Game Thread 2020 Debate Part 3 - Sept 12 (1 Viewer)

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TorturedBlazerFan said:
You don't need a master's degree to teach in High school, you need a Bachelors.
https://www.teachercertificationdegrees.com/careers/high-school-teacher/
https://www.teacher.org/career/high-school-teacher/

Just like in any other fields though if someone wants to go get a Masters Degree or a Doctorate I have no problems compensating them for it. I'm also not saying that 60k is "well paid" but it is a liveable wage at least in most places (there are a lot of variables to what is live-able).
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SlyPokerCat said:
Oh sorry. You have to get a certificate which takes a year ti get after your bachelor's. My bad. I don't know what you make bro but an educated person teaching our youth getting paid that low in portland is criminal
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Not sure why you keep saying you dont know what I make, why is that relevant?

I know of many “educated” people that make less than that, not all degrees are created equal in the job market. That salary isn't criminal, and it is livable. Now a lot of people should make more than what they do, every job has stress, and good / bad parts, but thats kind of my point when it comes to wages, cost of living, standards for the middle and lower class there are issues but they go way beyond just what educators make.
 
MarAzul said:
There you go! Stop right there. A good point for a real discussion
Actual numbers.
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The accountant for the school where I worked thought everyone should get by on less...he seemed to see the present cost of living through the dollar values of the 1950s....problem is new cars don't cost 800 bucks anymore. We would get something like a 35 cent raise after negotiations...shocking considering inflation and the cost of living...the money market has changed things....it's why one US dollar is 35 dollars in other countries...that's a global game that folks don't pay much attention to...corporations who keep several currencies and play the money market affecting the value of the dollar just by buying and selling money to themselves. They can't lose. A dollar doesn't buy much anymore. The inflation of real estate is out of control...my son's house has gained 100k in value in 2 years....next kid that buys it will pay up the nose to own it at this rate...I'm amazed how many new neighbors are here from California after selling some 2 bedroom house for a million bucks then coming up here and paying 300k for a house that was going for 120 not that long ago. Kids born here won't be able to afford it.
 
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SlyPokerCat said:
I don't disagree.

Butttt. Teachers with 5 years of higher education generally deserve more than someone with a high school degree. Also. They are teaching your children. If you don't put a value on that, well, i feel sorry for you.
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There was plenty of discussion about MY children in this vary thread, don't even try to act like I don't value my kids, or their education. I value other kids too, its not that I want any kid to have a poor education, or to have poor educators. Again never said dont pay them, just questioned the “live-able” wage comment, and why teachers get brought up so much more than others who face similar struggles.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
why teachers get brought up so much more than others who face similar struggles.
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I disagree with this across the board...the only recent thing that has highlighted schools has been tragedy...talking about paying teachers more who will carry a gun...etc...school shootings make the news...not school supplies or budgets
 
riverman said:
The accountant for the school where I worked thought everyone should get by on less...he seemed to see the present cost of living through the dollar values of the 1950s....problem is new cars don't cost 800 bucks anymore. We would get something like a 35 cent raise after negotiations...shocking considering inflation and the cost of living...the money market has changed things....it's why one US dollar is 35 dollars in other countries...that's a global game that folks don't pay much attention to...corporations who keep several currencies and play the money market affecting the value of the dollar just by buying and selling money to themselves. They can't lose. A dollar doesn't buy much anymore. The inflation of real estate is out of control...my son's house has gained 100k in value in 2 years....next kid that buys it will pay up the nose to own it at this rate...I'm amazed how many new neighbors are here from California after selling some 2 bedroom house for a million bucks then coming up here and paying 300k for a house that was going for 120 not that long ago. Kids born here won't be able to afford it.
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Yeah real estate is absolutely nuts, our house has doubled in value and we bought it 6 years ago. Had an appraiser out recently because were remodeling and doing a pretty big expansion (didn't expect so many kids), and I was kind of in shock...
 
riverman said:
I disagree with this across the board...the only recent thing that has highlighted schools has been tragedy...talking about paying teachers more who will carry a gun...etc...school shootings make the news...not school supplies or budgets
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Well maybe our bias’ come into play here, not just yours but mine as well. I feel like I hear much more about teachers wages than I do anyone else’s.

edit:
With that though, I think you have to admit that you have your own bias’ in this situation as youve been a teacher and probably feel they dont get talked about enough.

Maybe the reality is somewhere in between.
 
riverman said:
The accountant for the school where I worked thought everyone should get by on less...he seemed to see the present cost of living through the dollar values of the 1950s....problem is new cars don't cost 800 bucks anymore. We would get something like a 35 cent raise after negotiations...shocking considering inflation and the cost of living...the money market has changed things....it's why one US dollar is 35 dollars in other countries...that's a global game that folks don't pay much attention to...corporations who keep several currencies and play the money market affecting the value of the dollar just by buying and selling money to themselves. They can't lose. A dollar doesn't buy much anymore. The inflation of real estate is out of control...my son's house has gained 100k in value in 2 years....next kid that buys it will pay up the nose to own it at this rate...I'm amazed how many new neighbors are here from California after selling some 2 bedroom house for a million bucks then coming up here and paying 300k for a house that was going for 120 not that long ago. Kids born here won't be able to afford it.
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I always just build my house. I built the last five I lived in but for a couple I rented for a time.
But I hear yah! It is getting more difficult all the time.

I was happy with the last one where I was able to get off the treadmill of spending as much on the new one as the prior sold price.
 
MarAzul said:
Why do you say, you don't even need it?
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That’s the incentive for doctors with the advantage plan everything is billed through whatever advantage plan you have.
It’s not a supplement to the fed A&B taken out of SS.
That’s why many docs won’t take Medicare only.
If I had Medicare only & didn’t have an advantage plan , The fed would cover maybe 80% of some things and little or zero if others. And limit doctors charges. Which is cool is only the fed would be more efficient with docs .
 
How many of you work where they care what your degree is? Or how many you have? Does anyone get paid by what degree you have? (other than school teachers).

I don't think I ever hear this discussion by any other than school teachers.
 
Hoopguru said:
That’s the incentive for doctors with the advantage plan everything is billed through whatever advantage plan you have.
It’s not a supplement to the fed A&B taken out of SS.
That’s why many docs won’t take Medicare only.
If I had Medicare only & didn’t have an advantage plan , The fed would cover maybe 80% of some things and little or zero if others. And limit doctors charges. Which is cool is only the fed would be more efficient with docs .
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Oh, I guess I misunderstood your whole post. I thought you were saying you didn't need the medicare part B but you paid it anyway. Yes I know how the Advantage plans work.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Well maybe our bias’ come into play here, not just yours but mine as well. I feel like I hear much more about teachers wages than I do anyone else’s.

edit:
With that though, I think you have to admit that you have your own bias’ in this situation as youve been a teacher and probably feel they dont get talked about enough.

Maybe the reality is somewhere in between.
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I talk about it after watching the debate because several candidates spoke on education, health care, immigration and criminal justice...all important not only to teachers but to parents, students....really everyone...I don't see that as bias as much as I see it as a problem that will require a process to achieve a solution...that's the teacher in me.
 
MarAzul said:
How many of you work where they care what your degree is? Or how many you have? Does anyone get paid by what degree you have? (other than school teachers).

I don't think I ever hear this discussion by any other than school teachers.
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I went to night school for SLEP certification to teach second language students...went to mixology school to get a bartending degree and liquor license...studied music from the time I was 7 years old in school and outside of schools.
 
MarAzul said:
Oh, I guess I misunderstood your whole post. I thought you were saying you didn't need the medicare part B but you paid it anyway. Yes I know how the Advantage plans work.
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I don’t need it because the advantage covers the same with better effiency.
But the fed doesn’t want to give up the required B
In case I cancel my MA plan. It’s insurance on insurance for the government.
 
Hoopguru said:
I don’t need it because the advantage covers the same with better effiency.
But the fed doesn’t want to give up the required B
In case I cancel my MA plan. It’s insurance on insurance for the government.
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umm, When I had an MA plan, I had to have the medicare part B, it was required by law can't get a MA without it.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
Gets your foot in the door. Plus, you have to have a degree and a certain amount of credits to be a CPA. along with that should entail a level of pay.
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When I used to do recruiting, of CS and BS degrees or MS. It got them a starting salary. From then on it was purely based on performance on the job. Nobody cared what 45 year old team leader or system Architect's degree was.
 
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MarAzul said:
umm, When I had an MA plan, I had to have the medicare part B, it was required by law can't get a MA without it.
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That’s correct. It just doesn’t make since to have to be required to have it if MA covers everything.
Shouldn’t have to pay the $130 out of SS if you have a MA plan.
 
riverman said:
I went to night school for SLEP certification to teach second language students...went to mixology school to get a bartending degree and liquor license...studied music from the time I was 7 years old in school and outside of schools.
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I guess I am just a drag behind, studied here and there. Never did get my Naval Architect Plaque but I suppose I could.
Saw Space X launch in 2017, applied there for a job as a Naval Architect in response to and ad while I was in So Cal a couple winters back. Went there to the interview, I think they only interviewed me because I was a vet and they had to honor the priority. They asked me if I have a Naval Architect certificate. I said no but I could if needed, then I showed them the MarAzul and said I usual just point to this work.
Ha! The the guy said, Oh well hell, I only need a sea going log truck built! Not a work of art!
We sort of agreed it was probably not a fit for me.
 
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Hoopguru said:
That’s correct. It just doesn’t make since to have to be required to have it if MA covers everything.
Shouldn’t have to pay the $130 out of SS if you have a MA plan.
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Oh! I see!
Well they do want the money. I canceled my part B. I noticed the VA billing it. So I asked if I am required to have it. No.
That was that!
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
My kids are home schooled, now I realize thats not for everyone. Im not asking teachers to do anything for “my kids”.

People complain about throwing money at entertainment all the time. The food is too expensive, the tickets too expensive, cable too expensive, etc, etc.

To me you can make an argument that the average means for the middle class should be elevated, I just don't think teachers have it as bad as its portrayed in the political spectrum. They tend to make about average salaries for the schooling they have. -I googled this for like an hour last night so not the best research but everything I found on government websites tended to point towards this. -

If they don't want to teach they simply don't have too. There are others who do want too.

We are falling behind on education but that problem in my opinion isn't solved by just giving teachers unions more money.
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Teachers have it worse than you imagine. I've known some public school teachers and they all confirm that. It's tough to handle rowdy kids and classroom size has gotten out of hand.
 
Hoopguru said:
I hope its him and not an extreme socialist like Warren, Sanders, Beto, Harris
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They are not extreme socialists...that's propaganda from the right. If anyone is anti socialist they should refuse retirement benefits in my view and social services as well like the fire dept...library....etc...the propaganda that spins this as a McCarthy era scare is protecting 1% wealth at the expense of the middle class......what Warren and Sanders are talking about is what it'll take to have a strong middle class again instead of a country polarized by the wealthy and the poor....give workers a chance to buy a house or start a small business and cap Walmarts of the world from killing small business....Corporate America has fooled a lot of folks into thinking only about short term profit.
 
riverman said:
They are not extreme socialists...that's propaganda from the right. If anyone is anti socialist they should refuse retirement benefits in my view and social services as well like the fire dept...library....etc...the propaganda that spins this as a McCarthy era scare is protecting 1% wealth at the expense of the middle class......what Warren and Sanders are talking about is what it'll take to have a strong middle class again instead of a country polarized by the wealthy and the poor....give workers a chance to buy a house or start a small business and cap Walmarts of the world from killing small business....Corporate America has fooled a lot of folks into thinking only about short term profit.
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My opinion isn't shaped by propaganda from the right or left, its shaped by how I hear certain candidates promote nothing but huge government control with little talk about how they will help small business.
With large Gov you will get so many more regulations that stifle small business.
I paid into SS/Medicare for my whole career, Im getting some of it back now.
River, I always favor social assistance for those in need and it can come form a smaller government as well, as a huge big gov/ less business oriented government, imo.
For me, both sides need to be more focused on efficiency and controlling cost & size of government. Im not opposed to a higher tax on the 1%, but I also want to encourage business to continue to innovate and stay here and create jobs. Im also for the small mom & pop competing against the Walmarts to0, and know some that do by offering superb service. Walmarts came on the scene when so many government regulations were strangling smaller business and driving up their cost to thrive and survive.
 
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riverman said:
They are not extreme socialists...that's propaganda from the right. If anyone is anti socialist they should refuse retirement benefits in my view and social services as well like the fire dept...library....etc...the propaganda that spins this as a McCarthy era scare is protecting 1% wealth at the expense of the middle class......what Warren and Sanders are talking about is what it'll take to have a strong middle class again instead of a country polarized by the wealthy and the poor....give workers a chance to buy a house or start a small business and cap Walmarts of the world from killing small business....Corporate America has fooled a lot of folks into thinking only about short term profit.
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Well put.
The Nordic countries are examples of successful socialism, in fact, most of Europe has successful socialism. South Korea and Japan have highly successful socialized medicine as well as excellent public transportation.
 
Hoopguru said:
My opinion isn't shaped by propaganda from the right or left, its shaped by how I hear certain candidates promote nothing but huge government control with little talk about how they will help small business.
With large Gov you will get so many more regulations that stifle small business.
I paid into SS/Medicare for my whole career, Im getting some of it back now.
River, I always favor social assistance for those in need and it can come form a smaller government as well, as a huge big gov/ less business oriented government, imo.
For me, both sides need to be more focused on efficiency and controlling cost & size of government. Im not opposed to a higher tax on the 1%, but I also want to encourage business to continue to innovate and stay here and create jobs. Im also for the small mom & pop competing against the Wallmarts to and know some that do by offering superb service. Wallmarts came on the scene when so many government regulations were strangling smaller business and driving up their cost to thrive and survive.
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situation, problem, process, solution.....it takes at least 7 years to achieve substantial change in govt as constructed...so far Congress has not worked for the country in my view..they are too busy with divorce court fueled by partisan insults.....the candidates haven't built a team yet but at this point are projecting goals....I think you're sensationalizing the msg from the debate a bit. We are a country divided....people are frustrated with criminal justice, education, health care, trade wars and the apparent corruption at the top. That's where you start..they addressed this....Trump will tell you it's all great...he's a salesman....personally I hope it's not Joe or Bernie against Trump...the job needs younger energy.
 
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