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riverman said:
Olajuwan...we had Drexler so...a big would've been the move....nobody at the time thought Jordan would be what he turned out to be.
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Several people thought he was the best player. Had just been wooden award winner too, i believe
 
julius said:
Thompson over Bird (well that and the fear he'd refuse to play here).
Martin over Julius Erving (well..)...

Hm, you know...this franchise seems to be more miss than hit when it comes to draft picks.
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Not taking Bird had nothing to do with him refusing to play here. Not sure where that came from.

Bird was drafted by BOS after his junior year at Indiana State. It was a very shrewd move by Red Auerbach. Back then, college players could not enter the draft early unless they declared financial hardship and were granted an exception by the NCAA. The most notable hardship exception was Julius Irving - it made the cover of Sports Illustrated.

Since Bird had another year of eligibility, had not declared hardship and was going back to Indiana State for his senior year, most GMs didn't think to draft him. Auerbach knew Bird was special and drafted him as "junior eligible", a loophole in the NCAA rules that I don't think anyone had used before Bird was drafted.

Because Bird had briefly attended Indiana University (for like two weeks) as a freshman, but dropped out and sat out the rest of his freshman year, he was technically eligible to be drafted after his junior year at Indiana State. Because he never played in a game for IU, Bird still had four years of eligibility at Indiana State, which he used, but that two weeks at IU made him draft eligible a year before graduating.

Of course, BOS would have to wait a year to sign Bird, but the wait was well worth it. Five GMs passed on Bird, not because they questioned his talent or his desire to play for them, they just didn't realize they COULD draft him.

BNM
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Not true. Bob Knight (his Olympic coach) saw it coming. Surely you've heard of his pre-draft conversation with Blazer GM Stu Inman: "I was standing next to my friend as we watched us practice and I said, 'You're luckier than anybody could be in basketball, you have a chance to get Jordan,'" Knight said. "He said, 'Yeah, Bob, he's great, but we need a big man.' And I told him, 'Play Jordan at center and he'll lead the league in scoring. He's that good.'"
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That's just Blowhard Bob Knight claiming years later that he foresaw the future. I don't believe him. Jordan wasn't famous and the guys drafted ahead of him were.

Also, they were tall for centers and he was short for a forward. No one expected him to play guard, but he latched on with the (pre-Magic) tallest guard in history, Doug Collins, the only coach who could teach him to be a guard.
 
jlprk said:
That's just Blowhard Bob Knight claiming years later that he foresaw the future. I don't believe him. Jordan wasn't famous and the guys drafted ahead of him were.

Also, they were tall for centers and he was short for a forward. No one expected him to play guard, but he latched on with the (pre-Magic) tallest guard in history, Doug Collins, the only coach who could teach him to be a guard.
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What are you talking about???? He hit the game winner for the NCAA championship... This is bogus...
 
dviss1 said:
What are you talking about???? He hit the game winner for the NCAA championship... This is bogus...
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Yeah, it's not like he had a starring role on one of the most star-studded college rosters of all-time, right?
 
handiman said:
Yeah, it's not like he had a starring role on one of the most star-studded college rosters of all-time, right?
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That and the 1984 Olympic team, which he led in scoring en route to the gold...
 
riverman said:
That was a great one...so was that Michigan team with Chris Weber...
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How is this even a debate?

Jordan averaged:

PPG 19.6
RPG 5.3
APG 2.1
BPG 1.1
SPG 1.6

While winning the AP Player of the Year, NABC (coaches choice) Player of the Year, and TSN (The Sporting News) Player of the Year.

Buuuut he wasn't on anyone's radar... Jordan wasn't famous...
 
Boob-No-More said:
Not taking Bird had nothing to do with him refusing to play here. Not sure where that came from.

Bird was drafted by BOS after his junior year at Indiana State. It was a very shrewd move by Red Auerbach. Back then, college players could not enter the draft early unless they declared financial hardship and were granted an exception by the NCAA. The most notable hardship exception was Julius Irving - it made the cover of Sports Illustrated.

Since Bird had another year of eligibility, had not declared hardship and was going back to Indiana State for his senior year, most GMs didn't think to draft him. Auerbach knew Bird was special and drafted him as "junior eligible", a loophole in the NCAA rules that I don't think anyone had used before Bird was drafted.

Because Bird had briefly attended Indiana University (for like two weeks) as a freshman, but dropped out and sat out the rest of his freshman year, he was technically eligible to be drafted after his junior year at Indiana State. Because he never played in a game for IU, Bird still had four years of eligibility at Indiana State, which he used, but that two weeks at IU made him draft eligible a year before graduating.

Of course, BOS would have to wait a year to sign Bird, but the wait was well worth it. Five GMs passed on Bird, not because they questioned his talent or his desire to play for them, they just didn't realize they COULD draft him.

BNM
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Nailed it
 
dviss1 said:
How is this even a debate?

Jordan averaged:

PPG 19.6
RPG 5.3
APG 2.1
BPG 1.1
SPG 1.6

While winning the AP Player of the Year, NABC (coaches choice) Player of the Year, and TSN (The Sporting News) Player of the Year.

Buuuut he wasn't on anyone's radar... Jordan wasn't famous...
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I didn't start a debate.....I come into the conversation claiming to be one of the few who don't worship the guy...the entire world debates that point of view...not looking to argue the point...I think it was simple...I didn't notice him until he played against the Blazers...wasn't a big college ball fan..especially east coast college ball but it's all good. Some of us were older when he was drafted...I always saw Jordan the way Blazer fans now see Kobe....villain, not hero..I rooted for the Jazz against the Bulls both times
 
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dviss1 said:
Buuuut he wasn't on anyone's radar... Jordan wasn't famous...
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jlprk said that...not me...I said as a rookie we didn't know he'd become the Ali type superstar he became..his brand would be so big..that was MY point..and really, it's not an issue either way
 
riverman said:
jlprk said that...not me...I said as a rookie we didn't know he'd become the Ali type superstar he became..his brand would be so big..that was MY point..and really, it's not an issue either way
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28/7/6 as a rookie

Not trying to be a jerk, but we all knew
 
I just like the flow and the way the team plays when Collins is on the floor especially with starters. Offensively and defensively.
 
Blazers Roy said:
Good point, i know i expected him to win a championship by himself.
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I may be mistaken, but I think numerous people, including the Warriors, have stated Draymond is the key to that team, and their most valuable player for what he brings defensively, leadership wise, and offensively. He allows their lineup versatility, is a focus point on their O for passing and pushing tempo, and is DPoy.

Draymond is irreplaceable.

They drafted him and suddenly started dominating.
 
riverman said:
If I remember right Curry nursed bum ankles before Draymond showed up...he was injured a lot early on
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He said Steph Curry was worth a championship.

Steph Curry didn’t sniff one until Draymond shows up...

And when Draymond is out, what do you know, they struggle...
 
I'm not ready to anoint Zach Collins as a mixture of Michael Jordan and Draymond Green. But I am glad he's getting consistent minutes.

:cheers:
 
He’s not playing enough. Aminu was getting worked by Gibson, did Terry make an adjustment? Nope. And where was Vonleh
 
Aminu has to play at the 3 and Zach at the 4. Everybody see's this, just not Dumbass Stotts
 
riverman said:
Olajuwan...we had Drexler so...a big would've been the move....nobody at the time thought Jordan would be what he turned out to be.
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Scalma said:
Even in hindsight, if I were starting a team, I’d pick Olajuwon.
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dviss1 said:
The notion that nobody knew what Jordan was gonna be is fallacy. Especially after hitting the game winning shot.
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handiman said:
I wish we could go back in time and slap some sense into people. It's true that most people undervalued Jordan at the time, but there are enough of those accounts, and enough evidence of just how good he was already, it should have been an easy pick if people weren't blinded by the "need a big" doctrine.
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dviss1 said:
What are you talking about???? He hit the game winner for the NCAA championship... This is bogus...
Click to expand...

handiman said:
Yeah, it's not like he had a starring role on one of the most star-studded college rosters of all-time, right?
Click to expand...

That was a college team with many stars (2 other top-6 picks his first 2 years, 3 other top-6 picks his junior year). For the last shot, Georgetown overlooked the weakest guy, the freshman, who then made the last shot. Nice, but that doesn't make him the future GOAT. Despite taking that one shot (and far more important, 2 years later being Player of the Year due to being on the #1-rated team which caved in the playoffs to an inferior Indiana team, when he was outscored by the likes of Uwe Blab and Stew Robinson, making an impression 3 months before his draft), you need to learn that he wasn't the best-known guy in the draft among us ordinary fans (who couldn't afford Sports Illustrated, just as few today read ESPN Insider): For a couple of years before the draft, I had seen a few Associated Press articles about Olajuwon and Bowie. Jordan articles? Zero. That's why I (and so many others who were fans and have argued this for years with you pups) say that they were more famous than Jordan.

If you want to criticize Blazer GM Stu Inman (a supposed expert whose job was to foretell the future) for not knowing, that's one thing. (I'd still disagree, since the league was all about centers then, not short 6-6 small forwards. Jordan moved to guard and changed that. You think that Inman should have seen that epic change coming.) But you say that Jordan was so laughably famous that even the fan/man on the street would have taken him first, before the more-publicized Olajuwon and Bowie. Wrong.
 
jlprk said:
That was a college team with many stars (2 other top-6 picks his first 2 years, 3 other top-6 picks his junior year). For the last shot, Georgetown overlooked the weakest guy, the freshman, who then made the last shot. Nice, but that doesn't make him the future GOAT. Despite taking that one shot (and far more important, 2 years later being Player of the Year due to being on the #1-rated team which caved in the playoffs to an inferior Indiana team, when he was outscored by the likes of Uwe Blab and Stew Robinson, making an impression 3 months before his draft), you need to learn that he wasn't the best-known guy in the draft among us ordinary fans (who couldn't afford Sports Illustrated, just as few today read ESPN Insider): For a couple of years before the draft, I had seen a few Associated Press articles about Olajuwon and Bowie. Jordan articles? Zero. That's why I (and so many others who were fans and have argued this for years with you pups) say that they were more famous than Jordan.

If you want to criticize Blazer GM Stu Inman (a supposed expert whose job was to foretell the future) for not knowing, that's one thing. (I'd still disagree, since the league was all about centers then, not short 6-6 small forwards. Jordan moved to guard and changed that. You think that Inman should have seen that epic change coming.) But you say that Jordan was so famous that even the fan/man on the street would have taken him first, before the more-publicized Olajuwon and Bowie. Wrong.
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[/QUOTE]
This
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Did you not read Knight's quote? His point was that talent trumps positional need (an axiom that is as true now as it was then), and Jordan's talent was superior to all others', irrespective of position.
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Our team needs load of talent whether it's a position of need or not. High profile free agents do not sign with our team, so we must get our talent via draft picks and trades.

I totally agree with talent trumping positional need.
 
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