Zombie 2012 NBA Draft (2 Viewers)

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dont use satanic math to vanquish the insatiable me monster
 
Seth Sommerfeld ‏@sethsommerfeld
I'll be talking Blazers draft possibilities for @NBADraftnet on ESPN @1080TheFAN in Portland (simulcast on Comcast SportsNet NW) at 5:17 PST
 
Mediocre Man said:
That's what I said
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except we dont need to renounce freeland and claver

its cool man, in order to resign felton, his cap hold is $55, and if your draft pick is considered elite, you get an extra 7 million dollar lump sum cap hold, which you can trade for double the trade exception of your second round early bird
 
Freeing up max amount of cap room you have to have a plan.

Who is the 'plan' -- Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Goran Dragic?
 
3RA1N1AC said:
except we dont need to renounce freeland and claver

its cool man, in order to resign felton, his cap hold is $55, and if your draft pick is considered elite, you get an extra 7 million dollar lump sum cap hold, which you can trade for double the trade exception of your second round early bird
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That's what I said. It's either Freeland or Claver, or stretch Williams
 
John Hunt ‏@JHuntweet
Jared Cunningham makes Chad Ford's "next five in'' for his latest NBA draft mock first round (and Lillard to Blazers at No. 6).
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Freeing up max amount of cap room you have to have a plan.

Who is the 'plan' -- Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Goran Dragic?
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3 restricted FAs, with no guarantee of getting any of them unless the Blazers completely overpay for them.
 
Boise Blazer said:
I sat there yesterday wondering, can you guys think of anyone from the last few years that really stood out in the combine and then turned out to be a bad pick? Im sure there are examples out there but I would like to compare them to Lillard. He seemed to do really well and just about everyone at the combined seemed to like him. What other players recently were like this but still turned out a bad pick?
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I can't. The guys off the top of my head that really elevated their stock after the combine are David Lee, Russell Westbrook and Iman Shumpert. All have been solid picks.
 
MickZagger said:
I don't remember it that way. Alexander was being talked about as a lottery pick before the combine.
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He just asked someone who stood out there and turned out to be a bad pick. Not necessarily someone who came out of nowhere because of it. I took it more to be that the combine "winners" are generally safe picks, and he was wondering if there were ones who were not.
 
A blog on Blazers.com lobbying for Lillard is about as obvious as a smokescreen gets.
 
Blaze01 said:
It's my opinion, I am entitled to state it, and I have given numerous, specific & justifiable reasons as to why I came to that opinion, and I will again since they keep being glossed over.



He was back end of the lottery and a lot of the slotting right now on mock drafts is based on percieved team needs and not whom teams ACTUALLY like...and the fact that he has some measureables that resemble Rose, CLEARLY is worthless isn't it? b\c history has certainly shown us that basketball at the NBA level is more than just athletic combine numbers...otherwise Rose wouldn't be one of the best players in the NBA now would he? The fact is there are always players that teams rave about or vice versa and a lot of it is smokescreeen...and sometimes guys just look better in a workout setting than they actually are on the floor in a 5v5 setting (Hello Martell Webster!),...and I do believe that the lack of PG in POR adversly affects many fans' perspective on a player...Lillard doesn't have as many question marks to me as Leonard does or as critical of a one, but he DOES have some serious concerns that I am baffled how people can just wave away like they are no big deal...

Lillard...He has not performed well in games vs better teams, that should be concerning when reviewing a player from a smaller conference....He shoots the ball low and in front of him, look at how a guy like Waiters shoots the ball for instance, high above his head, a little lean back, that shot would be hard as hell to block in the NBA....low and in front of you? That will get blocked or more likely what will happen is that he will be chased off the shot and have to pull back and take an off balance shot...much tougher shot, far less success rate...and watch how he drives to the basket, a lot of little lay in type shots, you are not going to get that in the NBA...He shows athleticism but he doesn't appear to have explosion to the basket, he can do it when the path is open before him, but when a defender is there it is a lean to the side and an attempt to lay it in across the backboard...against inferior competition that can work, against top nothc size\athleticism in the NBA that will be blocked...Again, look how Waiters finishes...look how he absorbs body hits and continues onto the basket and throws it down...that is very impressive and reminiscent of what he will face, defensively in the NBA...I think Lillard is fool's gold...looks good when playing against sub par competition and in a gym when no one is guarding him...but in an NBA game, 5 on 5, I am prediciting he will strugggle, he will essentially be a jump shooter (and he isn't lights out there) and I don't see him as a go-to player type scorer at the end of games either (which this team DESPERATELY needs)...Maybe I am wrong, maybe he overcomes those short comings, but I would be highly surprised if he does...



Not sure what Cleaves was ranked coming out of HS, Teague was a top 5 HS recruit (I do think that matters, I did a rough analysis and the percentages were pretty compelling to me)....and his ahtleticism, speed and size compared to Cleeves are certainly factors....I think Teague is a better athlete than Lillard, a better PG in terms of passing\running a team...He is accustomed to playing against better competition and he performed well for a freshman...and I thought his play in the NCAA tourney when the competition\pressure is at its's greatest was very good...Those to me are very positive signs...and what I said was correct, he had a better assist\to ratio as a freshman than Lillard did ANY year he at Weber State....Lillard is a SG that once again, POR is trying to make into a PG, that experiment has failed several times now already...and even if you think Lillard is better, is he that much better to take at #6 than getting a guy like Teague and other assets in the mid 1st? I don't think so, bad use of your assets IMO...and either way, whomever they pick (if they do pick a PG) POR is going to have to bring in a vet...

Lastly to Leonard, I have mentioned it several times now and you keep skipping over it but he has a well known history of problems with mental toughness and self confidence...He gets down on himself a lot....I just don't know how ANYONE can ignore that...to me that is a MAJOR red flag...Look at Luke Babbitt, talk about a guy who struggles with confidence, and it is likely why he will be nothing more than a bench scrub\specialist in the NBA, b\c the shooting tools are there...and for a big man to have those issues? I would argue that lack of confidence is even more concerning...he is going to get pushed around, banged on, fouls called on him...a lot...and other players yapping in his ear to get into his head....You add that to the fact that athleticism aside, he is raw offensively and raw defensively....Heck his best shot is a little jump hook that he starts low and can be blocked quite easily...that isn't going to work in the NBA...So you are drafting a project that is very raw that struggles with confidence issues and whose best case otucome if he overcomes all that is Spencer Hawes? I view that as a reach....

and you mention Hawes as a comparison, whose play has improved after FIVE years in the NBA and on his 2nd team....and he didn't have confidence issues and had a better offensive game out of college than Leonard does....You really want to wait 5 years for Leonard and hope that he developes into that type of player?

You take Leonard at #11 then you are reaching, you are hoping he becomes a serviceable...middle of the road starter...you are hoping that he developes some kind of go to post move...you are hoping that he improves enough on defense that he can actually stay out on the court and not collect fouls like a magnet...and MOST importantly you are hoping that by some miracle? he suddenly overcomes all of his self confidence issues...and again history I think shows that players who suffer from that don't usually overcome it...Not in the NBA...



First of all, I don't think we really know where they rank with executives...saying a guy helped himself or he loked good at the combine is a LOT different from how you have him ranked on your draft board...and I don't think he has ANYWHERE near the athleticism or EXPLOSION of Russell Westbrook. Seriously? I don't know how anyone can see similarities from watching them play....It is that explosion that makes Westbrook so damm good...and his jumpshot has come along....I think that is reaching if you are comparing the 2...

Long enough? You want to debate those points fine, but I have given you MY reasons for why I don't particularly like either player...Not just a "They suck, STFU"...
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Dude, more is not better. Seriously.

As for your Lillard having a low shot, Paul Pierce and Ginobili have made great careers with low releases. I haven't heard that as a complaint in all the analysis of Lillard, except for by you. I percieve it as a non-issue.

Uhhhhh.....You know what nevermind. I was thinking about debating you point for point. But, its just not worth it. Because you ignored my previous arguments and are hashing out the same small conference non-sense and how Teague has better athletic numbers, when he doesn't.

It's kinda like how you conveniently ignored Lillard's great outing against St. Mary's (arguably the best team on the schedule) when you bring up his opponents.

You're hard to read and you don't debate a good point when its brought upon you, instead you ignore it and re-hash it later. Now I remember why I usually just skim past your posts.
 
Drummond--I'm still trying to figure him out. Check out these stats:

Soph in H.S. 20.2 PPG, 16.6 RPG, 7.2 BLK
Senior in H.S. 15 PPG, 11 RPG, 4 BLK* (played at a different school in a more competitive league?)
Freshman in College: 10 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 2.7 BLK

This is a little concerning. It looks like he had great early H.S. numbers, but as the competition got harder, he just faded.
 
MickZagger said:
I don't remember it that way. Alexander was being talked about as a lottery pick before the combine.
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http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/joe-alexander-1185/mock-draft-history/

DX's mock draft history on Alexander is actually really interesting. He wasn't even on their radar prior to March '08, and was projected as a late first into early May. Then he hopped into the late lottery in late May. Combine numbers came out June 3rd, and DX then correctly slotted him at 8th in their next mock on June 12th, 2 weeks before the draft.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/joe-alexander-1185/mock-draft-history/

DX's mock draft history on Alexander is actually really interesting. He wasn't even on their radar prior to March '08, and was projected as a late first into early May. Then he hopped into the late lottery in late May. Combine numbers came out June 3rd, and DX then correctly slotted him at 8th in their next mock on June 12th, 2 weeks before the draft.
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My memory is a little foggy, but I remember him playing really well in the Big East tournament and it raised his stock a lot. He was always so raw.
 
MickZagger said:
My memory is a little foggy, but I remember him playing really well in the Big East tournament and it raised his stock a lot. He was always so raw.
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I remember him being a late first-rounder, then he jumped somewhat with his tourney play.

But even then, he was still considered a later first-round pick, but analysts said he was a guy who could jump depending on his performance at the combine. Which is exactly what then happened.
 
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