11/6 Celtics @ Knicks Preview/Game Thread

[Ming637]

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@

Season Records

<font color="green">Celtics: 0-2</font> and <font color="blue">Knicks: 0-1</font>

Date: 11/6
Time: 7:30 pm eastern
TV: MSG and NBALP

Previous Game

Knicks: Loss against T-wolves 99-93
Celtics: Loss against Pacers 100-94


<u>Knicks</u>

<font size="1">(Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas, Nazr Mohammed)</font>

<u>Celtics</u>

<font size="1">(Gary Payton, Paul Pierce, Ricky Davis, Raef Lafrentz,Mark Blount)</font>

6th Men

(<font size="1">Mike Sweetney and Jiri Welsh) </font>

<u>Keys To Game</u>

Knicks

-Crawford needs to be productive.

-The Knicks need to attack the boards.

Celtics

-The Celtics need to prevent getting killed on the boards.

-4th Quarter play. Their first two games they had the lead in the fourth and lost it

Celtics Keys to the game have been provided by JBB Mod: BC


My Take

I think the Knicks will take this one away in their homecourt, 93-86.</div>

 

[jbbDavid]

Nice, Go Knicks and also, I hope Ariza gets some playing time in this one, and that moron TT sits.

 

[Mr. J]

Nice Preview. I was going to do the Knicks/Celtics one but for some strange reason I couldn't paste any pictures on. I think the Knicks are going to blowout the Celtics 81-99. We have to much excited players like Jamal Crawford, and Stephon Marbury that are eager to put on a show in MSG.

 

[Henacy]

If the Knicks frontline can be as productive as they were in the 1st game of the season. I think the Knicks will take this one at the garden. Kurt Thomas & Mike Sweetny did a solid job of carry the load wednesday in the frontcourt.

I expect Ariza to get some playing time tonight but probably not as much as in the game against the wolves. He played alot of minutes because Tim Thomas really struggled. I dont think you see Ariza get those type of minutes on a regular bases.

Marbury should be able to get the best of Payton, GP doesnt look much for his own shot anymore. And I think at this stage of their careers Marbury is to quick for Payton to consistently stay infront of him.

I dont know who the Knicks are going to throw on Paul Pierce, that use to be Shandon Anderson job. But with him out of the rotation the Knicks dont really have a good perimeter defender in the rotation, so he probably going to have fun lighting up Crawford and Tim Thomas.

I think we get to see the level of consistency in Jamal Crawford's game tonight. He had an excellent game on Wednesday, But during his Chi-town days this would be the type of night he would come out and try to force things even if he doesnt have it going. So it will be interesting to see if his jumpshot is on early does he force the action and put up a 3-16 type night or does he let the action come to him.

All & All I just think the Knicks have to give the effort like they gave vs Minny, they really played up to the level of their competion. They made a few mistakes here & there which is going to happen. But their shot selection was smart for the most part. And they really work on the backboards. I think they out rebounding Minny if Iam correct or at least tied the wolves on the backboards, despite giving up 20 rebounds to kg. Thats pretty much what they need to do tonight. And they should get the W.

 

[Beat]

I can see the knicks comming away with this one but i think it will be close 89-84

 

[Mr. J]

Whoa! It doesn't look pretty at the half. The Knicks are down by 19 55-36! I still think theyre going to win. Expect a big Knick rally. If they can pull out a nice win after trailing it will be a kind of good way to kick off the season.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

Well...I am stunned to say the least. This game isnt pretty. Definetely not for Knick fans who are faint of heart. We are getting blasted. If the Knicks rally from this...it will be....no words to describe it. I'm hoping we can pull off big rally...but I dont see it happening. The Knicks are being sloppy and not very aggressive. I still cant believe what I'm seeing. The Knicks are getting crushed in their home opener at MSG by the Boston Celtics.

 

[Mr. J]

What a horrible performance. They played with no effort whatsover. What a way to kick off the home opener. The defensive intensity wasn't there at all. Sweetney was the only bright spot this horrendous game. One of the things that I hated the most about them is their lack of consistantsy. One day they will have a great game the other day it will be horrible. By the way last year when we brought in Marbury in his 1st home game we got killed by the Rockets. Now with Crawford and JYD at the home opener we got killed by the Celtics. Is this a jynx?

 

[Ming637]

I can see Ariza starting over TT in SF sport for the next game. Tonight's performance was just pathetic.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ming637:</div><div class="quote_post">I can see Ariza starting over TT in SF sport for the next game. Tonight's performance was just pathetic.</div>

Trevor is probably better as a spark off the bench than he is starting. The Knicks can really use him when they need some D or some quick fastbreak points. Also It was pathetic for all the Knicks not just TT. I did hate the way he jacked up that airball at the end of the 2nd quarter.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

As you may be able to guess, I'm fuming with anger right now.
Tommorow, I will write my very sad recap.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">As you may be able to guess, I'm fuming with anger right now.
Tommorow, I will write my very sad recap.

</div>

I bet you are. I figured you were banging your head against some wall during halftime(I know I was). This has to be one of the worst if not the worst home opening performances in franchise history. It was simply embarassing. The guy who starts at small forward was just bad. Crawford didnt do much. Certainly didnt do what he was brought in to do. Just like Henacy(and myself a few weeks ago)said, Crawford everytime he's had a good game he'll take a night off and that's exactly what happened. Marbury was simply sloppy and when your point guard is sloppy well chances are the whole team will be careless. We played laughably weak defense. I mean it was so bad I'm laughing about it right now. I know we dont have a shot blocker but give me a break they were just getting into the paint and scoring at will. Paul Pierce MURDERED us. Sweetney did well when he kept getting fed in the low post which is the only good thing that came out of this game, him and Ariza to a lesser extent. The guy who starts at small forward for us should not be starting for us. It is time that he is benched. Shandon Anderson at least plays tough defense. Tim Thomas is just...dont even want to deal with him right now. Why doesnt Lenny Wilkens just make it official and have Kurt Thomas start at center? Also put JYD in the rotation backing up a starting Sweetney and give Bruno Sundov some minutes(might as well considering how soft our center position is) to see what he can do. I dont know. They just need to think of something because the Knicks are not going to win 30 games playing like that let alone the Atlantic division.

 

[Beat]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">I bet you are. I figured you were banging your head against some wall during halftime(I know I was). This has to be one of the worst if not the worst home opening performances in franchise history. It was simply embarassing. The guy who starts at small forward was just bad. Crawford didnt do much. Certainly didnt do what he was brought in to do. Just like Henacy(and myself a few weeks ago)said, Crawford everytime he's had a good game he'll take a night off and that's exactly what happened. Marbury was simply sloppy and when your point guard is sloppy well chances are the whole team will be careless. We played laughably weak defense. I mean it was so bad I'm laughing about it right now. I know we dont have a shot blocker but give me a break they were just getting into the paint and scoring at will. Paul Pierce MURDERED us. Sweetney did well when he kept getting fed in the low post which is the only good thing that came out of this game, him and Ariza to a lesser extent. The guy who starts at small forward for us should not be starting for us. It is time that he is benched. Shandon Anderson at least plays tough defense. Tim Thomas is just...dont even want to deal with him right now. Why doesnt Lenny Wilkens just make it official and have Kurt Thomas start at center? Also put JYD in the rotation backing up a starting Sweetney and give Bruno Sundov some minutes(might as well considering how soft our center position is) to see what he can do. I dont know. They just need to think of something because the Knicks are not going to win 30 games playing like that let alone the Atlantic division.</div>

Yeah i gotta agree with u thomas and nazi suck and needs to be benched.

 

[Mr. J]

I think one of our main problems is our center position as well. Since Ewing left we never filled that hole. We desperately need a defensive big man that can score in the low post, someone that can draw doubles. Sweetney is good but we need somebodu right now! Nene was availible but he's injured indefinitely. I wonder what Isaiah Thomas is going to do about this loss. Allan Houston really wouldhave helped us too.

 

[Ming637]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I think one of our main problems is our center position as well. Since Ewing left we never filled that hole. We desperately need a defensive big man that can score in the low post, someone that can draw doubles. Sweetney is good but we need somebodu right now! Nene was availible but he's injured indefinitely. I wonder what Isaiah Thomas is going to do about this loss. Allan Houston really wouldhave helped us too.</div>


I think Isiah Thomas will trade Tim Thomas because he isn't contributing or trying as hard as Trevor Ariza and Mike Sweetney.

 

[BC]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ming637:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Isiah Thomas will trade Tim Thomas because he isn't contributing or trying as hard as Trevor Ariza and Mike Sweetney.</div>
But who would take him? I don't think anyone will be willing to take on that contract.

 

[Henacy]

It was easy to tell that PP was going to bash the Knicks last night, soon as he seen Tim Thomas on him. He knew that Thomas couldnt stay infront of him off the dribble. And once a player knows he can get to the hoop anytime he wants its over for you as a defender. PP had that look of aggressiveness in his eyes against Tim Thomas Defense right from the opening tip. Iam not gonna Bash Tim Thomas to much, I watched him at Villinova, & Philly & with the Bucks. And he is a subpar as far as not reaching his highest potential in this league. But I also think the Knicks arent using him exactly the best way he should be used either. Tim Thomas needs the ball in his hands more for his style of play. And I dont think he is ever going to get that playing alongside Jamal Crawford and Steph. I think somebody in the Knicks front office has to convience Tim Thomas, that its best for him to come off the bench because it truely is...with the 2nd unit Tim Thomas would get to play more with the basketball in his hands.

But the problem for the Knicks is who do you start at the 3, see like you guys I know Trevor Ariza is going to be a great player. But unlike you guys I dont think he is ready to be a starter in this league, yet. I think Starting will expose alot off his weakness that are hidden by the fact he comes off the bench. I think teams will scout him alot more and play on those possible weakness. So Think the decision to developement slowly off the bench is a good one. So the Knicks dont really have anyone to plug in at the 3 spot if TT goes to the bench. You have candidates like Penny, Jerome Williams, or I guess Shandon Anderson. But I think Penny's veteran experience is best used off the bench and he isnt really a three in this league despite playing it last year. Jerome Williams could be an option because he will give you a dirty work defensive player to go along with all that flash in the backcourt. But you lose perimeter shooting which you need along side steph when he penetrates. And Jerome Williams isnt an everyday 3 man either. And Shandon Anderson's poor shooting and despect toward Zeke, finds himself not really apart of the team concept right now. So its all most like Tim Thomas is stuck in the starting lineup cause like I said starting Ariza right now would be like throwing him in the fire. You like the pace Ariza is developing at. And I dont think you do anything to alter that pace of development.

 

[Mr. J]

I agree. Ariza is not ready to start. He is a high energy guy with defense but he is not ready. Ariza is also not as good as Tim Thomas. Ariza's jumpshot his not too good. He is also just a rookie. Ariza has all the talent to be better than Tim Thomas but he isn't right now. The Knicks just played two games. And already Tim Thomas is being bashed. Other Knicks had bad games too, let's not forget that. Tim Thomas is still very valuable to us.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> Tim Thomas is still very valuable to us.</div>
Just wait till I write that article.

 

[Mr. J]

Wow! I didn't know you hated Tim that much. 1+1=4? You really must dislike him the way you clowned him like that.

 

[jbbPrimetime]

There is really no point in mentioning how bad that game was, everyone else has said enough for me to add anything new.
In regards to the starting SF position, for those who think Trevor Ariza should start, I think Penny Hardaway should start as the SF before Trevor Ariza does.
With guys like Jamal Crawford and Stephon Marbury I think Penny can really help balance the offense, rather than a rookie who wouldn't quite know what to do.

But nonetheless an awful game, and as much as I would like to say the New York Knicks will bounce back against the Philadelphia 76ers, I am really not sure, because I said they would against Boston Celtics, so .... I really am not sure.

It is vital for the New York Knicks to win all these home games, especially games against a team which they should beat, and a game they really should have won, because the New York Knicks have a tough schedule for November and they need all the wins they can get!
This performance was awful. Enough said.

 

[Ming637]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow! I didn't know you hated Tim that much. 1+1=4? You really must dislike him the way you clowned him like that.</div>

A lot of Knicks fans hate him and I personally love that sig, lol.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

Thanks, Ming637.

 

[02civic]

knicks just dont have any heart....they got killed.
Everyone's been saying that the Raptors are gunna finish last and the Knicks first in this division...but i just dont get it.

 

[jenike]

You know this seems all too familiar. A team rallies to finish strong last season, then the next season starts and there is no effort, no defense, nothing.....

Sound like the Raps second year of Lenny Wilkens. All I can say is that the Knicks better be able to motivate and coach themselves, because Lenny definitly won't do it! Good Luck as long as Lenny is at the helm. Take it from a Raps fan who has gone through it already. It's taken the Raps two years to break the habits Lenny brought to the club. Hope you guys figure it out sooner than we did.

 

[Mr. J]

What I just don't get is why just about everyone in JBB is making predictions so soon. No NBA team has played 5 games yet and already people are talking about division champs, rookie of the year, who should be benched because they had a couple of bad games. Everyone pretty much just needs to calm down. Last year the Kings, and T'Wolves, and Heat got off to bad starts and where did they end up. The Sonics were the only undefeated team for a little while where did they end up. Before people start drawing soon to be proven wrong conclusions wait alittle bit.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

mrj18 is absolutely right. I disagree with him 80% of the time, but now he's right. It is too early to make predictions. The time between the first game and the 15th is a time for a quick view as to what you'll be seeing the rest of the season. And from then one can "draw conclusions."
However, some things evident early on, such as Toronto's success is something one can analyze to deduce that their play early on should continue.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">mrj18 is absolutely right. I disagree with him 80% of the time, but now he's right. It is too early to make predictions. The time between the first game and the 15th is a time for a quick view as to what you'll be seeing the rest of the season. And from then one can "draw conclusions."
However, some things evident early on, such as Toronto's success is something one can analyze to deduce that their play early on should continue.</div>

Thanks Knicks Analyst, atleast we can agree on something 20% of the time.