4 players who shouldn't be back

[KeepOnRollin]

next season if the Blazers want to accelerate the rebuild:
https://ripcityproject.com/posts/players-shouldnt-back-next-season-blazers-want-accelerate-rebuild

They hit the 4 that most in here have stated already.

If we can see it then you would hope the decision makers do?

NOTE: I don't want to dump any of these players. You have to get value. So no trade for the sake of trading. And I would actually be fine keeping 1 (as it is unlikely you find a great trade for all 4). But at minimum two need to go.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

next season if the Blazers want to accelerate the rebuild:
https://ripcityproject.com/posts/players-shouldnt-back-next-season-blazers-want-accelerate-rebuild

They hit the 4 that most in here have stated already.

If we can see it then you would hope the decision makers do?

NOTE: I don't want to dump any of these players. You have to get value. So no trade for the sake of trading. And I would actually be fine keeping 1 (as it is unlikely you find a great trade for all 4). But at minimum two need to go.

I agree that Simons and Thybulle need to go. Grant may need to go depending on the draft and/or the return for Simons, but at present, I don't think his presence is necessarily hindering the rebuild. Brogdon has value to this team, and I'd be down with him sticking around as a backup and mentor to Scoot/Sharpe.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Trade Shaedon, keep Simons.

Sharpe will be in a contract year, the Blazers will pay him based on potential vs on what he's actually done. That can severely limit us in our rebuilding

Simons, while not perfect, puts up solid stats. His 3pt shooting will help take pressure off of Scoot.

Having 2 players that can run the pick and roll will help Ayton and space the floor better.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Trade Shaedon, keep Simons.

Sharpe will be in a contract year, the Blazers will pay him based on potential vs on what he's actually done. That can severely limit us in our rebuilding

Simons, while not perfect, puts up solid stats. His 3pt shooting will help take pressure off of Scoot.

Having 2 players that can run the pick and roll will help Ayton and space the floor better.

Interesting take. I like Simons MUCH more than most, but...

I think Sharpe is our best chance of a star ala someone like Shai or Anthony Edwards. Not saying he will get there necessarily (although I am hopeful) but rebuilding teams have to shoot for the moon.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Trade Shaedon, keep Simons.

Sharpe will be in a contract year, the Blazers will pay him based on potential vs on what he's actually done. That can severely limit us in our rebuilding

Simons, while not perfect, puts up solid stats. His 3pt shooting will help take pressure off of Scoot.

Having 2 players that can run the pick and roll will help Ayton and space the floor better.

Keep Banton. You'll get a similar player to Sharpe for half the future contract price.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Keep Banton. You'll get a similar player to Sharpe for half the future contract price.

View attachment 64450

Keeping Banton is not contingent on jettisoning Simons or Sharpe imo.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Interesting take. I like Simons MUCH more than most, but...

I think Sharpe is our best chance of a star ala someone like Shai or Anthony Edwards. Not saying he will get there necessarily (although I am hopeful) but rebuilding teams have to shoot for the moon.

I'm afraid Joe will try to sell the fan base on that sizzle and give Sharpe a max/near contract. Scoot will be a max/near contract in the future. Taking up a huge chunk of our salary cap on two guards will put us in the same position as we were in with Dame and CJ.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Thybulle likely has negative value like Timelord so I suspect it makes more sense for him to stay put.

Yes Brogdon and Grant make the most sense to trade.

Ant I'm fine with trading for good value but if it's not even a decent FRP then better to just hold onto him. Never got to see much of him with Sharpe and his contract will be an expiring soon.

Ayton I'd consider trading if we got great value... Kind of suspect it makes more sense to keep him though.

If we do trade Ant then keeping Brogdon is a bit more palatable. Still not ideal to have Brogdon but not as urgent to trade him to create guard room.

This also is a bit dynamic on any rookie or other acquisition the Blazers make that could warrant over 20mpg/possible starter.

 

[Hoopguru]

Trade Shaedon, keep Simons.

Sharpe will be in a contract year, the Blazers will pay him based on potential vs on what he's actually done. That can severely limit us in our rebuilding

Simons, while not perfect, puts up solid stats. His 3pt shooting will help take pressure off of Scoot.

Having 2 players that can run the pick and roll will help Ayton and space the floor better.

If Joe thinks in order to keep his job based on performance he could move any combination of players to best fit Ayton and other vets he thinks could get to the playoffs. If Joe thinks Jody is good with a longer term rebuild and it could extend his career 3-5 more years he's going young and trading away all but maybe one of Grant, Simons, Brogdon, Ayton? I think his calculus is to extend his and Chaunceys careers by going young by using the chips he's gathered and has on the horizon.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Interesting take. I like Simons MUCH more than most, but...

I think Sharpe is our best chance of a star ala someone like Shai or Anthony Edwards. Not saying he will get there necessarily (although I am hopeful) but rebuilding teams have to shoot for the moon.

I wouldn't put him in Shai or Edwards comparisons those guys were better from day 1 in the NBA

Still agreed that I'd much rather role the dice on Sharpe upside, even though he'd likely get a better return in trade.

Doesn't make sense to trade Sharpe after such a down year.

Also might have made sense to trade Sharpe if we tried to win with Dame - but now it just doesn't.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I'm afraid Joe will try to sell the fan base on that sizzle and give Sharpe a max/near contract. Scoot will be a max/near contract in the future. Taking up a huge chunk of our salary cap on two guards will put us in the same position as we were in with Dame and CJ.

Can't imagine Sharpe or Scoot having max contract discussions - they aren't even good backups yet. We are 2 or 3 summers away from them being a restricted free agent so zero concern needed for that this summer. Sure Sharpe could get an extension next summer - but if he still is very unproven there is no need to consider anything close to the max.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I'm afraid Joe will try to sell the fan base on that sizzle and give Sharpe a max/near contract. Scoot will be a max/near contract in the future. Taking up a huge chunk of our salary cap on two guards will put us in the same position as we were in with Dame and CJ.

Really if Joe is so eager to blow the cap like this it probably doesn't matter what this franchise does as well just be in a cycle of repeating 2016 free agency with Meyers Leonard, Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe type deals perpetually clogging our cap.

Who was the Blazers main salary cap expert back in 2016?

 

[Chris Craig]

Grant, Brogdon, and Simons are all possible trade fodder.

Do we throw in Robert Williams because of his injury proneness?

Does Matisse want to be here?

Moses is likely gone.

We are drafting at least one rookie if not two in the first round. Those are guaranteed spots. We need roster space to do that. The two second round picks are unguaranteed and will end on the Remix.

We may trade the Warriors pick with a player or players to help make space and balance out the team more.

 

[Hoopguru]

Joe knows that Jody and Burt won't spend what's necessary to contend, he has to stay under the tax.

 

[julius]

Trading Shaedon to keep Simons seems to be a bit counter productive, especially considering Shaedon in his 2nd year...hell, his first year, was better than Simons was in his 3rd year. And he's taller. More athletic.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I have a problem with the premise of the article. I can see the reason to trade some of these guys, but I would argue that it would really help accelerate the rebuild. Unless by accelerate he means tank again.

I can see Thybulle being traded because I just don't see the minutes for him. And although Rupert is not yet as good as Matisse, I can see where they are hopeful he can get there. But keeping him will not hinder the rebuild...because he won't get many minutes. So we might as well try to get a late 1st for him.

The rest of those guys are more complicated.

Ant provides a skill set that we lack. Not a lot of shooters on this team. Are we drafting a shooting guard? Yes, I would move him in a package to Orlando for Franz. But would Orlando do it? If he brings back a young forward from some other team then I can see it, but my preference is for him to come off the bench for us.

The only reason to trade Grant is if we want to tank again. Even if we draft a young SF, and there are a few with a lot of potential, they will need a couple of years to develop. A rookie does not need 30+ minutes to develop. 18-20 is ample. And if Sarr fell to us, I think Grant would fit well next to him, and Ayton. But if we were to able to move him or Ant for a quality young SF then I would do it.

I would keep Brogdon if we traded Ant for a forward. Either way keeping him would not hinder the rebuild unless all of a sudden he demanded huge minutes. Which so far has not. But I am ok getting a first for him as well.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Trading Shaedon to keep Simons seems to be a bit counter productive, especially considering Shaedon in his 2nd year...hell, his first year, was better than Simons was in his 3rd year. And he's taller. More athletic.

Only dynamics that could lean towards trading Sharpe is if it was a much better return or the Blazers needed more of the proving Simons scoring to win now. Highly doubt either will apply.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I have a problem with the premise of the article. I can see the reason to trade some of these guys, but I would argue that it would really help accelerate the rebuild. Unless by accelerate he means tank again.

I can see Thybulle being traded because I just don't see the minutes for him. And although Rupert is not yet as good as Matisse, I can see where they are hopeful he can get there. But keeping him will not hinder the rebuild...because he won't get many minutes. So we might as well try to get a late 1st for him.

The rest of those guys are more complicated.

Ant provides a skill set that we lack. Not a lot of shooters on this team. Are we drafting a shooting guard? Yes, I would move him in a package to Orlando for Franz. But would Orlando do it? If he brings back a young forward from some other team then I can see it, but my preference is for him to come off the bench for us.

The only reason to trade Grant is if we want to tank again. Even if we draft a young SF, and there are a few with a lot of potential, they will need a couple of years to develop. A rookie does not need 30+ minutes to develop. 18-20 is ample. And if Sarr fell to us, I think Grant would fit well next to him, and Ayton. But if we were to able to move him or Ant for a quality young SF then I would do it.

I would keep Brogdon if we traded Ant for a forward. Either way keeping him would not hinder the rebuild unless all of a sudden he demanded huge minutes. Which so far has not. But I am ok getting a first for him as well.

Thybulle for a FRP? Simons for Franz? Brogdon on an expiring for a FRP when he was traded for that while younger on a cheap 2 year deal? Grant for a quality young SF?

Many Blazers fans are getting way out of line with expected trade returns. Our guys don't have this value.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm afraid Joe will try to sell the fan base on that sizzle and give Sharpe a max/near contract. Scoot will be a max/near contract in the future. Taking up a huge chunk of our salary cap on two guards will put us in the same position as we were in with Dame and CJ.

Plus you have a very productive player in Brogdon that Chauncey and Joe have big plans for probably.

 

[Hoopguru]

Thybulle for a FRP? Simons for Franz? Brogdon on an expiring for a FRP when he was traded for that while younger on a cheap 2 year deal? Grant for a quality young SF?

Many Blazers fans are getting way out of line with expected trade returns. Our guys don't have this value.

If you could get Franz for Simons that would be super!

 

[Pinwheel1]

Thybulle for a FRP? Simons for Franz? Brogdon on an expiring for a FRP when he was traded for that while younger on a cheap 2 year deal? Grant for a quality young SF?

Many Blazers fans are getting way out of line with expected trade returns. Our guys don't have this value.

That was kind of my point......so why dump them?

 

[kjironman1]

Yeah you don’t get rid of Sharpe yet. Let’s see what next year brings.

 

[julius]

Yeah you don’t get rid of Sharpe yet. Let’s see what next year brings.

And furthermore, unless done sarcastically, to compare him to Banton is silly. You don't justify trading someone with the potential that Shaedon has, with someone who is 3.5 years older and in his 3rd year on his 3rd team finally has decent stats.

Banton has the potential to be a backup 6th/7th man. Shaedon has the potential to be an all star.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Be easier to say the 4 players who SHOULD be back. Not sure we could get to 4, though.

 

[Ed O]

Thybulle, Brogdon, and Grant should not be on the roster. They don't have good contracts and they aren't good enough to make a difference any time soon on the Blazers (in terms of contending). It depends on what we can get for them... I'd take second rounders and cap relief/to get out from under their deals) for Thybulle and Grant, and ideally we'd get a bit more for Brogdon but who knows?

Simons slots in just fine with Scoot and Sharpe at the guard positions in my opinion. None of the three of them can stay healthy, so there should be plenty of minutes, and even if they ARE healthy, getting 32 minutes each (with Simons splitting time between the two guard spots) seems like a plan to me. Of course, if we could get the equivalent of Simons as a larger player, then I'd be willing to listen, or if we could get a couple firsts for him, then I'd do that, too... I just don't know that we can get that kind of value for him.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Trade Shaedon, keep Simons.

Sharpe will be in a contract year, the Blazers will pay him based on potential vs on what he's actually done. That can severely limit us in our rebuilding

Simons, while not perfect, puts up solid stats. His 3pt shooting will help take pressure off of Scoot.

Having 2 players that can run the pick and roll will help Ayton and space the floor better.

Isn't Shaedon LITERALLY the only player we have who has genuine star potential? Of course, he does seem to be injured A LOT, and his shooting sure deserted him in SL.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here's a question: imagine you're picking players from our roster in order of "I want to keep them". What is that order? I'm trying to think who I'd pick first. It might be Jabari, although he was kind of a letdown this season. Sure can rebound like a motherfucker, though.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Here's a question: imagine you're picking players from our roster in order of "I want to keep them". What is that order? I'm trying to think who I'd pick first. It might be Jabari, although he was kind of a letdown this season. Sure can rebound like a motherfucker, though.

@SlyPokerDog--when are we getting that dislike button?

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I agree that Simons and Thybulle need to go. Grant may need to go depending on the draft and/or the return for Simons, but at present, I don't think his presence is necessarily hindering the rebuild. Brogdon has value to this team, and I'd be down with him sticking around as a backup and mentor to Scoot/Sharpe.

It's really difficult to know how Grant could have fit in. We just don't know. I think it would have been better if Billups had tried to slowly build a team offense instead of trying to win games with Grant iso play.

 

[julius]

Thybulle, Brogdon, and Grant should not be on the roster. They don't have good contracts and they aren't good enough to make a difference any time soon on the Blazers (in terms of contending). It depends on what we can get for them... I'd take second rounders and cap relief/to get out from under their deals) for Thybulle and Grant, and ideally we'd get a bit more for Brogdon but who knows?

Simons slots in just fine with Scoot and Sharpe at the guard positions in my opinion. None of the three of them can stay healthy, so there should be plenty of minutes, and even if they ARE healthy, getting 32 minutes each (with Simons splitting time between the two guard spots) seems like a plan to me. Of course, if we could get the equivalent of Simons as a larger player, then I'd be willing to listen, or if we could get a couple firsts for him, then I'd do that, too... I just don't know that we can get that kind of value for him.

Agreed with most of what you said, tho Im fine if they keep Matisse (also fine if they trade him). I'm the same with with Anfernee (round peg, square hole sorta thing).

But I don't know if I'd say that Shaedon can't stay healthy. He played 80 games last year, and part of me wonders if the surgery he had was like the MF of the modern era.

And I think a lot of Simons injuries were tank related, in that if the team wasn't either A: sucking ass and tanking and B: actually competing for something, he'd play.