5/18, 4 Assists from the "PG" Miller in 38 Minutes

[mook]

To my Ear and box score interpretation ability Bayless has actually been more effective for us than Blake.

Interesting point. I just took a look at their performances so far:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jerryd_bayless/index.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_blake/index.html

Both playing around 20 minutes and 5+ games, so it's a pretty fair head-to-head comparison.

Bayless is getting to the free throw line a LOT more. Both are shooting piss-poor (sub .400), although Blake is even better than his usual dead-eye from three point range (.476).

What really stands out is turnovers--1 per game for Bayless, 3 per game for Blake.

Neither guy really "runs" an offense. Blake waits for an open 3, Bayless waits for the opportunity to drive and draw fouls.

I haven't seen any games, but just knowing Bayless he's probably at least as good on the defensive end.

If these two guys are playing even close to a draw, you have to give the minutes to Bayless. He's just so much younger and has so much more upside.

Interesting to think that two guys who had become fixtures on our team (Outlaw and Blake) suddenly look like they could be competing for any playing time they can get.

 

[mook]

PG should be no higher than 5th in shot attempts per game, or it's ludicrous to refer to him as a pass-first or facilitator.

Fail.

Yeah, because that's what Stockton and Magic and Kidd and Chris Paul and Deron Williams did. Oh wait, not they didn't. On a lot of teams they were the third (or better) leading scorer.

 

[blazerboy30]

As usual, you fail to see the big picture due to your poor grasp of the basic fundamentals of team play.

Miller's ballhogging and poor (and usually last second) passing, along with his inability to score from outside to spread the defense are the reasons most of our reliable scorers are having the worst pre-season of their lives.

He's a square peg that's going to bring down this team just as he brought down the last 4 he played for.

How were you able to watch the game? I was under the impression that the games weren't on TV.

 

[MARIS61]

The lineup he shot the most in was with Miller, Blake, Webster, Howard and Pryz on the floor. The ONLY guy in that lineup capable of creating his own shot was Miller. What else was he supposed to do?

Nate is putting Miller in positions where he has to score. And that is what Miller is trying to do.

The back court pairing of Blake and Miller is horrific. I am hoping I don't see it once during the regular season. Unfortunately, I think I probably will.

That's simply not true. We all heard the game, and followed the lineups.

He shot regularly the entire time he played, and rarely gave up the ball until the clock was almost run out, leaving others to heave up last second prayers.

He's all about making himself look better than his teammates.

His career attempts = 9541 His career assists = 6020

John Stockton's attempts = 13658 John's career assists = 15,806

See the ratio disparity?

 

[MARIS61]

Interesting point. I just took a look at their performances so far:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jerryd_bayless/index.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_blake/index.html

Both playing around 20 minutes and 5+ games, so it's a pretty fair head-to-head comparison.

Bayless is getting to the free throw line a LOT more. Both are shooting piss-poor (sub .400), although Blake is even better than his usual dead-eye from three point range (.476).

What really stands out is turnovers--1 per game for Bayless, 3 per game for Blake.

Neither guy really "runs" an offense. Blake waits for an open 3, Bayless waits for the opportunity to drive and draw fouls.

I haven't seen any games, but just knowing Bayless he's probably at least as good on the defensive end.

If these two guys are playing even close to a draw, you have to give the minutes to Bayless. He's just so much younger and has so much more upside.

Interesting to think that two guys who had become fixtures on our team (Outlaw and Blake) suddenly look like they could be competing for any playing time they can get.

Bayless has performed far better than Miller also in pre-season, so you support starting Bayless and having Blake and Miller fight for backup scraps?

 

[MARIS61]

It's hard to rack up assists when the guys you are passing to are shooting 3-10, 3-12 and 1-7. If Blake or Outlaw could hit a wide open shot, Miller would have easily had another 3 - 4 assists.

It's hard to shoot well when you are frozen out of the offense by a ballhog who only passes to you after you're doubled or the shot has run out.

Both shot just fine before Miller arrived, and both will shoot fine once he's gone, which hopefully for our chances this year will be ASAP!

 

[mook]

Bayless has performed far better than Miller also in pre-season, so you support starting Bayless and having Blake and Miller fight for backup scraps?

How has he performed better? Miller has more assists per game or per minute, more points and is shooting .472 to Bayless' .379. That last one is a whopping difference.

*sigh* Why do I even reply? It's clear you won't be satisfied until everybody agrees with you that Sergio Rodriguez is the best young PG in the NBA.

 

[Nikolokolus]

How has he performed better? Miller has more assists per game or per minute, more points and is shooting .472 to Bayless' .379. That last one is a whopping difference.

*sigh* Why do I even reply? It's clear you won't be satisfied until everybody agrees with you that Sergio Rodriguez is the best young PG in the NBA.

You really think he wants people to agree? For awhile I wasn't completely convinced MARIS was a troll (somewhat embarrassingly I admit that I thought it actually was possible for somebody to be that dense). He's a pretty effective troll in that even though you know he's jerking you around you still feel compelled to reply if only because you don't want people to become stupider for having read what he writes.

[video=youtube;fEkWH8DB7b0]

 

[Schilly]

Prior to tonight? Why not use current stats?

WTF are you having to edit and pre-select stats for to support your arguement?

PG should be no higher than 5th in shot attempts per game, or it's ludicrous to refer to him as a pass-first or facilitator.

Fail.

I was just using the lump stats and didn't feel like adding in last night, But I can since you asked.
Adjusted for last night, per 30 minutes plus FG%

Andre 12.8 fga 47%
LMA 12.7 fga 49%
Outlaw 12.7 fga 33%
Oden 12.1 fga 55%
Roy 10.9 fga 31%

So for every 300 minutes played Andre shoot one more shot than Outlaw or LMA. Roy isn't taking the shots because frankly he isn't making them.

It's preseason things are different.

 

[Boob-No-More]

As usual, you fail to see the big picture due to your poor grasp of the basic fundamentals of team play.

Miller's ballhogging and poor (and usually last second) passing, along with his inability to score from outside to spread the defense are the reasons most of our reliable scorers are having the worst pre-season of their lives.

He's a square peg that's going to bring down this team just as he brought down the last 4 he played for.

Did you see the game, or are you just making stuff up based on the box score? It sure sounds like the latter.

The Blazers were without Aldridge and Rudy - two of their better offenseive players. Miler did not start. So, he was not in the line-up with Roy and Oden at the start of the game. By the time he came in, both Oden and Roy were out of the game with foul trouble. So, there go our two remaining top scoring options.

That left Miller playing the vast majority of his minutes with Joel Rrzybilla (I love Joel, but he's not much of an offenseive threat), Juwan Howard (also not much of a scoring threat at this point in his career), Steve Blake (3-12), and Travis Outlaw (1-7). Given those options, Miller was smart to look for his own shot, and even smarter to drive the lane and draw fouls. He was clearly THE best scoring option we had on the court for much of the game last night. He was put in a situation where he needed to score to keep the Blazers in the game, with Blake and Outlaw shooting a combined (4-19), with 1 assist and 6 TOs, I can't believe you are trying to paint Miller as some kind of scapegoat - in a game his team won.

Please stop with the insults about my "poor grasp of the basic fundamentals of team play". Such ad hominem attacts add nothing to the discussion and are insulting and inaccurate. I have played, watched and coached competive basketball for over 40 years. I know a thing our two about team basketball. The "problem" last night wasn't Miller's lack of playing team ball, it was his teammates inability to hit an open jump shot and not turn the ballover.

BNM

 

[Schilly]

Just for the sake of throwing mud at a wall.

Per 30 minutes numbers
Andre
16.5 pp30
4.1 rp30
4.4 ap30
2.5 top30
4.9 ftap30
1.8 ast/to

Blake
10.2 pp30
3.0 rp30
4.0 ap30
4.5 top30
1.2 ftap30
0.9 ast/to

Bayless
14.8 pp30
2.7 rp30
3.0 ap30
1.7 top30
10.8 ftap30
1.8 ast/to

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's hard to shoot well when you are frozen out of the offense by a ballhog who only passes to you after you're doubled or the shot has run out.

Total bullshit. Travis didn't force one shot with the shot clock winding down due to Andre Miller. Travis did force a lot of shots, but it was his own doing, not Millers. Blake had plenty of time to catch and shoot as well. His shot simply was not falling last night. Try watching the game next time rather than making up totally inaccurate scenarios.

Both shot just fine before Miller arrived, and both will shoot fine once he's gone, which hopefully for our chances this year will be ASAP!

So, now you're claiming Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw have never had off shooting nights in the past. That the ONLY reason they shot poorly last night was Andre Miller. Double bullshit.

At least you can't blame Sergio's 3+ years of horrible shooting on Miller - although I wouldn't put it past you to try.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

His career attempts = 9541 His career assists = 6020

John Stockton's attempts = 13658 John's career assists = 15,806

See the ratio disparity?

So, he doesn't quite match up with the NBA's all-time assist leader? Wow--big shock there. Maybe he's not even top-5 all time. OK. So, let's look at #'s 6-8 on the all time assist list.

6. Isaiah Thomas FGA=15904; assists=9061; ratio=1.755 fga/a
7. Gary Payton FGA=18698; assists=8966; ratio=2.085 fga/a
8. Rod Strickland FGA=11928; assists=7987; ratio=1.493 fga/a

Miller's 1.585 fits right in with those guys.

 

[RR7]

You really think he wants people to agree? For awhile I wasn't completely convinced MARIS was a troll (somewhat embarrassingly I admit that I thought it actually was possible for somebody to be that dense). He's a pretty effective troll in that even though you know he's jerking you around you still feel compelled to reply if only because you don't want people to become stupider for having read what he writes.

+1.

I'm still constantly amazed at the amount of replies he is able to get from his comments.

 

[MARIS61]

I was just using the lump stats and didn't feel like adding in last night, But I can since you asked.
Adjusted for last night, per 30 minutes plus FG%

Andre 12.8 fga 47%
LMA 12.7 fga 49%
Outlaw 12.7 fga 33%
Oden 12.1 fga 55%
Roy 10.9 fga 31%

So for every 300 minutes played Andre shoot one more shot than Outlaw or LMA. Roy isn't taking the shots because frankly he isn't making them.

It's preseason things are different.

Or, to simply be accurate and not read your Miller-love into it, Miller shoots more than anyone on the team, and has relegated Roy to our 5th option.

 

[Boob-No-More]

His career attempts = 9541 His career assists = 6020

That equals 1.58 FGA/AST. That's hardly shoot first PG territory.

Terry Porter: 11734 FGA, 7160 AST = 1.63 FGA/AST

So, Terry Porter had a HIGHER career FGA/AST ratio than Andre Miller. Do you also consider Porter a selfish ballhog who was "all about making himself look better than his teammates"?

Let's see you try to worm your way out of this one.

BNM

 

[The Sebastian Express]

That equals 1.58 FGA/AST. That's hardly shoot first PG territory.

Terry Porter: 11734 FGA, 7160 AST = 1.63 FGA/AST

So, Terry Porter had a HIGHER career FGA/AST ratio than Andre Miller. Do you also consider Porter a selfish ballhog who was "all about making himself look better than his teammates"?

Let's see you try to worm your way out of this one.

BNM

More importantly Sergio has more shot attempts than assists in his career as well. Shocking that Maris did not bring this up.

 

[MARIS61]

So, he doesn't quite match up with the NBA's all-time assist leader? Wow--big shock there. Maybe he's not even top-5 all time. OK. So, let's look at #'s 6-8 on the all time assist list.

6. Isaiah Thomas FGA=15904; assists=9061; ratio=1.755 fga/a
7. Gary Payton FGA=18698; assists=8966; ratio=2.085 fga/a
8. Rod Strickland FGA=11928; assists=7987; ratio=1.493 fga/a

Miller's 1.585 fits right in with those guys.

All 3 were valuable because they were awesome defenders, which Andre is not.

All 3 had shooting range, which Andre does not.

All 3 guys were largely looked at to be main scorer's due to not so deep teams offensively, and yes, Miller was previously in the same boat on his 4 teams.
On our far deeper team he should not outshoot anybody. He has made no effort to improve other players games. None at all.

Payton's and Strickland's teams were also perennial under-achievers throughout their careers.

 

[MARIS61]

That equals 1.58 FGA/AST. That's hardly shoot first PG territory.

Terry Porter: 11734 FGA, 7160 AST = 1.63 FGA/AST

So, Terry Porter had a HIGHER career FGA/AST ratio than Andre Miller. Do you also consider Porter a selfish ballhog who was "all about making himself look better than his teammates"?

Let's see you try to worm your way out of this one.

BNM

Terry had twice the range as Andre, providing more legitimate shooting opportunities and the opportunity to spread the defense with 3's.

Andre can't hit consistently from beyond 12' so he's allowing the defense to pack it in and he's shooting when he has little chance of scoring, and we have little chance of rebounding his misses.

 

[Schilly]

Field Goals per assist

Derrick Rose 2.33
Chauncey Billups 1.97
Tony Parker 2.40
Chris Paul 1.47

Heck even Magic took more shots than Assists. Stockton was the other way around but seems to be an anomaly. Most of the guys that are thought of as pass 1st have ratios around 1.5

 

[Schilly]

All 3 were valuable because they were awesome defenders, which Andre is not.

All 3 had shooting range, which Andre does not.

All 3 guys were largely looked at to be main scorer's due to not so deep teams offensively, and yes, Miller was previously in the same boat on his 4 teams.
On our far deeper team he should not outshoot anybody. He has made no effort to improve other players games. None at all.

Payton's and Strickland's teams were also perennial under-achievers throughout their careers.

Strickland Career 3pt% .282
Thomas .290
Payton .317

Man those guys could light some tits up from 3.

 

[Schilly]

Good ole FG%
Payton .466
Thomas .452
Strickland .454

Andre .460

 

[MARIS61]

More importantly Sergio has more shot attempts than assists in his career as well. Shocking that Maris did not bring this up.

Barely true at 764 to 627, but still far, far better than Andre, Payton, Strick or Thomas.

Given that easily 1/3 of his attempts were buzzer-beater long shots taken on Nate's direction his true stat would be closer to Stockton's otherwise.

 

[julius]

nothin' to see here...

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Given that easily 1/3 of his attempts were buzzer-beater long shots taken on Nate's direction his true stat would be closer to Stockton's otherwise.

Given that about 1/3 of his FGA were threes (257 of 764), every single one of those would have to have been buzzer-beaters for your claim to be even remotely accurate.

You make this too easy...

 

[julius]

Umm...he said Strickland, not Stockton

Well, in my defense, you have to admit that without my glasses on strickland does look like stockton. both in print and in person.

off to deletesville I go!

 

[blazerboy30]

Well, in my defense, you have to admit that without my glasses on strickland does look like stockton. both in print and in person.

off to deletesville I go!

Just search-and-replace stockton with strickland. It's not like he'll know. He's said numerous times he doesn't follow any NBA other than the Blazers.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Barely true at 764 to 627, but still far, far better than Andre, Payton, Strick or Thomas.

Given that easily 1/3 of his attempts were buzzer-beater long shots taken on Nate's direction his true stat would be closer to Stockton's otherwise.

Barely true is still true, regardless if you like it or not.

 

[Schilly]

Maybe he would liek to break down how many buzzer ebater attempts all PG's have, as they tend to take more than any other position.

 

[BenDavis503]

This is really beginning to concern me.

I take it you only saw the box score? Haven't we all learned that box scores do not tell the story of the game? Miller played great and I am really glad we have him. Now that I have seen him twice this year with the team.