at the kids who are being short-changed and disadvantaged because of all the bullshit bureaucracy. Time after time states and cities with high tax rates give money into these city schools with no improvements. Regardless if you want to blame the teachers unions that have the system by the balls, or the cities that don't know how to spend it properly, it's a disservice to the taxpayers, the parents, and the students.

Until somebody comes forth with a comprehensive plan to revamp education, so that African-Americans, Hispanics, and other minorities in these inner cities can receive the same quality of education as everyone else, school vouchers must be an option.
 
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rocketeer said:
i'm not sure that i can agree with that.

if they care about their kid's education, they get involved regardless of the state of the school.
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They get involved to the point they realize how messed up the system is, that they can't get the bad teachers fired, and they realize the teachers don't care if the kids get an education at all.
 
Black Republican said:
Barack is a pure liar, makin' me questionin' his ass now.
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His lies would all come out in the open for people to see if the mainstream media weren't riding his nuts.

Obama will be a joke as the president, a guy with zero experience, a shady past, and a socialist. Damn this country is set to have 4 years of suffering, plus it'll be a low point in the 200+ history of the US.

AMERICA WAKE UP!!!
 
CelticKing said:
His lies would all come out in the open for people to see if the mainstream media weren't riding his nuts.

Obama will be a joke as the president, a guy with zero experience, a shady past, and a socialist. Damn this country is set to have 4 years of suffering, plus it'll be a low point in the 200+ history of the US.

AMERICA WAKE UP!!!
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Don't worry, there will be a certain period of "awe" and "smugness". This will be short lived. Truthfully, it will be great to unleash the full power of the internet on a Democrat. Remember, this democratic congress was going to "get things done" as well. yeah. good job too.
 
It's the economy stupid. Which means this race is for all intents and purposes over.

McCain is an unfortunate victim. The ironic part is he did his part to try to prevent this meltdown, and people don't trust him with the economy. While Obama was trying to learn his way around the Capitol, McCain was working towards reforming Fannie and Freddie.
 
Real said:
It's the economy stupid. Which means this race is for all intents and purposes over.

McCain is an unfortunate victim. The ironic part is he did his part to try to prevent this meltdown, and people don't trust him with the economy. While Obama was trying to learn his way around the Capitol, McCain was working towards reforming Fannie and Freddie.
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What do you think it is? Do you think people are more agreeable to Obama and his tendency to have the government babysit the populace?
 
rocketeer said:
really?

anyone watch cnn and see what the final numbers were for all their "experts" or whatever? seemed like it the bit i watched(probably the first half of the debate) they had it scored pretty evenly.
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Voters aren't "experts" so their opinion is not that important to the results of this election. The polls are a better way to measure how the candidates did in the debate.
 
Xericx said:
What do you think it is? Do you think people are more agreeable to Obama and his tendency to have the government babysit the populace?
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I think it's because Bush is a Republican, McCain is a Republican (a different kind, but he still has the label).

Obama is a Democrat, he's a fresh face, he's got new ideas, and the people like him. Regardless of who is really to blame for this crisis, they blame Bush for everything else, it happened under his watch, he's going to take a hit, the party is going to take a further hit, and people become more receptive to change.
 
¹²³ said:
Voters aren't "experts" so their opinion is not that important to the results of this election. The polls are a better way to measure how the candidates did in the debate.
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the polls don't really mean much as they are pretty much always biased or have an agenda behind them.

same with the "experts", i'm just wondering how those ended up.
 
CelticKing said:
But seriously though I really don't understand what some of you guys here are seeing in Obama? He's not that special as you guys make him out to be, yes he's a socialist, he's he'll kill our freedoms when he takes office, but other than that he's just a big talker, lying left and right, blinding people eyes.
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Sorry you live in a bubble. I hope it's nicely furnished.

If you're not a racist, and not a millionaire, you must be incredibly uninformed, gullible, and naive.

There is simply no other reason a 23 year old American who espouses his preference to be free would vote for McCain.
 
MARIS61 said:
Sorry you live in a bubble. I hope it's nicely furnished.

If you're not a racist, and not a millionaire, you must be incredibly uninformed, gullible, and naive.

There is simply no other reason a 23 year old American who espouses his preference to be free would vote for McCain.
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Gotta love it.

You're racist if you don't for Obama.

:crazy:
 
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