Zombie 2012 NBA Draft (5 Viewers)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 6 (members: 0, guests: 6)
chadforinsider


Yes, Barnes tested better than MKG in every category. MKG was solid, but only dominated just 1 category: 3/4 court sprint.
Click to expand...
 
HCP said:
I know...... but I wish it wasn't true. When the Bucks drafted that guy Joe Alexander, I just cracked up. I knew he'd be out of the league in 2 years. I will admit I was totally wrong, as were many, about The Love Boat. He's been amazing.
Click to expand...

Kevin Love is dookie.
 
chadfordinsider


Andre Drummond showed off great lateral quickness, but max vert was only 33. Miles Plumlee beat him in every category.
Click to expand...
 
chadfordinsider


Bradley Beal put up very good numbers too. 39 inch max vert. Quick, fast and strong. Very good results.
Click to expand...
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Would you guys shit bricks if our draft ended up something like this:

#6 Harrison Barnes
#11 (or up) Meyers Leonard
Click to expand...

I see Meyers Leonard as - Dwayne Schintzius, Jim McIlvaine or Matt Geiger. Role player. Limited upside.
Harrison Barnes looks like - Walt Williams, Marcus Fizer or Martel Webster. Specialist. Needs the right system.

I'd be disappointed. But you gotta hope the Blazer scouts know what their doing. (I tried my best to say that with a straight face.)
 
chadfordinsider


Of the top players in the draft: Damian Lillard, Perry Jones, Moe Harkless, Arnett Moultrie, Jeff Taylor all tested very well ...
Click to expand...


Jared Sullinger was bad in virtually every category. Not unexpected, but still …
Click to expand...
 
Barnes no-step vert of 38" is what stood out to me.

If he rises (likely to Cleveland) that means either MKG or Drummond will fall to #6.
 
MickZagger said:
Dude, quit fucking acting like just because you don't like a certain player that he will suck. You aren't a GM. In fact, you have no credentials at all. So acting like your opinions are the end-all be-all is a pretty stupid thing to do.

There's a reason Lillard is the talk of the combines.
Click to expand...

and niether do you...

Just what the fuck do you expect either of those guys to be as pro's? I'd love to hear it...

Just b\c a kid is big and athletic doesn't mean he has the skill to excel in the NBA...and frankly ANY player who has confidence & mental tougness issues SHOULD be considered as a giant red flag....That shit isn't going to get better in the pro's...when he is picking up fouls left and right and vets are beating the shit out of him in the post and talking shit in his ear...You can't go crying to your coach or your teamates then....

Big, athletic center who looks likes Adonis but plays like a NBDL reject....Stop me if you have heard\seen this before, it happens practically EVERY draft....

and Lillard everyone's little golden boy whose stock has seemingly shot up after a COMBINE? Really? A player whose stock suddenly shoots up at the combine, haven't heard that before? Of course skip the fact that he played in a sub par conference and when he did play better teams he struggled\was not nearly the "efficient scorer" that he was against the likes of Eastern Washington...skip past the fact that he has a low release point on his jump shot or that he doesn't have the explosion or the body to withstand NBA level contact and finish in the paint...or that he is clearly more of a scoring guard than a PG, but don't worry he has assured us that he can play the PG position, you know like Nolan Smith....Sorry but if I am going to take a risk on a PG this year it is going to be for a guy like Teague who was a top 5 rated kid coming out of HS, who played on the best team in college and stepped up his game in the NCAA tourney when it mattered most, whose assist\to ratio as a FRESHMAN is better than Lillard's as a junior, who is quicker and a better playmaker than Lillard, has a better body is more athletic and more explosive scorer and who is used to playing with NBA level talent, and whom you won't have to take\reach for with a #6 pick to insure you get him...

You don't like my OPINIONS? Fine, whatever...But I am stating MY opinion based upon facts\research and observation....and wasting picks on medicore talented players with significant issues is a recipe for remaining a shitty team....

Better to strike out going for players with much higher upsides ( and w\o signifcant issues\concerns) than draft a couple bottom 1/2 of the league (if even that) starters, who won't help your team signifcantly improve at all...

If I am wrong, then so be it, I am sure some people here will love to call me out on it...but I tell you this, I won't feel like gloating if I am right and POR picked them....just extremely dissapointed...

Good point. Blaze is coming across as HIS opinions are straight gold and everybody else don't know shit!
Click to expand...

Can I help it if they are? :devilwink:
 
Last edited:
Blaze01 said:
and niether do you...

Just what the fuck do you expect either of those guys to be as pro's? I'd love to hear it...

Just b\c a kid is big and athletic doesn't mean he has the skill to excel in the NBA...and frankly ANY player who has confidence & mental tougness issues SHOULD be considered as a giant red flag....That shit isn't going to get better in the pro's...when he is picking up fouls left and right and vets are beating the shit out of him in the post and talking shit in his ear...You can't go crying to your coach or your teamates then....

Big, athletic center who looks likes Adonis but plays like a NBDL reject....Stop me if you have heard\seen this before, it happens practically EVERY draft....

and Lillard everyone's little golden boy whose stock has seemingly shot up after a COMBINE? Really? A player whose stock suddenly shoots up at the combine, haven't heard that before? Of course skip the fact that he played in a sub par conference and when he did play better teams he struggled\was not nearly the "efficient scorer" that he was against the likes of Eastern Washington...skip past the fact that he has a low release point on his jump shot or that he doesn't have the explosion or the body to withstand NBA level contact and finish in the paint...or that he is clearly more of a scoring guard than a PG, but don't worry he has assured us that he can play the PG position, you know like Nolan Smith....Sorry but if I am going to take a risk on a PG this year it is going to be for a guy like Teague who was a top 5 rated kid coming out of HS, who played on the best team in college and stepped up his game in the NCAA tourney when it mattered most, whose assist\to ratio as a FRESHMAN is better than Lillard's as a junior, who is quicker and a better playmaker than Lillard, has a better body is more athletic and more explosive scorer and who is used to playing with NBA level talent, and whom you won't have to take\reach for with a #6 pick to insure you get him...

You don't like my OPINIONS? Fine, whatever...But I am stating MY opinion based upon facts\research and observation....and wasting picks on medicore talented players with significant issues is a recipe for remaining a shitty team....

Better to strike out going for players with much higher upsides ( and w\o signifcant issues\concerns) than draft a couple bottom 1/2 of the league (if even that) starters, who won't help your team signifcantly improve at all...

If I am wrong, then so be it, I am sure some people here will love to call me out on it...but I tell you this, I won't feel like gloating if I am right and POR picked them....just extremely dissapointed...



Can I help it if they are? :devilwink:
Click to expand...

You seem to really overrate top players from HS. All this talk of Lillard playing for a small college did you even get to see him play at all(I didn't)? Just asking because you seem to think Teague who is going to go in the 20's is better then Lillard at everything. The results for measurements would seem to point out that they have very similar bodies with Lillard having bigger hands a little more weight which makes me wonder how you can say one has a body built to take hits and one doesn't. Lilard is definitely a scoring PG but that seems to be all the rage recently, if you want a passing one you go for Marshall.
I'm not advocating taking Lillard at 6 here, if we got him at 11 i'd be fine but its not like he has moved up the boards that much, he went from being around 8-12 to around 6, as the best PG prospect in the draft thats not surprising because mocks will take into act teams with needs.
One last thing, i'v gotten into it with you before because it doesn't seem like you want to state your opinion and have a discussion but you want to attack people and try and make them seem stupid for having a differing opinion.
 
Another poster called me out, not vice versa, as the post they refered to was aimed at my opinion of POR mgmt, not any particular poster...

I don't think there is anything wrong with stating\defending your opinions vigorously and I usually try to avoid name calling...and I usually succceed at doing so...Strong opinion\talk doesn't mean an attack on the person, just the opinion\arguement...



and just FYI, but the correlation of top 5 HS prospect becoming good\very good NBA players is pretty strong.....
 
42N8Bounce said:
I see Meyers Leonard as - Dwayne Schintzius, Jim McIlvaine or Matt Geiger. Role player. Limited upside.
Harrison Barnes looks like - Walt Williams, Marcus Fizer or Martel Webster. Specialist. Needs the right system.

I'd be disappointed. But you gotta hope the Blazer scouts know what their doing. (I tried my best to say that with a straight face.)
Click to expand...

Harrison Barnes has nothing in common with Marcus Fizer.
 
Blaze01 said:
and niether do you...

Just what the fuck do you expect either of those guys to be as pro's? I'd love to hear it...

Just b\c a kid is big and athletic doesn't mean he has the skill to excel in the NBA...and frankly ANY player who has confidence & mental tougness issues SHOULD be considered as a giant red flag....That shit isn't going to get better in the pro's...when he is picking up fouls left and right and vets are beating the shit out of him in the post and talking shit in his ear...You can't go crying to your coach or your teamates then....

Big, athletic center who looks likes Adonis but plays like a NBDL reject....Stop me if you have heard\seen this before, it happens practically EVERY draft....

and Lillard everyone's little golden boy whose stock has seemingly shot up after a COMBINE? Really? A player whose stock suddenly shoots up at the combine, haven't heard that before? Of course skip the fact that he played in a sub par conference and when he did play better teams he struggled\was not nearly the "efficient scorer" that he was against the likes of Eastern Washington...skip past the fact that he has a low release point on his jump shot or that he doesn't have the explosion or the body to withstand NBA level contact and finish in the paint...or that he is clearly more of a scoring guard than a PG, but don't worry he has assured us that he can play the PG position, you know like Nolan Smith....Sorry but if I am going to take a risk on a PG this year it is going to be for a guy like Teague who was a top 5 rated kid coming out of HS, who played on the best team in college and stepped up his game in the NCAA tourney when it mattered most, whose assist\to ratio as a FRESHMAN is better than Lillard's as a junior, who is quicker and a better playmaker than Lillard, has a better body is more athletic and more explosive scorer and who is used to playing with NBA level talent, and whom you won't have to take\reach for with a #6 pick to insure you get him...

You don't like my OPINIONS? Fine, whatever...But I am stating MY opinion based upon facts\research and observation....and wasting picks on medicore talented players with significant issues is a recipe for remaining a shitty team....

Better to strike out going for players with much higher upsides ( and w\o signifcant issues\concerns) than draft a couple bottom 1/2 of the league (if even that) starters, who won't help your team signifcantly improve at all...

If I am wrong, then so be it, I am sure some people here will love to call me out on it...but I tell you this, I won't feel like gloating if I am right and POR picked them....just extremely dissapointed...



Can I help it if they are? :devilwink:
Click to expand...

You're always so hard to read and use way too many words to get your point across.

I'm not shooting down people and trying to act like I know more than the next armchair quarterback about this draft. You are telling everyone on this board that management will be a failure if they take Lillard or Leonard. Bottomline is, you don't know more than the next guy on this board about predicting who will be a failure, or a success at the next level.

Sorry to break the news to you, but Lillard was projected as a lottery player before the combine. You ramble on about Lillard not having explosion, or the body to withstand the NBA, but Chad Ford said he measured out almost the same size as Derrick Rose did a 6'8" wingspan and a 40-inch vertical. You ramble on about Teague in comparison to Lillard, but not much of what you rambled on about was true aside from the fact that Teague played on a better team. Mateen Cleaves won a championship, that didn't make him better than a guy like Eric Maynor who went to VCU.

I'll put trust in the various league executives and analysts that have attended the combine. Lillard's rise in pre-draft has reminded me a lot of another guy that rised to the top after workouts and wasn't exactly considered a pure PG coming out of college; Russell Westbrook.

As for Leonard, I think he can become like Spencer Hawes type player. Who taken at #11 in any draft is a solid pick.


mic-drop.gif
 
Last edited:
Fez Hammersticks said:
Would you guys shit bricks if our draft ended up something like this:

#6 Harrison Barnes
#11 (or up) Meyers Leonard
Click to expand...

No, Barnes is in that Top 6 group who would likely be BPA at #6 and at worse seems like he will be a solid NBA starter. Leonard is more of a gamble but as someone else said most #11 picks have their risks. My personal "guess" at this time is that Leonard would be a good gamble at #11
 
HCP said:
Good point. Blaze is coming across as HIS opinions are straight gold and everybody else don't know shit!
Click to expand...

I remember another poster just like that. I can't remember who it was?


Oh ya, it was me before the meds.
 
I sat there yesterday wondering, can you guys think of anyone from the last few years that really stood out in the combine and then turned out to be a bad pick? Im sure there are examples out there but I would like to compare them to Lillard. He seemed to do really well and just about everyone at the combined seemed to like him. What other players recently were like this but still turned out a bad pick?
 
Boise Blazer said:
I sat there yesterday wondering, can you guys think of anyone from the last few years that really stood out in the combine and then turned out to be a bad pick? Im sure there are examples out there but I would like to compare them to Lillard. He seemed to do really well and just about everyone at the combined seemed to like him. What other players recently were like this but still turned out a bad pick?
Click to expand...

Joe Alexander.
 
Boise Blazer said:
I sat there yesterday wondering, can you guys think of anyone from the last few years that really stood out in the combine and then turned out to be a bad pick? Im sure there are examples out there but I would like to compare them to Lillard. He seemed to do really well and just about everyone at the combined seemed to like him. What other players recently were like this but still turned out a bad pick?
Click to expand...
Great question. Hopefully someone can answer this
 
RR7 said:
Joe Alexander.
Click to expand...

That is a great answer. I looked it up after I saw this and found some interesting numbers though.

Alexander didn't really blow the doors off the combine

Comparing him to Faried, for example. Faried known as an athlete for sure, but didn't blow the doors off the combine either


w/o shoes
JA 6' 7.25"
KF 6' 6"

w shoes
JA 6' 8.25"
KF 6' 7.5"

Weight
JA 220
KF 225

Wingspan
JA 6' 11.5"
KF 7' 0"

Reach
JA 8' 10"
KF 9' 0"

Body fat
JA 5.8
KF 6.3

No step vert
JA 32.5
KF 30.5

Max vert
JA 38.5
KF 35.0

Bench
JA 24
KF 16

Agility
JA 11.33
KF 11.35

Sprint
JA 2.99
KF 3.26
 
Last edited:
Mediocre Man said:
That is a great answer. I looked it up after I saw this and found some interesting numbers though.

Alexander didn't really blow the doors off the combine
Click to expand...

He had the second fastest 3/4 court sprint. Second highest max. vert. reach. Second most bench reps. Good agility numbers. 8th in no step and max. vert jump. And he was white.
 
Boise Blazer said:
I sat there yesterday wondering, can you guys think of anyone from the last few years that really stood out in the combine and then turned out to be a bad pick? Im sure there are examples out there but I would like to compare them to Lillard. He seemed to do really well and just about everyone at the combined seemed to like him. What other players recently were like this but still turned out a bad pick?
Click to expand...

To me, that feeds into another, slightly more important question: Have the scouting staffs for any teams figured out which combine numbers (or combinations of) are actually useful? So many of the numbers end up telling you little about how the guy will play, and when someone like Rose or Westbrook tests about the same as numerous run-of-the-mill guards, you know the combine tests are failing to capture which components of athleticism actually translate to game situations.
 
handiman said:
To me, that feeds into another, slightly more important question: Have the scouting staffs for any teams figured out which combine numbers (or combinations of) are actually useful? So many of the numbers end up telling you little about how the guy will play, and when someone like Rose or Westbrook tests about the same as numerous run-of-the-mill guards, you know the combine tests are failing to capture which components of athleticism actually translate to game situations.
Click to expand...

For the PG's at least I wish they had a test that combined agility with speed and verticle. For instance set up the cones say 3 quarters court and have them dribble down full speed in and out of the cones and THEN measure their vert with the ball. Or find a way to incorporate having to finish that drill with a lay-up. This ability to break down defenders, get in the lane and finsh is a key for today's PG's. Take some number from this that is a combination of vert height and time.

Or find a way to measure jumper vert or the height of release. And then combine that with speed of release. I find at hard to believe that in todays world of technology that there arent ways to do this. Almost like advanced stats based on mechanics.
 
Last edited:
I envision a test like in MIB where Agent J has to shoot the hostiles and avoid the friendly targets. It doesn't even have to be with passing the basketball, just with court vision.
 
Boise Blazer said:
For the PG's at least I wish they had a test that combined agility with speed and verticle. For instance set up the cones say 3 quarters court and have them dribble down full speed in and out of the cones and THEN measure their vert with the ball.
Click to expand...

I think you're on the right track, but it needs to go a step further. If it's just cones, you're testing something that can be practiced and patterned. That's why so much of the combine data is nonsense. To be effective, the tests need to show how well a player can improvise athletically. I'm not sure how to do that, other than to borrow a page from Wipeout and have Bayno whacking at them with big pads from behind random pillars or something... See how balanced they can remain right before gathering to go up for a contested shot against a big windmill contraption with varied timing and openings. The point is, the whole thing has to be unpredictable, just like a game.
 
Anyone starting to wonder if MKG could slip to us at 6? If people are really high on Barnes (who tested better athletically than MKG), and Beal looks good, AND someone take a flyer on Drummond, doesn't that leave us with MKG potentially? I think it is a long shot, but I'm not hearing the buzz about MKG after the combine that you are about the others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top