Politics 2020 Field - DNC (2 Viewers)

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The DNC wouldn't do backroom dealing!!

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SlyPokerCat said:
The DNC wouldn't do backroom dealing!!
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They might if they had the ability. But they don't. This idea of a shadowy, all-powerful entity is just not grounded in reality. The DNC sets the debate locations, rules, and dates, and the convention location and dates. That's about it. Everything else is up to the campaigns (and later, the convention delegates).

barfo
 
Of course the DNC is putting pressure on candidates and cutting deals to try to organize things strategically. Both parties do this constantly and I wouldn't call that sinister. The DNC cut a deal with Sanders once Clinton was clearly going to win the nomination to get his endorsement. Either party would be stupid not to try to organize things to give them their best chance, in their eyes, to win. I don't necessarily agree with the Democratic party establishment over what gives them their best chance to win, but that's what they should be trying to do.

Even apart from their (irrational, IMO) fear of Sanders, they have a very rational fear of a contested convention--especially one where no candidate has a large plurality. The longer more candidates stay in the race, the greater the chance of such a thing happening. They should be doing their best to clear the field of candidates who really have no chance at the nomination.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Bernie gonna get fucked over again.
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If he does, it will be because he's failed to play well with others. Again.

Bernie claiming the process is rigged against him is no different than Trump claiming the process is rigged against him.

barfo
 
barfo said:
They might if they had the ability. But they don't. This idea of a shadowy, all-powerful entity is just not grounded in reality. The DNC sets the debate locations, rules, and dates, and the convention location and dates. That's about it. Everything else is up to the campaigns (and later, the convention delegates).
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The DNC isn't shadowy or all-powerful, but they have more power than that. They have the ability to influence where a lot of funding goes in races (which also means influence over endorsements from sitting legislators) and influence over the official party platform. They have the ability to pressure candidates or offer them inducements, especially younger ones who want a future in the party.

Obviously, as Sanders proves, they're not all-powerful and you can have some success without their approval. But he also shows that it comes at a cost--if he were not just the front-runner but also one the Democratic establishment was putting its weight behind, he'd probably already be the presumptive nominee.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
DNC is putting their finger on the scale. Buttigieg and Klobuchar quit right before Super Tuesday and endorse Biden. Sounds like a lot of backroom dealing going on.
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Consideration for VP?
 
Minstrel said:
The DNC isn't shadowy or all-powerful, but they have more power than that. They have the ability to influence where a lot of funding goes in races (which also means influence over endorsements from sitting legislators) and influence over the official party platform. They have the ability to pressure candidates or offer them inducements, especially younger ones who want a future in the party.
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I have to disagree. The DNC itself has very little influence, because the DNC is, frankly, a bunch of nobodies with very little money. It's like arguing that senate pages have a lot of influence. Yes, they are on the senate floor all the time. But no one pretends to give a shit what they think except senators looking for sex. There are people who have significant influence over races and candidates (see, e.g. Obama, Jim Clyburn, etc) but they do not wield their influence in the name of the DNC.

Obviously, as Sanders proves, they're not all-powerful and you can have some success without their approval. But he also shows that it comes at a cost--if he were not just the front-runner but also one the Democratic establishment was putting its weight behind, he'd probably already be the presumptive nominee.
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Democratic establishment isn't at all the same thing as the DNC.

barfo
 
Chris Craig said:
Consideration for VP?
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Or cabinet posts. I guess Amy is a possibility for Joe's VP, but she doesn't seem like the best fit. Pete even less.

barfo
 
What I really dont get is why Sanders is running as a Democrat. He obviously isnt really a democrat (or at least they dont seem to want him). A lot of his campaign ads I see is oh Im not like the Democratic establishment. Seems like he doesnt really want to be a dem, and they dont really want him all that badly either. Is it just politics and thats the only way he can run is to hitch his wagon to theirs?
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
What I really dont get is why Sanders is running as a Democrat. He obviously isnt really a democrat (or at least they dont seem to want him). A lot of his campaign ads I see is oh Im not like the Democratic establishment. Seems like he doesnt really want to be a dem, and they dont really want him all that badly either. Is it just politics and thats the only way he can run is to hitch his wagon to theirs?
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Yes.

barfo
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
What I really dont get is why Sanders is running as a Democrat. He obviously isnt really a democrat (or at least they dont seem to want him). A lot of his campaign ads I see is oh Im not like the Democratic establishment. Seems like he doesnt really want to be a dem, and they dont really want him all that badly either. Is it just politics and thats the only way he can run is to hitch his wagon to theirs?
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You basically have to run as a Democrat or Republican. Bernie clearly aligns more with Democratic (liberal) values than Republican values. His success has been largely pulling people in that weren't strict Democrats (like me) but he's definitely also garnered the support of many people who have been democrats for years.
 
barfo said:
Yes.

barfo
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So he's essentially the "lefts" Trump. The "right" didn't like Trump either until they couldn't stop that train because of the "extreme" right. Now they're all over him. He had a fervent "base" who was way further right then most people on the right wanted and then they all voted for Trump because he wasn't the other team. This election will come down to how much support they can get from their team and how many of their team are motivated by I don't want the person from the other team.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
You basically have to run as a Democrat or Republican. Bernie clearly aligns more with Democratic (liberal) values than Republican values. His success has been largely pulling people in that weren't strict Democrats (like me) but he's definitely also garnered the support of many people who have been democrats for years.
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I don't really know what Republican or Democrat values are anymore. Seems like essentially they both want money and power and will kind of willy-nilly go wherever they think there is more of those.
I know what Democrats always like to say republican values are, and what Republicans like to say Democrat values are but it's usually just gross generalities and demeaning of the "other side". Republicans don't "love" war for oil, or racism, Democrats don't love crony capitalism or big slow government. - At least not your normal every-day voters. Think the normal everyday voters agree on a lot more then what we're led to believe they just picked a team R or D and are riding it out.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I don't really know what Republican or Democrat values are anymore. Seems like essentially they both want money and power and will kind of willy-nilly go wherever they think there is more of those.
I know what Democrats always like to say republican values are, and what Republicans like to say Democrat values are but it's usually just gross generalities and demeaning of the "other side". Republicans don't "love" war for oil, or racism, Democrats don't love crony capitalism or big slow government. - At least not your normal every-day voters. Think the normal everyday voters agree on a lot more then what we're led to believe they just picked a team R or D and are riding it out.
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I agree with a lot of that. I'm not a dedicated Democrat. I didn't vote for Obama in 2012 (the first election I could vote in) and only registered as a D in 2016 because of Bernie. But IMO it's mostly the "social issues" like gay marriage, abortion, etc. that have separated the parties, at least in recent times as I'm no historian.
 
barfo said:
I have to disagree. The DNC itself has very little influence, because the DNC is, frankly, a bunch of nobodies with very little money. It's like arguing that senate pages have a lot of influence. Yes, they are on the senate floor all the time. But no one pretends to give a shit what they think except senators looking for sex. There are people who have significant influence over races and candidates (see, e.g. Obama, Jim Clyburn, etc) but they do not wield their influence in the name of the DNC.
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My understanding is the DNC has a lot of say in where donations to the party go, when it comes to funding Senate and House races. I could be wrong about that.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I agree with a lot of that. I'm not a dedicated Democrat. I didn't vote for Obama in 2012 (the first election I could vote in) and only registered as a D in 2016 because of Bernie. But IMO it's mostly the "social issues" like gay marriage, abortion, etc. that have separated the parties, at least in recent times as I'm no historian.
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There's probably some of that. I think the "appeal" of Bernie is he actually talks about social issues that younger people care about, whether you agree with his stance on those things or not. Every time I talk to some of my really conservative friends who make good points about Bernie maybe not being so good at cashing the checks he's writing, is well the thing is politics is usually about over-promising thats the game. Republicans I never even really hear them bring it up. It's like they're unaware or just don't care that Tuition, healthcare, homelessness, and the climate are important issues for younger generations. The least they could do is say hey I think this plan is bad, here's my plan and we could discuss the options out there, but they literally say almost nothing about social issues.
Maybe part of their problem is they tied their wagon to Trump and don't have time to come up with plans they have to spend all their time with attorneys trying to keep Trump above the law so he can do whatever he feels like... I don't know. I'm very strongly against some of Bernie's ideologies, but I'll give him a ton of credit for actually having some ideas, and talking about things we SHOULD be talking about, same with Warren for that matter.
 
I really don't think Biden has a better chance to beat Trump than Bernie. I think if Biden is the nominee, many of Bernie's supporters will just stay home and not vote. Whether you think that reflects poorly on Bernie and his supporters or not is a valid question but I'm pretty sure it's true.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I really don't think Biden has a better chance to beat Trump than Bernie. I think if Biden is the nominee, many of Bernie's supporters will just stay home and not vote. Whether you think that reflects poorly on Bernie and his supporters or not is a valid question but I'm pretty sure it's true.
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If this is true, I would say that these Bernie supporters are just as bad as Trump supporters that do the "my way or the highway".

Just for this kind of stuff - I would like a moderate that can actually try to negotiate with everyone in the race.
 
andalusian said:
If this is true, I would say that these Bernie supporters are just as bad as Trump supporters that do the "my way or the highway".

Just for this kind of stuff - I would like a moderate that can actually try to negotiate with everyone in the race.
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You're certainly entitled to think that.
 
Minstrel said:
My understanding is the DNC has a lot of say in where donations to the party go, when it comes to funding Senate and House races. I could be wrong about that.
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I think the DCCC and DSCC are the organizations that fund senate and house races. They are not part of the DNC.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I think the DCCC and DSCC are the organizations that fund senate and house races. They are not part of the DNC.

barfo
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Newsflash: The DC just merged with the AAA. All bets are off.
 
ABM said:
Newsflash: The DC just merged with the AAA. All bets are off.
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Batteries are direct current, yes.

barfo
 
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