Zimmerman Case - Lightning Rod

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My hope is that people learn from this tragedy and try to not solve problems with illegal violence. And if they do, that they are eradicated. I wish Bryan Stow had had a weapon on him and the legal right to use it when people started shoving his head into concrete and punching him in the face for being a Giants fan at a Dodger game. Instead, he's a brain-damaged, crippled and unemployed firefighter.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The media made it about race when they tried to make the dude out as a white guy.

If his name had been Juan Hernandez I guarantee this case wouldn't even have made the national news, but his name is George Zimmerman, which is about as white as you can get.
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The other hypothetical that counts: not chasing him when you're told to wait for the police!

Like I said, I have no clue how this really went down, so I don't know how to feel. I'm not pro him being convicted or not convicted. Too many unknowns.
 
BrianFromWA said:
My hope is that people learn from this tragedy and try to not solve problems with illegal violence. And if they do, that they are eradicated. I wish Bryan Stow had had a weapon on him and the legal right to use it when people started shoving his head into concrete and punching him in the face for being a Giants fan at a Dodger game. Instead, he's a brain-damaged, crippled and unemployed firefighter.
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My problem with the whole situation is that he shouldn't have been there. I own guns, I have a CHL, but I almost never carry because A) I don't want to be in a situation like this one, and B) I don't want to feel "naked" like so many people who do carry on a daily basis. I would rather avoid situations where I might have to use my sidearm, rather than put myself in a position where I would have to use it (like Zimmerman did).

I get the whole "I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" theory, but I generally don't put myself in places or situations where I would ever need a loaded gun. Maybe that's just me.
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
The other hypothetical that counts: not chasing him when you're told to wait for the police!

Like I said, I have no clue how this really went down, so I don't know how to feel. I'm not pro him being convicted or not convicted. Too many unknowns.
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Sorry if I sound insensitive, but I really couldn't care less. People die every day, people are murdered every day, and this is not news to me. This shouldn't have been a huge national story. The only reason why it was is because it was a black kid, and a guy with a white sounding name. That's it. How many gang members are killed in Los Angeles every year? How many of them are under 18? How many are shot by latinos? This is not a news story.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Sorry if I sound insensitive, but I really couldn't care less. People die every day, people are murdered every day, and this is not news to me. This shouldn't have been a huge national story. The only reason why it was is because it was a black kid, and a guy with a white sounding name. That's it. How many gang members are killed in Los Angeles every year? How many of them are under 18? How many are shot by latinos? This is not a news story.
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I think we have bigger fish to fry as a nation as well. I think that although this MAY be multi-layered - the whole, assuming he was breaking into houses because he looked like a "thug" - is concerning, but its not like this doesn't happen dailyx1000 in other places. They compared this to the Emmitt Till case, which is absurd. Us black people need to focus on black on black crime which is way more prevalent than x on black crime, then we can have a conversation. But as it is? Go to any major city and you see this OR worse, daily.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Sorry if I sound insensitive, but I really couldn't care less. People die every day, people are murdered every day, and this is not news to me. This shouldn't have been a huge national story. The only reason why it was is because it was a black kid, and a guy with a white sounding name. That's it. How many gang members are killed in Los Angeles every year? How many of them are under 18? How many are shot by latinos? This is not a news story.
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Yeah, no. It's much more layered than that. The fact that he was an "independent vigilante" type. The fact that he made comments to the police about "those people" and "punks." The fact that he was a grown ass man, trained in MMA, and had to shoot a skinny 17 year old.

Those things stir up questions about race, community relationships, and 2nd amendment rights.
 
hoojacks said:
Yeah, no. It's much more layered than that. The fact that he was an "independent vigilante" type. The fact that he made comments to the police about "those people" and "punks." The fact that he was a grown ass man, trained in MMA, and had to shoot a skinny 17 year old.

Those things stir up questions about race, community relationships, and 2nd amendment rights.
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Okay, so why don't we look closer at why Latinos and black people don't get along? Because if we want to start looking at race, that's where you need to start.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Okay, so why don't we look closer at why Latinos and black people don't get along? Because if we want to start looking at race, that's where you need to start.
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Why can't we as a forum or we as a nation? Honestly, it's the same answer: because 90% of the people are 8 years old emotionally and will just devolve into race-based bickering. We might as well be the United States of PapaG. There's PLENTY of research about this kind of stuff. I'm just saying it's more complicated than you're making it out to be. This wasn't gang violence.
 
hoojacks said:
Yeah, no. It's much more layered than that. The fact that he was an "independent vigilante" type. The fact that he made comments to the police about "those people" and "punks." The fact that he was a grown ass man, trained in MMA, and had to shoot a skinny 17 year old.

Those things stir up questions about race, community relationships, and 2nd amendment rights.
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I'd love more discussion on things of this nature, and it's something I've done in the past both in public and in private.

And yet, I haven't seen any questions on this thread or in my facebook thread about community relationships, 2nd amendment rights, benefits (or not) of neighborhood watch programs, etc. Instead, friends are saying "I guess you can't be a black man in FL"..."Here come race riots"..."MLK's dream is dead"...

Nothing about the content of these two mens' character. Just talk about their friggin' skin color.

WTH?
 
BrianFromWA said:
I'd love more discussion on things of this nature, and it's something I've done in the past both in public and in private.

And yet, I haven't seen any questions on this thread or in my facebook thread about community relationships, 2nd amendment rights, benefits (or not) of neighborhood watch programs, etc. Instead, friends are saying "I guess you can't be a black man in FL"..."Here come race riots"..."MLK's dream is dead"...

Nothing about the content of these two mens' character. Just talk about their friggin' skin color.

WTH?
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I agree. I can see how people would focus on race, because that's the most salient factor here. But to me, what happened says much more about how we view one another, how we view community and how we view concepts like self defense and justice.
 
hoojacks said:
Why can't we as a forum or we as a nation? Honestly, it's the same answer: because 90% of the people are 8 years old emotionally and will just devolve into race-based bickering. We might as well be the United States of PapaG. There's PLENTY of research about this kind of stuff. I'm just saying it's more complicated than you're making it out to be. This wasn't gang violence.
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Obama made this a racial issue. Don't blame me for it. It's the only reason this became a national case. I just laugh at all the white folk on this board who are so upset about a simple act of self-defense, to the point they even lie about "facts" that were never said by the defendant.

[video=youtube;_KQc_L0MCds]
 
If I'm 8 years-old emotionally, then Obama is 6 years-old. The President had no reason to interject himself into a local case like this, and to play the race card while doing so.
 
PapaG has the personality of someone that would be a part of the Westboro Baptist Church.

A middle-aged man filled with irrational hatred that gets his rocks off using hate speech. At least the West Baptist Church doesn't hide behind a computer screen.

Absolutely embarrassing display in this thread.
 
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod

PapaG said:
How do you not understand that the prosecution didn't even bring that up in court?
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How do you keep saying the same thing over and over again and not realize nobody cares? A court of law in America is all knowing and perfect all of a sudden?

Personally, I do not give a fuck what the prosecution did or did not bring up in court.

Do you think this is a TV show or something?

This is a simple case when you have basic human morals.

Why you bring race up so much when you say you're not racist is beyond me.

Oh and the media called Zimmerman a half white hispanic because HE'S A FUCKING HALF WHITE HISPANIC.
 
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod

VanillaGorilla said:
Oh and the media called Zimmerman a half white hispanic because HE'S A FUCKING HALF WHITE HISPANIC.
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I've yet to hear NBC News refer to the President as the "First half-white President". I've never heard CBS's golf coverage trumpet Tiger Woods' accomplishments as "the first half-Vietnamese golfer" to win the Masters. Why is this the time to bring up racial exactitude?
 
I find it interesting that this case is so polarizing. You read comments on the verdict and people are so passionate about it with different conclusions. I was quick to judge on the case, but frankly things became more confusing and I didn't feel the need to invest a bunch of time following it. For those that were following the trial, how was Zimmerman's attorneys able to present a self defense argument without having Zimmerman testify? I surmise the statement to police came in. I wonder if the prosecution would have wanted to try to convict without admitting the statement to essentially force Zimmerman to testify.
 
I would submit that the race card is more aptly misused as "Everyone who doesn't look like you hates you"
 
PapaG said:
Obama made this a racial issue. Don't blame me for it. It's the only reason this became a national case. I just laugh at all the white folk on this board who are so upset about a simple act of self-defense, to the point they even lie about "facts" that were never said by the defendant.

[video=youtube;_KQc_L0MCds]
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Make no mistake, he made it a racial issue because he needed it politically. I've never seen a President so intentionally try to divide people. He just can't stop being a community organizer; he inflames then lets others clean up the mess.
 
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod

VanillaGorilla said:
How do you keep saying the same thing over and over again and not realize nobody cares? A court of law in America is all knowing and perfect all of a sudden?

Personally, I do not give a fuck what the prosecution did or did not bring up in court.

Do you think this is a TV show or something?

This is a simple case when you have basic human morals.

Why you bring race up so much when you say you're not racist is beyond me.

Oh and the media called Zimmerman a half white hispanic because HE'S A FUCKING HALF WHITE HISPANIC.
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How many times has ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times and The Washington Post refer to our President as "Barack Obama, a half white"?
 
Re: Zimmerman Case - Lightening Rod

BrianFromWA said:
I've yet to hear NBC News refer to the President as the "First half-white President". I've never heard CBS's golf coverage trumpet Tiger Woods' accomplishments as "the first half-Vietnamese golfer" to win the Masters. Why is this the time to bring up racial exactitude?
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That's because you're a dumbass. Obviously, Tiger Woods is half-Thai...duh. :cheers:
 
Zybot said:
I find it interesting that this case is so polarizing. You read comments on the verdict and people are so passionate about it with different conclusions. I was quick to judge on the case, but frankly things became more confusing and I didn't feel the need to invest a bunch of time following it. For those that were following the trial, how was Zimmerman's attorneys able to present a self defense argument without having Zimmerman testify? I surmise the statement to police came in. I wonder if the prosecution would have wanted to try to convict without admitting the statement to essentially force Zimmerman to testify.
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I want justice to be color blind. The initial police investigation I thought did a very good job of keeping race out of it. It's the politicians and the civil rights community that inserted race in the argument.

I'm not passionate about this case; I just find it a tragedy for all involved. I said there were no winners earlier, but I think I'm wrong. The media won huge in terms of ratings. Of course it was at the expense of their credibility, but they've long shown they don't care about that aspect.
 
PapaG said:
Obama made this a racial issue. Don't blame me for it. It's the only reason this became a national case.
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He did not. People were freaking out over a dude with a white sounding name shooting an unarmed black teenager as an act of community vigilantism long before Obama threw his political hat in the ring where it didn't belong. Maybe it's the only reason YOU heard about it, since you can't have Obama say a thing and not be belligerently against it.

I just laugh at all the white folk on this board who are so upset about a simple act of self-defense, to the point they even lie about "facts" that were never said by the defendant.
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Again, why does it matter that we're white? Do you have a reason for this or are you just trying to look like an idiot?

Again, it's obviously not a "simple" self defense. If it was, the case wouldn't be a national spectacle.

AGAIN, watch the fucking video at 33:20-33:45. HE SAYS HE WAS ON TOP OF HIM. Jesus.
 
Yeah. I'm not getting the Obama angle. I'm not a fan of the president, but I think he's been far less involved in issues of race than he should. That's a criticism.

I don't get the Fox News crowd being on Zimmerman's side from day 1. Ok, maybe I do. Appeal to Latino voters. But they're not into racial things. Oh no...
 
Denny Crane said:
Yeah. I'm not getting the Obama angle. I'm not a fan of the president, but I think he's been far less involved in issues of race than he should. That's a criticism.

I don't get the Fox News crowd being on Zimmerman's side from day 1. Ok, maybe I do. Appeal to Latino voters. But they're not into racial things. Oh no...
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If he hasn't used a gun, then Fox wouldn't touch it.
 
Oddly, Fox would normally advocate breaking up his family and deporting some of them.
 
maxiep said:
Make no mistake, he made it a racial issue because he needed it politically. I've never seen a President so intentionally try to divide people. He just can't stop being a community organizer; he inflames then lets others clean up the mess.
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yeah..he has fractured thius country alnog many lines, young vs old, poor vs wealthy, etc, race is a given...
 
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