Zach Collins is ready

[Blazers Roy]

A two way big > a two way guard

Not even close.

There’s not a GM in the league that wouldn’t start their franchise with A instead of B.

This reasoning is similar to the one behind picking Oden over Durant.

 

[Mediocre Man]

This reasoning is similar to the one behind picking Oden over Durant.

Bowie over Jordan

 

[e_blazer]

And here I thought you needed both talented guards and big men to win a title.

 

[Scalma]

This reasoning is similar to the one behind picking Oden over Durant.

Exactly, and teams will continue to think that way, so what’s your point?

 

[julius]

Bowie over Jordan

Thompson over Bird (well that and the fear he'd refuse to play here).
Martin over Julius Erving (well..)...

Hm, you know...this franchise seems to be more miss than hit when it comes to draft picks.

 

[ripcityboy]

Thompson over Bird (well that and the fear he'd refuse to play here).
Martin over Julius Erving (well..)...

Hm, you know...this franchise seems to be more miss than hit when it comes to draft picks.

Automatically blaming the franchise for missing out on the best players in each draft regardless where they were taken? Fuck! We are turning into Jets fans.

 

[blue9]

Karl Malone and Shawn Kemp got to the finals, too.

They did. So did Bosh, KG, and Sheed. But none of them were the cornerstone of their Finals teams...when they were cornerstones they didn't do shit in the Playoffs (with the exception of Sheed).

 

[Blazers Roy]

Exactly, and teams will continue to think that way, so what’s your point?

Some teams think this way and other teams are more flexible. Saying that a tall prospect is better than a shorter prospect is a bit weird.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Hm, you know...this franchise seems to be more miss than hit when it comes to draft picks.

It's actually not that bad.
Look at how these players were obtained:

Clyde Drexler (#14 pick)
Terry Porter (#24 pick)
Cliff Robinson (#36 pick)
Drazen Petrovic (#60 pick!)
Sabonis (#24 pick . messy situation, but still regarded as one of the best centers in the world at that time)
Jermaine O’Neal (#17 pick)
Zach Randolph (#19 pick)
Roy (for randy foye and telfair?)
LMA (for tyrus thomas)
Lillard (for the body of Gerald Wallace and look at all the clowns selected after him).
CJ (#10 pick in a pretty weak draft)

*In bold are Hall of Famers.

There are probably other gems picked by the Blazers over the years, but i'm too young to know about all of them

 

[Scalma]

Some teams think this way and other teams are more flexible. Saying that a tall prospect is better than a shorter prospect is a bit weird.

Lol no it’s not. Why do you think any big that has an ounce of ability gets pushed ahead of everyone else on draft night? A two way big impacts the game more than a two way guard.

Let’s just theoretically say Collins lives up to his ceiling. What’s the value of a guy that can score from anywhere and defend the rim and the perimeter? How many of those guys are there currently in the NBA? Now how many Donavan Mitchell’s are there? I think there’s a big gap between the two.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Thompson over Bird (well that and the fear he'd refuse to play here).
Martin over Julius Erving (well..)...

Hm, you know...this franchise seems to be more miss than hit when it comes to draft picks.

Portland should never draft a center in the lottery

 

[Drttimmy]

It's actually not that bad.
Look at how these players were obtained:

Clyde Drexler (#14 pick)
Terry Porter (#24 pick)
Cliff Robinson (#36 pick)
Drazen Petrovic (#60 pick!)
Sabonis (#24 pick . messy situation, but still regarded as one of the best centers in the world at that time)
Jermaine O’Neal (#17 pick)
Zach Randolph (#19 pick)
Roy (for randy foye and telfair?)
LMA (for tyrus thomas)
Lillard (for the body of Gerald Wallace and look at all the clowns selected after him).
CJ (#10 pick in a pretty weak draft)

*In bold are Hall of Famers.

There are probably other gems picked by the Blazers over the years, but i'm too young to know about all of them

I like this list to illustrate why it will be difficult for Portland to get bona fide starters if they continue to try competing for the bottom seeds in the playoffs....year after year. During these eras, the FO wisely mined the little used caverns that housed oversea, under-aged, small school, and troubled players. More than half that list is stocked by them. We got in early, but everyone is hip now.

For your argument, though, great points. Portland's definitely played the draft shrewdly, at times.

 

[Drttimmy]

Portland should never draft a center in the lottery

At least with the first or 2nd picks in the draft. What are they, 0-5? I guess, 1-5 because Walton brought a championship. There should be a 30-30 special on our ineptitude, because it might be unprecedented in all sports.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Automatically blaming the franchise for missing out on the best players in each draft regardless where they were taken? Fuck! We are turning into Jets fans.

It's different than sayi

At least with the first or 2nd picks in the draft. What are they, 0-5? I guess, 1-5 because Walton brought a championship. There should be a 30-30 special on our ineptitude, because it might be unprecedented in all sports.

Meyers was a lottery pick

 

[Mediocre Man]

Automatically blaming the franchise for missing out on the best players in each draft regardless where they were taken? Fuck! We are turning into Jets fans.

Different than saying we should have taken Greek Freak instead of CJ. No one thought he was cant miss. Jordan, KD, Bird were all thought of as cant miss

 

[Mediocre Man]

Lol no it’s not. Why do you think any big that has an ounce of ability gets pushed ahead of everyone else on draft night? A two way big impacts the game more than a two way guard.

Let’s just theoretically say Collins lives up to his ceiling. What’s the value of a guy that can score from anywhere and defend the rim and the perimeter? How many of those guys are there currently in the NBA? Now how many Donavan Mitchell’s are there? I think there’s a big gap between the two.

Youre describing the perfect big. A good wing isnt as valuable as the perfect big, just as a good big isnt as valuable as the perfect wing

 

[tlongII]

Youre describing the perfect big. A good wing isnt as valuable as the perfect big, just as a good big isnt as valuable as the perfect wing

So you’re saying Donovan Mitchell is the perfect wing?

 

[Mediocre Man]

So you’re saying Donovan Mitchell is the perfect wing?

As much as Zach Collins is the perfect big

 

[Blazers Roy]

Lol no it’s not. Why do you think any big that has an ounce of ability gets pushed ahead of everyone else on draft night? A two way big impacts the game more than a two way guard.

Let’s just theoretically say Collins lives up to his ceiling. What’s the value of a guy that can score from anywhere and defend the rim and the perimeter? How many of those guys are there currently in the NBA? Now how many Donavan Mitchell’s are there? I think there’s a big gap between the two.

What's the value of a 6'3 guy who is a so-so defender but can handle the ball really well and shoot from anywhere on the court in insane percentages?

I'm pretty sure he's worth a championship.

I'm kinda with you in your argument because i love versatile bigs who can play on both ends, but at the same time the NBA was dominated this past decade by Lebron,Kobe and Curry - non of them can be considered "two way bigs".

 

[BonesJones]

We could've had Mitchell as well. Utah traded Lyles and the 24th pick (Lydon) for Mitchell.

We should've traded 26, Vonleh, and filler.

 

[ripcityboy]

Seriously, we should be pairing off Vonleh/Collins per matchup. That should be our future rotation. Vonleh for big boys/around the rim/defensive specialist stuff.... Collins can learn while blocking out guys that take mid range jumpers or forwards than move out to hit the three. We get another shooter to replace Moe at SF with Aminu and that could be our starting rotation. I feel sorry for Swanigan but he's be shit out of luck for the foreseeable future.

 

[handiman]

What's the value of a 6'3 guy who is a so-so defender but can handle the ball really well and shoot from anywhere on the court in insane percentages?

I'm pretty sure he's worth a championship.

I'm kinda with you in your argument because i love versatile bigs who can play on both ends, but at the same time the NBA was dominated this past decade by Lebron,Kobe and Curry - non of them can be considered "two way bigs".

Well... LeBron might as well be considered a PF, when you think who he can match up with. He's arguably the best PF of all-time when viewed in that light. And regardless of position, there's no better two-way player.

Kobe had Shaq and Gasol throughout his championship runs, both dominant inside players. Both were more offense than defense, but certainly created problems at the other end. Curry has Green, one of the most position-less players in the game, but clearly a dominant two-way big who is seen by many as the cornerstone of the team.

 

[blue9]

The fact of the matter is that wings can create for themselves (and others) whereas bigs generally cannot. Since the modern era, good wings have always been VASTLY more important to winning than good bigs. If you can't handle the ball, your impact is limited. It's why we've consistently been better with Lillard* than we were with LMA. It's why Lillard* has had FAR more success than Anthony Davis. If you're not Tim Duncan, you have no business being your team's best player.

*I realize Lillard is not a wing, but he plays more like a wing than like a PG.

 

[julius]

I asked this earlier, but I don't remember the answer. Has Meyers been hurt/sick?

 

[riverman]

I asked this earlier, but I don't remember the answer. Has Meyers been hurt/sick?

he was sick...now he's just butt hurt

 

[julius]

he was sick...now he's just butt hurt

If he's healthy, he's been passed by Collins

 

[riverman]

I

If he's healthy, he's been passed by Collins

think it's Stotts style to do this...look at different rosters early in the season...unlike some teams he does give his rookies some rope out there...Collins gets 10 boards a game in limited minutes....he'll stay on the court...

 

[Scalma]

The fact of the matter is that wings can create for themselves (and others) whereas bigs generally cannot. Since the modern era, good wings have always been VASTLY more important to winning than good bigs. If you can't handle the ball, your impact is limited. It's why we've consistently been better with Lillard* than we were with LMA.

1. There have been more good wings than bigs, yes, but that doesn’t mean they’re more valuable. Two way bigs are just rare (thus more valuable)

2. Guys like LA can create for themselves. You don’t have to be able to put the ball on the floor to create for yourself.

3. How have we been better without Aldridge? We havent won 50+ once since he’s been gone.

 

[GrandJury]

3. How have we been better without Aldridge? We havent won 50+ once since he’s been gone.

NOT 1 TIME!!

 

[Mediocre Man]

1. There have been more good wings than bigs, yes, but that doesn’t mean they’re more valuable. Two way bigs are just rare (thus more valuable)

2. Guys like LA can create for themselves. You don’t have to be able to put the ball on the floor to create for yourself.

3. How have we been better without Aldridge? We havent won 50+ once since he’s been gone.

So in the 84 draft, you have to pick Jordan or Olajuwan. Who is your pick?