Zach Collins and his return to the Blazers: ‘I’m definitely not rushing back’

[Propagandist]

I wanted Mitchell in that draft. I grew to like what Collins brings but hated that pick at the time. Mitchell likely would've been good even if he had a limited role at first but doesn't everyone kill Olshey when he drafts a guard no matter how good he is?

As for Bam, I don't buy that he should've been our pick. He was an energy big who could rebound and score around the basket in college. He showed absolutely zero playmaking ability or defensive versatility on the perimeter like he's become now. Of course hindsight would've been great but with Bam I think he was a product of going to the perfect system to develop those hidden talents. He's a tough one to gauge how he would've been on another team.

I'm not doing a coulda/shoulda thing. Not that I was super happy with the Zach pick, but I was open--and I still am. All I'm saying to whoever I can't remember, probably Eric, is that you can't just say things would not have worked. You can of course theorize, but it's crazy just to act like you can determine something like that definitively because you just can't.

That being said, I'd take either of those guys over Zach now.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm not doing a coulda/shoulda thing. Not that I was super happy with the Zach pick, but I was open--and I still am. All I'm saying to whoever I can't remember, probably Eric, is that you can't just say things would not have worked. You can of course theorize, but it's crazy just to act like you can determine something like that definitively because you just can't.

That being said, I'd take either of those guys over Zach now.

I get why some don't want to give up on Zach yet. Maybe they are right....I can't see the future

but to parlay that sentiment into the idea that more talented players like Mitchell or Bam wouldn't be the same in Portland is not a justification for taking Zach. All it is is an argument for getting rid of Blazer management if they would bollix the situation so badly all-star talent would be wasted in Portland. Makes no sense and that anyone would think that a persuasive pro-Zach argument is baffling

I'm jaded I guess because I do not get very impressed when a young player flashes some future upside. Qyntel Woods flashed some upside; so did Travis Outlaw, Jarret Jack, Sebastian Telfaire, Channing Frye, Sergio Rodriguez, and Thomas Robinson. Martell Webster and Rudy Fernandez flashed a lot of potential. But none of those guys came with a couple of zip-codes of the potential they occasionally showed. They were just role players, at best. That was their real upside, and odds seem to point toward Zach being another one

 

[Propagandist]

Moe and Aminu were really bad in our WCF run and just about everyone unanimously thought Stotts should make the move to have Hood and Zach start instead of them.

Glad I'm not the one defending Chief and Mo!

Not since the Sheed, Pippen, Smith, et al team had we made it to the WCF. Say what you will about Chief and Moe, but they were on that team, and like I said before, we've looked lost ever since (for many many reasons, I'm sure, but they are objectively gone. There is no theorizing that.).

And as to them being really bad in our WCF run. We still made the WCF! That was incredible. Maybe Terry used them wrong, haha, or maybe (and this what I think) the expectations for those guys got all weird. Why does Roco get to be who he is and Chief didn't? Same with DJJ and RHJ or whomever? They were who they were and it worked (kind of, or sometimes).

Hey, I know we needed upgrades, but I still appreciated those guys (especially with Zach coming off the bench).

 

[Propagandist]

I get why some don't want to give up on Zach yet. Maybe they are right....I can't see the future

but to parlay that sentiment into the idea that more talented players like Mitchell or Bam wouldn't be the same in Portland is not a justification for taking Zach. All it is is an argument for getting rid of Blazer management if they would bollix the situation so badly all-star talent would be wasted in Portland. Makes no sense and that anyone would think that a persuasive pro-Zach argument is baffling

I'm jaded I guess because I do not get very impressed when a young player flashes some future upside. Qyntel Woods flashed some upside; so did Travis Outlaw, Jarret Jack, Sebastian Telfaire, Channing Frye, Sergio Rodriguez, and Thomas Robinson. Martell Webster and Rudy Fernandez flashed a lot of potential. But none of those guys came with a couple of zip-codes of the potential they occasionally showed. They were just role players, at best. That was their real upside, and odds seem to point toward Zach being another one

I think you're right. And like @Scalma said the other day, and I'm paraphrasing: it feels like we've been watching the same movie ever since LA left. And that's on management.

 

[James lamphear]

I get why some don't want to give up on Zach yet. Maybe they are right....I can't see the future

but to parlay that sentiment into the idea that more talented players like Mitchell or Bam wouldn't be the same in Portland is not a justification for taking Zach. All it is is an argument for getting rid of Blazer management if they would bollix the situation so badly all-star talent would be wasted in Portland. Makes no sense and that anyone would think that a persuasive pro-Zach argument is baffling

I'm jaded I guess because I do not get very impressed when a young player flashes some future upside. Qyntel Woods flashed some upside; so did Travis Outlaw, Jarret Jack, Sebastian Telfaire, Channing Frye, Sergio Rodriguez, and Thomas Robinson. Martell Webster and Rudy Fernandez flashed a lot of potential. But none of those guys came with a couple of zip-codes of the potential they occasionally showed. They were just role players, at best. That was their real upside, and odds seem to point toward Zach being another one

That what he is a role that's all and fits the role.

 

[James lamphear]

Not since the Sheed, Pippen, Smith, et al team had we made it to the WCF. Say what you will about Chief and Moe, but they were on that team, and like I said before, we've looked lost ever since (for many many reasons, I'm sure, but they are objectively gone. There is no theorizing that.).

And as to them being really bad in our WCF run. We still made the WCF! That was incredible. Maybe Terry used them wrong, haha, or maybe (and this what I think) the expectations for those guys got all weird. Why does Roco get to be who he is and Chief didn't? Same with DJJ and RHJ or whomever? They were who they were and it worked (kind of, or sometimes).

Hey, I know we needed upgrades, but I still appreciated those guys (especially with Zach coming off the bench).

Zach had DBPM +2.7 in the playoffs that year.

 

[wizenheimer]

Zach had DBPM +2.7 in the playoffs that year.

in only 17 minutes a game. He was 8th in minutes, and he was a backup. Plus, he spent 80% of his time at C

that does not look like a real solid stat to me, unless the argument is Zach should be a limited minutes backup C

 

[James lamphear]

in only 17 minutes a game. He was 8th in minutes, and he was a backup. Plus, he spent 80% of his time at C

that does not look like a real solid stat to me, unless the argument is Zach should be a limited minutes backup C

Did you even the playoffs that year and I guess you forgot all those crucial defense stop he made in the Denver series to get WCF. Stats are only part of the makeup of player and yes I am high on Zach. But until he plays again this the last I will be talking about it.

 

[lawai'a]

in only 17 minutes a game. He was 8th in minutes, and he was a backup. Plus, he spent 80% of his time at C

that does not look like a real solid stat to me, unless the argument is Zach should be a limited minutes backup C

Looks like a defensive savant compared to our current backup at -1:7. Seems he would solidify the kanter-melo second string considerably. adds up to like a 4.5 swing in favor of better defense as our big off the bench?

 

[wizenheimer]

Looks like a defensive savant compared to our current backup at -1:7. Seems he would solidify the kanter-melo second string considerably. adds up to like a 4.5 swing in favor of better defense as our big off the bench?

sure, if you're naive enough to believe that particular cherry-picked stat is actually Zach's norm and what you can count on; and, if you completely ignore the offensive end of the floor

for instance, last season his DBPM was -1.4. And before anyone says "sample size", it's not a smaller sample size than those playoffs; in fact he played more minutes last season than in those playoffs. His career DBPM is 0.1, not 2.7. And of course, there are two ends of the floor. Zach's career BPM is -2.6 because he's bad at offense; Kanter's is -0.2

if the Blazers decide to choose between Zach and Kanter for backup C, I'd be kind of OK if they chose Zach....as long as they don't pay him more than the 5M Kanter is making. I think it would be a mistake because Kanter is the better player, and more dependable, by a long shot. But in terms of Blazer mistakes that wouldn't be a very consequential one

 

[jlprk]

if the Blazers decide to choose between Zach and Kanter for backup C, I'd be kind of OK if they chose Zach....as long as they don't pay him more than the 5M Kanter is making. I think it would be a mistake because Kanter is the better player, and more dependable, by a long shot. But in terms of Blazer mistakes that wouldn't be a very consequential one

If Olshey gets rid of one of our best players, Kanter, for Collins, he will repeat the bonehead move of dumping one of our best players, Ed Davis, for Collins.

Losing Kanter would be very consequential. He keeps us in the game.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

If Olshey gets rid of one of our best players, Kanter, for Collins, he will repeat the bonehead move of dumping one of our best players, Ed Davis, for Collins.

Losing Kanter would be very consequential. He keeps us in the game.

Ed Davis plays 13 mpg for the Wolves and averages 2.2 ppg. Olshey let Davis walk in 2018 and the Blazers went to the WCF in 2019. And as you said, Kanter's great. So why should we have kept Davis? Olshey didn't make a mistake at all.

 

[Tince]

Latest article from The Athletic says his timetable was 4-6 months, they're going to play it safe, so 6 months is best case scenario.

Surgery was Dec 30. 6 months is June 30, which would be the start of the 6th week of the playoffs.

Translation: Out for the season.

https://theathletic.com/2539890/202...a-long-playoff-run/?source=emp_shared_article

 

[B-Roy]

So we aren’t getting our starting power forward back?

 

[jlprk]

So we aren’t getting our starting power forward back?

No loss. He was never really our starter. Just in Olshey's mind.

Anyone's better...Melo, Ed Davis, Aminu, Vonleh, Harkless, and of course Kanter or Covington. Giles or Wenyen Gabriel would be his equal, in foul trouble almost as fast.

 

[jlprk]

Ed Davis plays 13 mpg for the Wolves and averages 2.2 ppg. Olshey let Davis walk in 2018 and the Blazers went to the WCF in 2019. And as you said, Kanter's great. So why should we have kept Davis? Olshey didn't make a mistake at all.

Because Davis is much, much better than Collins. Put Collins on the Wolves with Davis, and the coach will play Davis more minutes, while Collins sits in foul trouble.