Game Thread Yankees vs. Mets 4/25/15 4:05PM

[Yankeefan5545]

I think Nova will be fine but in the meantime we'll I guess have to put up with the big boy struggling every 5th day. I may even be happy to see Crapuano return. Meanwhile the World Champions with the best rotation in baseball and big boy Max are getting their asses kicked again.

 

[Yankeefan5545]

A batting average is not the best performance indicator but seeing those posted by the Mets Players makes CCs crappy start even more deplorable, this ass is the highest paid with the least performance. He should be ashamed that Pineade, Eovaldi, and to a point Warren are kicking his ass.

 

[blgridesagain]

Sooner or later the bottom line will be......just win.
Forget about his pitch location, his velocity, his focus....
can he win a game? That's the only bottom line any
Yankee fan cares about.

So theoretically, if he or any other pitcher pitches consistently to a good ERA/WHIP/BAA and for some reason on the days he pitches, his team averages 2 or 3 runs a game and the pitcher LOSES more than he wins......his losing record is HIS fault?

Not talking about CC's poor game today, but the job of a SP is to pitch well enough to give his team a chance to win......NO, I'm not talking about a performance like CC gave today.

CC did manage to pitch 8 innings vs Detroit, gave up 2 runs and took the loss.
Your move. lol

 

[Rick2583]

Terrible outing by CC, disgusting.

Gives up Duda's first HR vs a LH this season, gives up Campbell's first HR of the season and Pawlecki's first career HR. pee-yoo.....stinks.
Too many lazy hanging breaking balls up in the zone AND he was AHEAD ON THE COUNT when he did it.

Never mind how he feels and his velocity....the man is missing his spots and hanging too many lazy breaking balls. I don't think you have to be a young ace pitcher with a 95 heater to improve on the location.

I said earlier, I'm giving him April and May before thinking about getting the shovel out of the shed. He's made four starts, I think you can say so far, two have been bad and two have been good. Last time I checked, he was still the only SP (A.L.) with a complete game.

Yanks will make the eventual adjustment and he could probably, maybe moved to the the number 4 or 5 spot depending on how Warren and Eovaldi are doing.

Let it play out.....Warren and Eovaldi are probably going to have a say in this matter.
Lol.

Don't jump of the ledge yet, let's take tomorrow's game and 2/3 from the Mutts.

East does it....as of NOW, we're right in the middle of things in the last week of April.

Long season.....looong season.

Have you been watching the same games that the rest of us have? I think you're the ONLY one that can say that, ONE (1) has been good & THREE (3) have been bad. He's given up at least 4 runs in 3 of his 4 starts & had the Yankees playing catch up in 3 of his 4 starts. Please be serious.

 

[yankeesince59]

CC did manage to pitch 8 innings vs Detroit, gave up 2 runs and took the loss.

...and?

...what about the majority of his starts over the last 2 years?...but you decide to take one anomalous start vs Detroit and see it as a positive sign?

 

[blgridesagain]

Have you been watching the same games that the rest of us have? I think you're the ONLY one that can say that, ONE (1) has been good & THREE (3) have been bad. He's given up at least 4 runs in 3 of his 4 starts & had the Yankees playing catch up in 3 of his 4 starts. Please be serious.

Okay Rick.....his first start went 5.2 IP with 4 ER....not good. Yanks scored THREE runs and lost.
His 2nd start at Baltimore he pitched 7 innings gave up 4 ER, Yanks didn't score until the 6th inning and HE lost 4-3.
His 3rd start at Detroit he pitched 8 innings gave up 2 runs,
HE lost 2-1.
Today was a terrible game...oh, by the way the Yanks scored two runs.

What the hell are you talking about? "Falling behind".... Since when is it the end of the world if your team falls behind by a 2 or 3 runs early in the game.?
Smarten up.....a lineup is obligated to score (avg) at least 4-5 runs a game.

Obviously CC sucked today...but you have to stop acting like a hysterical little girl.
CC is NOT expected to be a top of the rotation guy and it remains early and undetermined yet if he will/can be an effective #3....maybe a # 4 if need be.

CC sucked today,..obviously.....
.....Yanks have been scoring runs this year...not to make excuses for CC but they haven't scored more than 3 runs in any game he's started, so stop overreacting and show your age, not your shoe size.

 

[yankeesince59]

"Falling behind".... Since when is it the end of the world if your team falls behind by a 2 or 3 runs early in the game.?

...because a team's odds of winning a game drop exponentially once they fall behind...does this really need explaining?

 

[Rick2583]

...because a team's odds of winning a game drop exponentially once they fall behind...does this really need explaining?

Apparently it does. Thanks for beating me to it. Wow!

 

[blgridesagain]

...because a team's odds of winning a game drop exponentially once they fall behind...does this really need explaining?

What are the odds of a team winning when they score at least 4-5 runs a game?
Just curious, do they exponentially increase?

And how does THIS affect a team's chances of winning (from post 36):
"but they haven't scored more than 3 runs in any game he's started,"

 

[Rick2583]

Okay Rick.....his first start went 5.2 IP with 4 ER....not good. Yanks scored THREE runs and lost.
His 2nd start at Baltimore he pitched 7 innings gave up 4 ER, Yanks didn't score until the 6th inning and HE lost 4-3.
His 3rd start at Detroit he pitched 8 innings gave up 2 runs,
HE lost 2-1.
Today was a terrible game...oh, by the way the Yanks scored two runs.

What the hell are you talking about? "Falling behind".... Since when is it the end of the world if your team falls behind by a 2 or 3 runs early in the game.?
Smarten up.....a lineup is obligated to score (avg) at least 4-5 runs a game.

Obviously CC sucked today...but you have to stop acting like a hysterical little girl.
CC is NOT expected to be a top of the rotation guy and it remains early and undetermined yet if he will/can be an effective #3....maybe a # 4 if need be.

CC sucked today,..obviously.....
.....Yanks have been scoring runs this year...not to make excuses for CC but they haven't scored more than 3 runs in any game he's started, so stop overreacting and show your age, not your shoe size.

Like I said Einstein ONE good start. Or are you thinking giving up 4 runs in 7 innings (I'll let you figure out that ERA) is considered a good start.

And I guess judging by your humorous response that its also okay for a team to HAVE TO come back from 3-0, 4-0 & 7-1 deficits.

You're doing it again Bob, Removing all doubt. And to think, for a few days there you were doing so well.

 

[Rick2583]

What are the odds of a team winning when they score at least 4-5 runs a game?
Just curious, do they exponentially increase?

And how does THIS affect a team's chances of winning (from post 36):
"but they haven't scored more than 3 runs in any game he's started,"

I don't generally make it a habit of answering a question with a question BUT.............

What are the odds of a team winning that scores 4-5 runs when they have to come back after being down by 3-4 runs?

 

[yankeesince59]

What are the odds of a team winning when they score at least 4-5 runs a game?
Just curious, do they exponentially increase?

And how does THIS affect a team's chances of winning (from post 36):
"but they haven't scored more than 3 runs in any game he's started,"

...the amount of runs the Yanx score has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with CC's ability to pitch...and he's pitched to an ERA of over 5.00 over the last 2 years. We're not talking about run support, we're discussing CC level of overall suckage...but again you predictably pick ONE anomalous game vs Detroit to make him into something he's not and a reason to be encouraged about him going forward. He sucks, period.

...try as hard as you like to otherwise sugar coat it, but sorry, you cannot polish a turd.

 

[Messiah717]

Seriously, I get the fact that you need attention therefore you're going to take the case of trying to somehow defend Sabathia. The facts are quite simple. He's 0-4 with an ERA of 5.96 and in 25.2 innings has given up 31 hits and 17ER. What the hell would run support have to do with horrid pitching like this unless you're deeming it reasonable that the Yankees would have to score six or more runs every damn game the guy pitches. He's giving up tons of contact and getting hit all over the park. 31 hits in 25.2 innings. Let that sink in before you try to use some other circular logic. The Mets who are a good make contact team not so shockingly battered him around the park. The guy is trash and on top of everything can't even get his fat ass over to cover first on routine plays.

 

[yankeesince59]

I don't generally make it a habit of answering a question with a question BUT.............

What are the odds of a team winning that scores 4-5 runs when they have to come back after being down by 3-4 runs?

...not only that, rick, but once you spot a team 3-4 runs you then have to assume that you can hold them scoreless for the rest of the game. This puts more pressure on the pitcher and subsequent relievers. It also changes how your pitchers then pitch to batters, how your hitters then approach things when at bat, how the defense plays, and how the manager manages, among other things.

...anyone who cannot grasp the difference in being behind early vs being ahead early has no business being in any Baseball discussion to begin with.

 

[Messiah717]

...not only that, rick, but once you spot a team 3-4 runs you then have to assume that you can hold them scoreless for the rest of the game. This puts more pressure on the pitcher and subsequent relievers. It also changes how your pitchers then pitch to batters, how your hitters then approach things when at bat, how the defense plays, and how the manager manages, among other things.

...anyone who cannot grasp the difference in being behind early vs being ahead early has no business being in any Baseball discussion to begin with.

Just like the difference Harvey would feel pitching with a 5-1 lead as opposed to it being 1-1 or even a 2-1 lead. At 5-1 he can do things differently and has more margin for error in doing so.

 

[Rick2583]

...not only that, rick, but once you spot a team 3-4 runs you then have to assume that you can hold them scoreless for the rest of the game. This puts more pressure on the pitcher and subsequent relievers. It also changes how your pitchers then pitch to batters, how your hitters then approach things when at bat, how the defense plays, and how the manager manages, among other things.

...anyone who cannot grasp the difference in being behind early vs being ahead early has no business being in any Baseball discussion to begin with.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well actually I could have but it would have come out with the same meaning so you did good.

 

[totus44]

Well CC sucked. I hated to say "I told you so", but at least now I understand how Ron feels everyday.

 

[Rick2583]

Well CC sucked. I hated to say "I told you so", but at least now I understand how Ron feels everyday.

OUCH!

 

[blgridesagain]

Like I said Einstein ONE good start. Or are you thinking giving up 4 runs in 7 innings (I'll let you figure out that ERA) is considered a good start.

And I guess judging by your humorous response that its also okay for a team to HAVE TO come back from 3-0, 4-0 & 7-1 deficits.

You're doing it again Bob, Removing all doubt. And to think, for a few days there you were doing so well.

Don't judge me Nick.

 

[blgridesagain]

Don't judge me Nick.

And CC, as bad as he pitched yesterday, has pitched well enough to have at least one or two WINS.
Girardi would hope he can get 7 innings and 4 runs in most games CC starts..

 

[blgridesagain]

How's your man Brandon McCarthy doing?
You remember don't you? Most of the board yourself included were clamoring for Cashman to sign him.....and guess what? He is 3-0.......with .5.87 ERA lmaoooooo.

Oh, did I mention he left last night's game with an elbow issue.
But he was 3-0 !

Read:

SAN DIEGO -- Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Brandon McCarthy left Saturday night's 11-8 victory over the San Diego Padres with right elbow tightness.

Justin Uptonpummeled over the center-field fence for a three-run home run in the sixth inning. McCarthy shook his arm as he walked off the field accompanied by the trainer and manager Don Mattingly.

McCarthy, whom the Dodgers signed to a four-year, $48 million deal in December, has been beset by shoulder injuries in his career, though he has never missed time with an elbow injury.

In 23 innings this season, McCarthy has allowed nine home runs, three of them to Upton. He is 3-0 with a 5.87 ERA.



You get very little correct.
Work on it, will ya?
And score one for Cashman.

 

[Rick2583]

Don't judge me Nick.

And CC, as bad as he pitched yesterday, has pitched well enough to have at least one or two WINS.
Girardi would hope he can get 7 innings and 4 runs in most games CC starts..

Again do the math, what would CCs ERA be if his season ended with only 7 innings allowing 4 runs? Then tell me that would be an acceptable line. Unless you're related to the guy stop defending how badly he's been pitching.

 

[blgridesagain]

...the amount of runs the Yanx score has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with CC's ability to pitch...and he's pitched to an ERA of over 5.00 over the last 2 years. We're not talking about run support, we're discussing CC level of overall suckage...but again you predictably pick ONE anomalous game vs Detroit to make him into something he's not and a reason to be encouraged about him going forward. He sucks, period.

...try as hard as you like to otherwise sugar coat it, but sorry, you cannot polish a turd.

I'm going to take a chance here but sadly I think I won't get an intellectually honest answer for whatever reason. First a comment, then a question.
Maybe you can forget WHO is making the comment and question so you're judgement and opinion isn't tainted or prejudiced and just address the actual WORDS.
Here goes:

I've said in the off season and ST that I believe CC has good enough "stuff" with a 90-91MPH fasball, good curve and changeup to make the transition from an ace type pitcher to an effective (good) #3 or 4 SP but he'll need to have more consistently good control/location...I also said I'm (imo) going to give him enough slack through the first two months before I kinda right him off as being washed up.
Many others have said and believe he is already "washed up" and they could be right - that's fine, more power to them!

As for his last full season (2013) being bad, he WAS already showing signs of losing his fastball and was still pitching as if he can overpower hitters with his fastball.

Now my question:
Generally speaking, if a SP has two games out of four, where he pitches 7 innings and allows 4 ER and another game with 8 IP and 2 ER, is that good enough, or should that be considered good enough to have at least one "win"?



Just a little perspective to consider:
I know CC isn't going to average 7 IP with 4 ER in every start.....but if he OR ANY OTHER #3-4 PITCHER can do that on a fairly consistent basis, would he have a respectable W-L record?..
.....AND he would also help the team by preserving wear and tear on the bullpen...

I'll let others worry about what his or ANY OTHER pitcher's ERA would be under those conditions. lol


And I welcome the whole board to read this WHOLE post and provide their opinions.
Sort of clear the air on this CC "discussion".

 

[Rick2583]

I'm going to take a chance here but sadly I think I won't get an intellectually honest answer for whatever reason. First a comment, then a question.
Maybe you can forget WHO is making the comment and question so you're judgement and opinion isn't tainted or prejudiced and just address the actual WORDS.
Here goes:

I've said in the off season and ST that I believe CC has good enough "stuff" with a 90-91MPH fasball, good curve and changeup to make the transition from an ace type pitcher to an effective (good) #3 or 4 SP but he'll need to have more consistently good control/location...I also said I'm (imo) going to give him enough slack through the first two months before I kinda right him off as being washed up.
Many others have said and believe he is already "washed up" and they could be right - that's fine, more power to them!

As for his last full season (2013) being bad, he WAS already showing signs of losing his fastball and was still pitching as if he can overpower hitters with his fastball.

Now my question:
Generally speaking, if a SP has two games out of four, where he pitches 7 innings and allows 4 ER and another game with 8 IP and 2 ER, is that good enough, or should that be considered good enough to have at least one "win"?



Just a little perspective to consider:
I know CC isn't going to average 7 IP with 4 ER in every start.....but I would say if he OR ANY OTHER #3-4 PITCHER can do that on a fairly consistent basis, he would have a respectable W-L record?..
.....AND he would also help the team by preserving wear and tear on the bullpen...

I'll let others worry about what his or ANY OTHER pitcher's ERA would be under those conditions. lol


And I welcome the whole board to read this WHOLE post and provide their opinions.
Sort of clear the air on this CC "discussion".

HOLY SHIT! Why you still think giving up 4 earned runs in 7 innings is acceptable can only be attributed to a brain crap. If he continued this line throughout the season his ERA would be well over 5. for crap sakes stop excepting this as a good start & except the FACT! that he's SUCKED in 3 of his 4 starts. Please let this dumb argument go.

As far as clearing the air, look I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my ass. Your WRONG about this plain & simple. Why is it that EVERYONE else on this board sees it but you? Enough already.

 

[Messiah717]

When he's 4-12 lets continue to have this same stupid conversation. Clear the air on what? The guy is friggin terrible.

 

[blgridesagain]

HOLY SHIT! Why you still think giving up 4 earned runs in 7 innings is acceptable can only be attributed to a brain crap. If he continued this line throughout the season his ERA would be well over 5. for crap sakes stop excepting this as a good start & except the FACT! that he's SUCKED in 3 of his 4 starts. Please let this dumb argument go.

As far as clearing the air, look I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my ass. Your WRONG about this plain & simple. Why is it that EVERYONE else on this board sees it but you? Enough already.

I'll stand by what I said in post 53:

Generally speaking, if a SP has two games out of four, where he pitches 7 innings and allows 4 ER and another game with 8 IP and 2 ER, is that good enough, or should that be considered good enough to have at least one "win"?


Just a little perspective to consider:
I know CC isn't going to average 7 IP with 4 ER in every start.....but I would say if he OR ANY OTHER #3-4 PITCHER can do that on a fairly consistent basis, would he have a respectable W-L record?..?
.....AND he would also help the team by preserving wear and tear on the bullpen...


That's all, I'm done.

 

[Rick2583]

I'll stand by what I said in post 53:

Generally speaking, if a SP has two games out of four, where he pitches 7 innings and allows 4 ER and another game with 8 IP and 2 ER, is that good enough, or should that be considered good enough to have at least one "win"?


Just a little perspective to consider:
I know CC isn't going to average 7 IP with 4 ER in every start.....but I would say if he OR ANY OTHER #3-4 PITCHER can do that on a fairly consistent basis, would he have a respectable W-L record?..?
.....AND he would also help the team by preserving wear and tear on the bullpen...


That's all, I'm done.

MERRY F'KING CHRISTMAS!

 

[Messiah717]

I'll stand by what I said in post 53:

Generally speaking, if a SP has two games out of four, where he pitches 7 innings and allows 4 ER and another game with 8 IP and 2 ER, is that good enough, or should that be considered good enough to have at least one "win"?


Just a little perspective to consider:
I know CC isn't going to average 7 IP with 4 ER in every start.....but I would say if he OR ANY OTHER #3-4 PITCHER can do that on a fairly consistent basis, would he have a respectable W-L record?..?
.....AND he would also help the team by preserving wear and tear on the bullpen...


That's all, I'm done.

Obviously not since he's now sitting at 0-4 on the season. But please keep throwing things around that mean absolutely nothing. Results are what matter.

 

[blgridesagain]

When he's 4-12 lets continue to have this same stupid conversation. Clear the air on what? The guy is friggin terrible.

Post 53 again:

Generally speaking, if a SP has two games out of four, where he pitches 7 innings and allows 4 ER and another game with 8 IP and 2 ER, is that good enough, or should that be considered good enough to have at least one "win"?

I say, so far, in his first four starts (trying to make the adjustment as more of a finesse pitcher) - half of them have certainly kept his team in the game and given them a very fair chance to win both games: 15 IP, 6 ER.

AND - he is a #3 SP, pitching for a team which is scoring more runs than most teams....to say the least.

And before anyone tries and taint the Yanks' good run scoring pace by saying it was done mainly because of "blowouts", let me remind them that the Yanks have scored FIVE runs or more in ten of their 18 games and scored FOUR runs in 2 other games.

Coincidentally, in the other 6 games when the Yanks have scored THREE or less runs,
four of those times came when CC was pitching.

I'm NOT here trying to say CC is having a good season.

I'll just stand by my post # 53 .....the WHOLE post.

 

[Rick2583]

Post 53 again:

Generally speaking, if a SP has two games out of four, where he pitches 7 innings and allows 4 ER and another game with 8 IP and 2 ER, is that good enough, or should that be considered good enough to have at least one "win"?

I say, so far, in his first four starts (trying to make the adjustment as more of a finesse pitcher) - half of them have certainly kept his team in the game and given them a very fair chance to win both games: 15 IP, 6 ER.

AND - he is a #3 SP, pitching for a team which is scoring more runs than most teams....to say the least.

And before anyone tries and taint the Yanks' good run scoring pace by saying it was done mainly because of "blowouts", let me remind them that the Yanks have scored FIVE runs or more in ten of their 18 games and scored FOUR runs in 2 other games.

Coincidentally, in the other 6 games when the Yanks have scored THREE or less runs,
four of those times came when CC was pitching.

I'm NOT here trying to say CC is having a good season.

I'll just stand by my post # 53 .....the WHOLE post.

And here I thought you DONE! But I guess when you're starved for attention you just can't help yourself.