Exclusive Zach Collins - An In-Depth Discussion

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Zach is a typical Charlotte Hornets center. Which means we should go and talk to thrm about a trade....
 
James lamphear said:
A lot of you guys says he foul to much but out of 156 games he has only foul out 7 times in his career.
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He averages a foul every 7 minutes for his career, only has started 12 games, and he shoots 44% from the field. It's not like he's playing enough to get disqualified regularly, yet he's still picking up fouls and it's also the manner and frequency. He's a master of picking up an unnecessary foul, then trying to make up for it and immediately picking up another challenging a shot no one in the NBA was going to block.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
Simple (simplistic?) question.Would the Blazers have been better off in the bubble and against the Flakers with Ariza in place of Zach? What about Harkless or Aminu?
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Zach didn't play against the Lakers. See people are so blinded by their hot take that they blame someone for something he wasn't even a part of. We were 9-3 in the 12 games Zach started this year. They were 27-40 in the games he didn't play. I'm not saying Zach is the answer or the main reason for this but I think he deserves more than 12 games, most of which he was injured for, to at least show if he can do anything. We saw Meyers

Drttimmy said:
I'd be more optimistic if he had shown more improvement since his rookie year. Statistically, he's improved, but from an impact perspective the improvement is from raw rookie with potential to serviceable backup. Was kind of expecting more. I never saw him as a future All Star, but I thought he'd become a reliable shooter with a handful of go-to post moves along with strong defense. None of that has materialized yet and I'm not sure it will based on his progression rate so far. He'll have to make a large leap at some point, but he's always injured making that difficult. We gave Meyers a 4 year extension with a worse progression rate, so I'm sure we'll see if he can make that leap as a Blazer.
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PCmor7 said:
He averages a foul every 7 minutes for his career, only has started 12 games, and he shoots 44% from the field. It's not like he's playing enough to get disqualified regularly, yet he's still picking up fouls and it's also the manner and frequency. He's a master of picking up an unnecessary foul, then trying to make up for it and immediately picking up another challenging a shot no one in the NBA was going to block.
Click to expand...
One of my points in the video is that some people are judging Zach for not being great in a limited amount of games in his 3rd season. We have no idea if he will learn to foul less with more experience. A foul every 7 minutes still wouldn't result in fouling out in 35 minutes of action. This is can be cleaned up with minutes on the court. I get the injury concern being a huge factor and he'll definitely struggle to make it in this league if he can't stay healthy.
 
PCmor7 said:
He averages a foul every 7 minutes for his career, only has started 12 games, and he shoots 44% from the field. It's not like he's playing enough to get disqualified regularly, yet he's still picking up fouls and it's also the manner and frequency. He's a master of picking up an unnecessary foul, then trying to make up for it and immediately picking up another challenging a shot no one in the NBA was going to block.
Click to expand...
Challenge a shot that don't mean he trying to block it every time it means he trying to make it difficult shot for the offense player. Yes he make some foolish fouls here then there. Now your saying he picks up a foul every 7 and he average 26 minutes a game so your now telling me he gets 3 to 4 fouls and some of them because he defending the rim I think that's pretty good due to how many shots that he alter at the rim. But some of you don't want say anything about that do they. I going to say this Zach does more positive things on the court then negatives. Does he have things to work on of course he does. Every player does negative things on the floor from the best to the worst. But some players negative gets over look because they score a lot of points but those might have cost us the game.
 
hoopsjock said:
Zach didn't play against the Lakers. See people are so blinded by their hot take that they blame someone for something he wasn't even a part of. We were 9-3 in the 12 games Zach started this year. They were 27-40 in the games he didn't play. I'm not saying Zach is the answer or the main reason for this but I think he deserves more than 12 games, most of which he was injured for, to at least show if he can do anything. We saw Meyers



One of my points in the video is that some people are judging Zach for not being great in a limited amount of games in his 3rd season. We have no idea if he will learn to foul less with more experience. A foul every 7 minutes still wouldn't result in fouling out in 35 minutes of action. This is can be cleaned up with minutes on the court. I get the injury concern being a huge factor and he'll definitely struggle to make it in this league if he can't stay healthy.
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We don't know if he injury prone due to this is 1st year he been hurt. A lot of people in here wants Griffin but guess want when was the last time he finished a season or when was the last time he didn't sit out games due to be injured.
 
blazerkor said:
OK then, let him play and see what he can earn himself next season.
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does that mean that if Portland has an opportunity to get an established PF they should decline so they can 'feature' Zach as the starter?

yeah, that was a bit rhetorical because I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant. Zach was going to have that opportunity this season. He was the starter. But that was by default because olshey cleared the roster of any meaningful competition. I mean, Tolliver and Hezonja....LOL

the concern is that Zach could be extended in the off-season and we know Olshey's history with extensions and his guys
 


We could had Bam as our big instead of Zach. This dude is already not only good but getting better reviews than KAT
 
hoopsjock said:
Zach didn't play against the Lakers. See people are so blinded by their hot take that they blame someone for something he wasn't even a part of. We were 9-3 in the 12 games Zach started this year. They were 27-40 in the games he didn't play. I'm not saying Zach is the answer or the main reason for this but I think he deserves more than 12 games, most of which he was injured for, to at least show if he can do anything. We saw Meyers



One of my points in the video is that some people are judging Zach for not being great in a limited amount of games in his 3rd season. We have no idea if he will learn to foul less with more experience. A foul every 7 minutes still wouldn't result in fouling out in 35 minutes of action. This is can be cleaned up with minutes on the court. I get the injury concern being a huge factor and he'll definitely struggle to make it in this league if he can't stay healthy.
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No offense, but you kinda missed my point. Even if Zach had been available, the team would have been better off with someone like Ariza. On-the-job training for a project player is fine when a team is rebuilding, but after reaching the WCF the Blazers should have been trying to win. The fact he is a project makes Zach (and Simons, and Little) the wrong guy - no matter what you think of his future. Dame is a great player, but he is not immortal.
 
James lamphear said:
We don't know if he injury prone due to this is 1st year he been hurt.
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I'm not sure it means he's injury prone either, but two major surgeries in 9 months is definitely a concern. I think it's even more of a concern because of the specific injuries....could be recurring issues with any shoulder injury severe enough to require surgery; and a stress reaction needing surgery could indicate other problems. He might be fine going forward or he might be one of those players who can't withstand the NBA grind
 
Buffalo Custard said:
No offense, but you kinda missed my point. Even if Zach had been available, the team would have been better off with someone like Ariza. On-the-job training for a project player is fine when a team is rebuilding, but after reaching the WCF the Blazers should have been trying to win. The fact he is a project makes Zach (and Simons, and Little) the wrong guy - no matter what you think of his future. Dame is a great player, but he is not immortal.
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He's not a project though.
 
hoopsjock said:
One of my points in the video is that some people are judging Zach for not being great in a limited amount of games in his 3rd season. We have no idea if he will learn to foul less with more experience. A foul every 7 minutes still wouldn't result in fouling out in 35 minutes of action. This is can be cleaned up with minutes on the court. I get the injury concern being a huge factor and he'll definitely struggle to make it in this league if he can't stay healthy.
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That's absolutely true, but we both know that at some point you have to make a verdict on what Zach is against what he could be and what he probably will be.

I see a guy with an intriguing combination of length and agility. I also see a big with very questionable hands and very little functional strength, diminishing greatly his ability to make much of his positives. He has a tendency to commit fouls in bunches, as I mentioned before, and also has injury question marks now. He doesn't show a great grasp of how to play the game, and, yeah, his youth probably has a lot to do with that, but there's no guarantee he's going to outgrow that, either. Not every player gets a year better; some just get a year older. We have a number of examples of players Zach's age who have or are starting to make significantly bigger contributions.

He's also not been given an overly complex role. Basically, he's the fifth option on offense. He's not utilized in the pick-and-roll very much. He's a garbage collector and a release valve in our offense.

I look at him and I just think this is another Meyers Leonard who we keep waiting on because there is such potential in his game. TBH, one could offer a strong argument that Meyers deserved patience more than Zach, because Meyers had better hands, a better touch, and incredible strength. Like Zach, he didn't seem to understand the game enough to get to where he put his positives together to the point where they could offset his liabilities.

Collins definitely still could get it, but how long are you willing to wait to find out? I just know that the list of bigs who overcame bad hands isn't a long one.
 
James lamphear said:
Challenge a shot that don't mean he trying to block it every time it means he trying to make it difficult shot for the offense player. Yes he make some foolish fouls here then there. Now your saying he picks up a foul every 7 and he average 26 minutes a game so your now telling me he gets 3 to 4 fouls and some of them because he defending the rim I think that's pretty good due to how many shots that he alter at the rim. But some of you don't want say anything about that do they. I going to say this Zach does more positive things on the court then negatives. Does he have things to work on of course he does. Every player does negative things on the floor from the best to the worst. But some players negative gets over look because they score a lot of points but those might have cost us the game.
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Kind of missed my entire point with your first sentence. As I recall, Zach in one game in the bubble where he picked up a quick foul on one end -- it might even have been a questionable call -- then, on the other end, he got behind a guard going to the basket and tried a hail-mary block from behind from a standing start. It was a one in a million chance for the block and wasn't challenging the shooter who already was by him. Instead, the guy scored and Zach fouled him, too.

That sums up Collins in a nutshell.

It's obvious you and I aren't going to agree. It seems weird to me, though, that you're so in on a guy who has a negative VORP for his career, shoots 50 percent from 2-point range when he's taking most of those shots right at the rim, has 30 double-figure scoring games, two double-figure rebound games and zero double-doubles.
 
PCmor7 said:
Kind of missed my entire point with your first sentence. As I recall, Zach in one game in the bubble where he picked up a quick foul on one end -- it might even have been a questionable call -- then, on the other end, he got behind a guard going to the basket and tried a hail-mary block from behind from a standing start. It was a one in a million chance for the block and wasn't challenging the shooter who already was by him. Instead, the guy scored and Zach fouled him, too.

That sums up Collins in a nutshell.

It's obvious you and I aren't going to agree. It seems weird to me, though, that you're so in on a guy who has a negative VORP for his career, shoots 50 percent from 2-point range when he's taking most of those shots right at the rim, has 30 double-figure scoring games, two double-figure rebound games and zero double-doubles.
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Nice your evaluation on Zach on one game. Plus his stats keeps going up every year. The guy fouls out 7 times in whole career. But you don't how many times he has players miss or just pass it back out at the rim because Zach has been there something that stats don't pick up. Or him running down someone to block there shots. The game last year where he came no where and block a shot against GS. Look at his playoffs performance especially against Denver. Do I like Zach Dame right I do!
 
wizenheimer said:
I'm not sure it means he's injury prone either, but two major surgeries in 9 months is definitely a concern. I think it's even more of a concern because of the specific injuries....could be recurring issues with any shoulder injury severe enough to require surgery; and a stress reaction needing surgery could indicate other problems. He might be fine going forward or he might be one of those players who can't withstand the NBA grind
Click to expand...
I guess is wait see if he going be that type of player that's going always be injured. As much I like him as player you would not have any choice but move on.
 
wizenheimer said:
does that mean that if Portland has an opportunity to get an established PF they should decline so they can 'feature' Zach as the starter?

yeah, that was a bit rhetorical because I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant. Zach was going to have that opportunity this season. He was the starter. But that was by default because olshey cleared the roster of any meaningful competition. I mean, Tolliver and Hezonja....LOL

the concern is that Zach could be extended in the off-season and we know Olshey's history with extensions and his guys
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No, I'm all for getting a better starting PF and letting Zach come off the bench at both PF and C or if we can get really solid value for the guy, ship him out.
 
I got bore and watch some the blazers bubble games. 76'ers Rockets Clippers. All 3 games Zach was solid on defense by contesting shots at the rim or outside by closing out. I think out those 3 games probably the rockets game was overall his best game both side. Where he gets on offense is bringing the ball down something he can correct. He still has hold his spot underneath on rebounds against bigger and stronger guys another he can change. Plus on offense sometimes on the post he try to make to many moves before shooting and usually it ends up in a miss. Instead make one quick move and go up might more successful on the post. What I like he not afraid to shoot the ball even if he miss the shot or make it. He probably will never be a big scorer on this team due to lack opportunity. But I believe he is big piece to the team for his defense and even though he don't get a lot opportunity in offense the defense still has to honor him on offense.
 
PCmor7 said:
He averages a foul every 7 minutes for his career, only has started 12 games, and he shoots 44% from the field. It's not like he's playing enough to get disqualified regularly, yet he's still picking up fouls and it's also the manner and frequency. He's a master of picking up an unnecessary foul, then trying to make up for it and immediately picking up another challenging a shot no one in the NBA was going to block.
Click to expand...
A foul every 7 minutes gives him 42 minutes per game. Non-issue.
 
Zach is OK. He could be a good enough starter for us to win a title if we can add another star.

Need at least two legit all stars.
 
Mediocre Man said:
People need to calm down on Zach. IT TAKES our BIGS LONGER TO DEVELOP
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The world has gone to hell, but it's happened - MM has become the voice of reason.

Zack is a fantastic role player - and yes, we need solid role players (e.g. Draymon)
 
I miss Chief starting and Zach coming off the bench. Those were the days.

For Zach, I think my primary concerns are he is not particularly athletic, his hands are downright bad, and his offensive touch around the rim is startlingly poor. I personally find him an extraordinarily frustrating player to watch. Of course, he can improve his hands a bit and his play around the rim a lot, but he will always be limited athletically, which really reduces his margin for error in every facet of the game.
 
We are gonna overpay this dude and it's Meyers all over again.
 
Natebishop3 said:
We are gonna overpay this dude and it's Meyers all over again.
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Bert wont allow that to happen. These are different times with respect to salaries and the PTB's.
Remember the team could become for sale...
 
Propagandist said:
I miss Chief starting and Zach coming off the bench. Those were the days.

For Zach, I think my primary concerns are he is not particularly athletic, his hands are downright bad, and his offensive touch around the rim is startlingly poor. I personally find him an extraordinarily frustrating player to watch. Of course, he can improve his hands a bit and his play around the rim a lot, but he will always be limited athletically, which really reduces his margin for error in every facet of the game.
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Ugh

I don’t. Chief while okay defensively was painful on the offensive end and had no business playing the 4.

Anytime he tried to generate his own fast break I knew it was going to be a disaster.
 
Zach hasn’t even been healthy yet and I’m not sure he’s even 22
 
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