1st Debate! Trump vs Clinton

[Chris Craig]

Look some of us are Trump supporters , some Clinton supporters, some neither, and we aren't going to agree with one another on much, but I certainly hope the next debate is an actual debate and not a pissing contest.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Look some of us are Trump supporters , some Clinton supporters, some neither, and we aren't going to agree with one another on much, but I certainly hope the next debate is an actual debate and not a pissing contest.

There is a bar in New Orleans that has a coin operated pissing contest in the men's room. I totally won.

 

[Chris Craig]

There is a bar in New Orleans that has a coin operated pissing contest in the men's room. I totally won.

No shit

 

[barfo]

Also, this assertion that Trump hasn't paid some Architect in the audience for his clubhouse work is nonsense. There was no facts given, just a unfounded claim. Perhaps Trump has a lawsuit against the business? It's unknown and that claim was dubious at best.

Here you go.



barfo

 

[e_blazer]

Here's a meme posted by Hillary following last night's debate:

Just a couple of comments to those who agree with this sentiment:

1. How many of you refuse to take legally allowed deductions on your federal tax return in order to be more "helpful" to other taxpayers who may be less fortunate than you?

2. If you disagree with the tax loopholes, it seems to me that the Clintons have been around DC for around 25 years and in positions where they might have done something about closing those loopholes.

I'm no Trump supporter, but as a businessman his main responsibility to his company is to see that it makes money and avoids paying taxes that aren't required.

 

[blue32]

Here you go.



barfo

I stopped at 2:17, because this guy is a complete buffoon.

So let's see; where were the contracts for the BOM, any sort of contract in regards to getting payment during work, or before work to start the initial material purchase. This to me is bad business sense on this guys firm, and no wonder he's screwed, he screwed himself over. He could have taken the organization to court with signed contracts or any other sort of obligation signed by Trump, but did not because he was 'scared' of litigation.

Pfffft.

 

[Chris Craig]

So let me get this straight. You wouldn't use a tax law to avoid paying money at the end of the year? I call bullshit on that. EVERYONE tries to get back as much money as they can, or avoid paying personal income tax whenever possible.

This notion that Hillary put forth that the country couldn't have nice roads, bridges, etc because Trump personally (may or may not; unknown ATM) paid income tax was a complete sham.

IF he hasn't paid income tax its likely because he has taken losses in other avenues of his business life. That works out for many business owners around the country.

Also, this assertion that Trump hasn't paid some Architect in the audience for his clubhouse work is nonsense. There was no facts given, just a unfounded claim. Perhaps Trump has a lawsuit against the business? It's unknown and that claim was dubious at best.

Trump hasn't paid a lot of people. He is a horrid contentious businessman who wants nothing more than to step on little people like you and me, like cockroaches. And you want defend his lies along side him, go ahead

 

[riverman]

What kind of tv do you have as apparently it has some bizarro-world filter that reverses reality?

you're support of Trump and his narcissistic blowhard short fused Machiavelian ranting is baffling....you want reality and Trump is your posterboy....well, if that's not a bizarre reality then I'm assuming you haven't watched the debate....he answered nothing..not one fucking question and was completely clueless as to what is required to be a world leader.....fuck Donald Trump and all TVs in general....I'm more of a newspaper reader than a TV guy but my wife and I watched the debates last night and it was a no contest......any vote for Trump is a vote for chaotic dysfunction and isolation.....good luck with that

 

[blue32]

Trump hasn't paid a lot of people. He is a horrid contentious businessman who wants nothing more than to step on little people like you and me, like cockroaches. And you want defend his lies along side him, go ahead

So, what does this have to do with the conversation we were having about taxes and tax returns?

To me, it sounds like he is a cutthroat savvy business man that has made his organization rich, which undoubtedly has helped many of his employees.

Edit:

The fact is business is business and its not all "peaches and cream". This fantasy world that people live in where we think businesses actually care about other people is a fallacy. Business is out there to make money regardless, it's how this country works. It sounds like you're just an anti-corporation guy across the board. Which is fine, but unfortunately its never going to change. America was formed by capitalism.

Edit 2: In regards to Trump; I actually want him to be a savvy cutthroat businessman president for the USA. We need to start making our country stronger and more robust, which will then trickle down into improving internally.

 

[e_blazer]

Here you go.



barfo

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbest...oesnt-mean-they-cant-get-coffee/#4bfe97506d9a

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Also, this assertion that Trump hasn't paid some Architect in the audience for his clubhouse work is nonsense. There was no facts given, just a unfounded claim. Perhaps Trump has a lawsuit against the business? It's unknown and that claim was dubious at best.

i think it was this guy. dude doesnt really have much room to talk though, if he accepted the shit offer in the first place. not sure how indicative this is of trumps business practices but it seems to be the general consensus.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbest...oesnt-mean-they-cant-get-coffee/#4fcde0906d9a

 

[3RA1N1AC]

day late and a dollar short!

 

[riverman]

Someone tell me what major specific points Hillary made to convince me, a lifelong Democrat, that she will change my life for the better.

Even when she lies about what she'll do it's something for someone other than me and mine, but I'm baffled why anyone is still iin her camp.

Somebody Clintonsplain it for me.

She has done her homework Maris...she is prepared....go to her website and it's all clear what she plans...Trump won't tell you because he simply doesn't have any plans except to piss off the world and make the cost of doing business for the ultra rich, more profitable......All that said, I'm voting Gary Johnson for my own view of how govt should change. Trump won't change anything that'll help you unless you're a billionaire and if that's the case....congrats

 

[blue32]

i think it was this guy. dude doesnt really have much room to talk though, if he accepted the shit offer in the first place. not sure how indicative this is of trumps business practices but it seems to be the general consensus.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbest...oesnt-mean-they-cant-get-coffee/#4fcde0906d9a

If it was this guy. He was paid a considerable amount of money aside from a remaining balance of 140K, which he ended up settling for 25K.

I can only hope he could have went to court for less than that difference....

 

[Chris Craig]

So, what does this have to do with the conversation we were having about taxes and tax returns?

To me, it sounds like he is a cutthroat savvy business man that has made his organization rich, which undoubtedly has helped many of his employees.

Edit:

The fact is business is business and its not all "peaches and cream". This fantasy world that people live in where we think businesses actually care about other people is a fallacy. Business is out there to make money regardless, it's how this country works. It sounds like you're just an anti-corporation guy across the board. Which is fine, but unfortunately its never going to change. America was formed by capitalism.

If the taxes for the top 1% are cut 20%, whose taxes do you thing are going to go up to make up for it. Trump talks about inner city this and inner city that. Well, inner cities have gotten that way because of people like Trump who don't pay their taxes and have their goods made in China or wherever. He doesn't give a damn about inner city folk, he cares that they don't vandalize and destroy his business and investments during protests, he doesn't give a damn about why they are protesting.

I'm sure many of his employees are not benefiting but bring wiped from the bottom of his shoes. The mindset that it's not going to change is what's so fucked about this country and this world. There is too much talk and not enough action. Capitalism was supposed to be a fair system to allow shared oppurtunity for all Americans. It has been horribly abused and has become something all together different then it was meant to be. The founding fathers would shit their fucking pants.

 

[blue32]

If the taxes for the top 1% are cut 20%, whose taxes do you thing are going to go up to make up for it. Trump talks about inner city this and inner city that. Well, inner cities have gotten that way because of people like Trump who don't pay their taxes and have their goods made in China or wherever. He doesn't give a damn about inner city folk, he cares that they don't vandalize and destroy his business and investments during protests, he doesn't give a damn about why they are protesting.

I'm sure many of his employees are not benefiting but bring wiped from the bottom of his shoes. The mindset that it's not going to change is what's so fucked about this country and this world. There is too much talk and not enough action. Capitalism was supposed to be a fair system to allow shared oppurtunity for all Americans. It has been horribly abused and has become something all together different then it was meant to be. The founding fathers would shit their fucking pants.

So you're into socialism then? You want to tax successful Americans? Basically penalize success, penalize the American dream because some people can't make themselves better?

I'm sorry but Trumps tax returns will do nothing for the economy; and him not paying (If he hasn't, you dont even know if that's true), is only like that because of the laws that people like Hillary have put into place years and years ahead of him.

You sit there and complain about business, but its the Government that has allowed the majority of these problems. Clinton's are the status quo, the same old tired shit as the Bush's, etc.

I mean the top half of the Taxpayers pay 97.2 % of all taxes. What MORE do you want from these people? What type of "fair system" are you advocating here?

 

[riverman]

It's not democratic to exclude all the presidential candidates from the debates....Johnson and Stein and the others should have had equal time and nat'l exposure....instead we still get stuck with the political divorce quibbling of the Dems and Republicans...Congress and the Senate have been a stalemate for a long time and our taxes are used watching them do nothing but argue and try to discredit the other party for the next election...one party is hell bent on making the opposition party president look bad for every year in office up to the next election.....our govt is not governing but practicing an endless election campaign....you want change.....don't vote for the two party dynasty

 

[Chris Craig]

She has done her homework Maris...she is prepared....go to her website and it's all clear what she plans...Trump won't tell you because he simply doesn't have any plans except to piss off the world and make the cost of doing business for the ultra rich, more profitable......All that said, I'm voting Gary Johnson for my own view of how govt should change. Trump won't change anything that'll help you unless you're a billionaire and if that's the case....congrats

I've been looking at this election as who is the better fit between Hillary and Trump because they are the two major parties, and a third party has never gotten close to winning. But, to tell you the truth Johnson may very well be the best candidate of the three. I have thought about voting for him. I still might. I know the system is messed up and it's going to be one of Clinton and Trump, and as much as Hillary has erred, Trump in my eyes has done far worse, will do far worse should he win. Neither are angels, hell far from it. But Christ, Trump cannot be elected our president.

 

[riverman]

So you're into socialism then? You want to tax successful Americans? Basically penalize success, penalize the American dream because some people can't make themselves better?

I'm sorry but Trumps tax returns will do nothing for the economy; and him not paying (If he hasn't, you dont even know if that's true), is only like that because of the laws that people like Hillary have put into place years and years ahead of him.

You sit there and complain about business, but its the Government that has allowed the majority of these problems.

I mean the top half of the Taxpayers pay 97.2 % of all taxes. What MORE do you want from these people? What type of "fair system" are you advocating here?

taxing the wealthy a little more is not penalizing them.....it's putting more money in the consumers pocket to spend.....taxing the income of a young couple raising children and paying rent is not making America stronger......the middle class needs to be rejuvenated and soon

 

[blue32]

taxing the wealthy a little more is not penalizing them.....it's putting more money in the consumers pocket to spend.....taxing the income of a young couple raising children and paying rent is not making America stronger......the middle class needs to be rejuvenated and soon

Making successful people pay an exorbitant amount of tax is ridiculous. You certainly are penalizing people who succeed. There is no incentive to make money if Hillary's plan comes into fruition.

What happens when their money runs out? The country and the consumer is then screwed. Because you were riding on the coat tails of the "wealthy"; that is a messed up premise.

For the record, I hate taxes in general. I vote no for every single tax I come across. I don't care who you are, I don't want you to be taxed more.

 

[e_blazer]

i think it was this guy. dude doesnt really have much room to talk though, if he accepted the shit offer in the first place. not sure how indicative this is of trumps business practices but it seems to be the general consensus.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbest...oesnt-mean-they-cant-get-coffee/#4fcde0906d9a

I've been a consultant dealing with real estate developers for 35 years. This architect made some very bad business decisions in dealing with Trump. First, before taking on a client like Trump, you'd want to check around with other architects who have worked for him. That probably would have indicated that you don't want the job unless you're accepting that you're going to be working with a shark. He should have demanded a retainer that would have been applied to the last invoice. How did the bill get up to $140K? He should have billed more regularly so that he couldn't get stiffed for such a large amount.

Trump is an ass and he no doubt takes advantage of the little guys who work for him. I wouldn't vote for him if he was the only guy on the ballot. That said, this architect was in way over his head and much of the fault is due to his own business practices.

 

[Chris Craig]

So you're into socialism then? You want to tax su

Making successful people pay an exorbitant amount of tax is ridiculous. You certainly are penalizing people who succeed. There is no incentive to make money if Hillary's plan comes into fruition.

What happens when their money runs out? The country and the consumer is then screwed. Because you were riding on the

So you're into socialism then? You want to tax successful Americans? Basically penalize success, penalize the American dream because some people can't make themselves better?

I'm sorry but Trumps tax returns will do nothing for the economy; and him not paying (If he hasn't, you dont even know if that's true), is only like that because of the laws that people like Hillary have put into place years and years ahead of him.

You sit there and complain about business, but its the Government that has allowed the majority of these problems. Clinton's are the status quo, the same old tired shit as the Bush's, etc.

I mean the top half of the Taxpayers pay 97.2 % of all taxes. What MORE do you want from these people? What type of "fair system" are you advocating here?

No I'm into a country where everyone has a fair chance. You alluded yourself to the fact that capitalism has become a one-sided system, that is not all "peaches and cream" and that you are stuck in this notion that it's never going to change. That is what is wrong with this country. Most everyone has been brainwashed to believe and accept that idea. It's a bunch of bullshit.

Either way between Clinton and Trump it's status quo. At least with Clinton there is a chance things will get better, with Trump will come the apocalypse.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I'm not voting for either of them but how the fuck can anyone with a brain think Trump won the debate last night? I guess if you want a blabbering idiot as your president it makes sense..

 

[oldfisherman]

I believe the time has come here on Rip City 2 to have a debate about whether we should be debating the debate over who won the debate.

 

[Chris Craig]

I've been a consultant dealing with real estate developers for 35 years. This architect made some very bad business decisions in dealing with Trump. First, before taking on a client like Trump, you'd want to check around with other architects who have worked for him. That probably would have indicated that you don't want the job unless you're accepting that you're going to be working with a shark. He should have demanded a retainer that would have been applied to the last invoice. How did the bill get up to $140K? He should have billed more regularly so that he couldn't get stiffed for such a large amount.

Trump is an ass and he no doubt takes advantage of the little guys who work for him. I wouldn't vote for him if he was the only guy on the ballot. That said, this architect was in way over his head and much of the fault is due to his own business practices.

Even so, this architect being naive and getting duped, doesn't excuse Donald Trump

 

[Chris Craig]

Making successful people pay an exorbitant amount of tax is ridiculous. You certainly are penalizing people who succeed. There is no incentive to make money if Hillary's plan comes into fruition.

What happens when their money runs out? The country and the consumer is then screwed. Because you were riding on the coat tails of the "wealthy"; that is a messed up premise.

For the record, I hate taxes in general. I vote no for every single tax I come across. I don't care who you are, I don't want you to be taxed more.

They aren't paying an exorbitant amount. They are paying a percentage based on what they make. The more you make, the more you pay.

Do you own a large company? Are you a CEO? You must not be a worker bee just like the rest of us. Because if you are your notions make no sense

 

[blue32]

No I'm into a country where everyone has a fair chance. You alluded yourself to the fact that capitalism has become a one-sided system, that is not all "peaches and cream" and that you are stuck in this notion that it's never going to change. That is what is wrong with this country. Most everyone has been brainwashed to believe and accept that idea. It's a bunch of bullshit.

Either way between Clinton and Trump it's status quo. At least with Clinton there is a chance things will get better, with Trump will come the apocalypse.

To me everyone with a brain DOES have a fair chance. You just have to be smart.

Fair chance doesn't mean raising taxes on a certain group of people. Trump wants to lower taxes on a lot of wage earners and businesses to drive business back into America. It's pretty obvious when you look at the details of his tax agenda. What incentives do corporations have to do business here when they can go elsewhere with their workforce and pay less? Hillary will keep that aspect going, while Trump wants to fix it. I really think you should read more into what he proposes.

 

[Chris Craig]

I believe the time has come here on Rip City 2 to have a debate about whether we should be debating the debate over who won the debate.

At least we are having an actual debate

 

[blue32]

They aren't paying an exorbitant amount. They are paying a percentage based on what they make. The more you make, the more you pay.

Do you own a large company? Are you a CEO? You must not be a worker bee just like the rest of us. Because if you are your notions make no sense

She wants to raise taxes on those people. That was my point. They indeed will be paying far more than they should. The top half already pay a ton of money into this system. 97.2% to be exact.

I do well for myself and I'll let you know I pay a fuck ton of tax, just so snot nosed brats can have leaded water at their shitty schools.

 

[Chris Craig]

To me everyone with a brain DOES have a fair chance. You just have to be smart.

Fair chance doesn't mean raising taxes on a certain group of people. Trump wants to lower taxes on a lot of wage earners and businesses to drive business back into America. It's pretty obvious when you look at the details of his tax agenda. What incentives do corporations have to do business here when they can go elsewhere with their workforce and pay less? Hillary will keep that aspect going, while Trump wants to fix it. I really think you should read more into what he proposes.

No the answer isn't to give them further breaks, it's to make them follow the rules