OT ACAB All Cops Are Bastards (yes EVERY one)

[dviss1]

That's not their base salary, as far as I can tell. They are encouraged to work overtime by handing out citations, etc.

We want them to be better. Meaning we'll have to up the level of scrutiny and accountability and offset that by increasing the compensation somehow. This is how you get the shitty ones out and replace them with a more qualified and professional force.

https://www.joinportlandpolice.com/wages-benefits

You're not counting any overtime. Stop trying to pay police without requiring them to do anything.

You make that much, you should have a 4 year degree.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I mean look at this shit... 258 Million of "Public Safety" is police.

View attachment 40589

Yeah, and I bet 1 good cop is probably worth 3 shitty cops on the street (as far as increasing public safety goes).

I'd rather pay the good cop double and get rid of the shitty cops. Use the National Guard as backup for emergency situations.

Then use the other $80 million per year to fund Housing First in Portland.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Really quickly @SlyPokerDog, it's not a dog whistle if you can hear it from the mountaintops...

I don't know who erased my post calling this racist but it's the fact that this RACIST shit gets to remain but the person calling it out gets censored...



This is that bullshit Sly... Most of the racist shit that continues to happen in this country is because racists are being protected and given cover...

That's the whole thing about not teaching CRT in schools... Racists want cover...

I frankly don't believe in the erasure of posts. Let the MFs stay so people can see people's true colors...

You are free to attack what he posted but please do not attack him personally.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You're not counting any overtime. Stop trying to pay police without requiring them to do anything.

You make that much, you should have a 4 year degree.

I addressed overtime.
I make that much in manufacturing without a degree at all... Though I do need bonuses to get there...

Cable installers can make that much. It's not that much money anymore.

 

[Natebishop3]

There is so much ignorance in this post...

It COMPLETELY ignores the fact that Ex servicemen should never be police officers.

Being a police officer you see the worst situations that you cannot unsee. I guarantee you most cops have some sort of PTSD.

ESPECIALLY those coming back from war. Why the hell do you want ex warriors with PTSD patrolling our streets? The fuck???

I would have a strict law AGAINST ex service people being able to become police.

You should also have to have a 4 year policing degree (create one we have fucking sculpting degrees in this country) to become a police officer.

Well this just shows your ignorance of the military. Being a veteran doesn't necessarily mean you are out in combat carrying a rifle. There are thousands of jobs in the military. Do you think everyone in the Air Force and Navy are out on the streets patrolling with machine guns?

Do you seriously think that someone who was a journalist in the Navy couldn't be a cop because they're a veteran? Come on man....

 

[Phatguysrule]

There is so much ignorance in this post...

It COMPLETELY ignores the fact that Ex servicemen should never be police officers.

Being a police officer you see the worst situations that you cannot unsee. I guarantee you most cops have some sort of PTSD.

ESPECIALLY those coming back from war. Why the hell do you want ex warriors with PTSD patrolling our streets? The fuck???

I would have a strict law AGAINST ex service people being able to become police.

You should also have to have a 4 year policing degree (create one we have fucking sculpting degrees in this country) to become a police officer.

I'm fine with military becoming police officers as long as they pass a thorough psychological examination and qualify otherwise.

And I'm fine with needing more education to be a police officer, but you'll have to up the pay to make it worth it.

Or make it a paid education.

 

[dviss1]

Yeah, and I bet 1 good cop is probably worth 3 shitty cops on the street (as far as increasing public safety goes).

I'd rather pay the good cop double and get rid of the shitty cops. Use the National Guard as backup for emergency situations.

Then use the other $80 million per year to fund Housing First in Portland.

The entire system of policing needs overhaul. Buuuut... It's working as intended. That's what a lot in here fail to realize.

Chuds come through our city and get police escorts...

 

[dviss1]

Well this just shows your ignorance of the military. Being a veteran doesn't necessarily mean you are out in combat carrying a rifle. There are thousands of jobs in the military. Do you think everyone in the Air Force and Navy are out on the streets patrolling with machine guns?

Do you seriously think that someone who was a journalist in the Navy couldn't be a cop because they're a veteran? Come on man....

Fine. Deployed Military. If you've been in a warzone you don't belong on the street policing.

 

[dviss1]

You are free to attack what he posted but please do not attack him personally.

He attacks black people as a whole all the time, with impunity...

 

[dviss1]

I addressed overtime.
I make that much in manufacturing without a degree at all... Though I do need bonuses to get there...

Cable installers can make that much. It's not that much money anymore.

And again, we're not getting a return on investment. The average Annual wage in our country is a little over $51K.

Police make double this. And you saying 100K a year isn't enough is just wrong. That puts them in the top 15% of wage earners in the US...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Fallacy man.. Damn... Minor traffic stops are things like registration expiration NOT speeding... You're projecting now bro... C'mon....

Okay stop. I drive and isee what i see more people are speeding on the roads.

im sorry but ill draw the line at you telling me what im not seeing on the roads.

if you want to have a discussion fine. But just stop with trying to tell me what i see on the roads. Or what im not seeing.

 

[Phatguysrule]

And again, we're not getting a return on investment. The average Annual wage in our country is a little over $51K.

Police make double this. And you saying 100K a year isn't enough is just wrong. That puts them in the top 15% of wage earners in the US...

You aren't paying attention to what I'm saying. I'm saying if you want to get better police you have to give better people incentive to be there.

Paying police for what many do now is criminal. Not only should they not be paid to do that, they should be severely punished.

I'm saying if that trade off means we have to pay good police more, that's an acceptable tradeoff for me. I have no problem with paying good people who do a good job well.

 

[dviss1]

You aren't paying attention to what I'm saying. I'm saying if you want to get better police you have to give better people incentive to be there.

Paying police for what many do now is criminal. Not only should they not be paid to do that, they should be severely punished.

I'm saying if that trade off means we have to pay good police more, that's an acceptable tradeoff for me. I have no problem with paying good people who do a good job well.

I just had a whole post explaining how I completely understand that you get what you pay for.

The bolded statement is fallacy.

We literally pay police to oppress black people so no, they make too much and we're not getting ANY ROI.

Police should do MUCH LESS. We call them for too many things.

They should NEVER go out to a mental illness situation.
They should never be called because your neighbor is being too loud.
They should never be called because you saw an unhoused person urinating on the street.

There are so many other instances when police are not necessary. But no, Karen and Ken are weaponizing their whiteness and are using 911 as their goddamn customer service line.

 

[dviss1]

Okay stop. I drive and isee what i see more people are speeding on the roads.

im sorry but ill draw the line at you telling me what im not seeing on the roads.

if you want to have a discussion fine. But just stop with trying to tell me what i see on the roads. Or what im not seeing.

But you're acting like I'm not on the roads too...

And the police have NOT been defunded. Their presence is bigger than it's ever been.

And if you are seeing more people speeding, it isn't for lack of a police prescience.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I just had a whole post explaining how I completely understand that you get what you pay for.

The bolded statement is fallacy.

We literally pay police to oppress black people so no, they make too much and we're not getting ANY ROI.

Police should do MUCH LESS. We call them for too many things.

They should NEVER go out to a mental illness situation.
They should never be called because your neighbor is being too loud.
They should never be called because you saw an unhoused person urinating on the street.

There are so many other instances when police are not necessary. But no, Karen and Ken are weaponizing their whiteness and are using 911 as their goddamn customer service line.

Which is exactly why I said I'd cut the number of police. But we do need police. And we do need them to have incredibly valuable skills.

You'll have to pay those people very well. No two ways about it.

 

[dviss1]

Which is exactly why I said I'd cut the number of police. But we do need police. And we do need them to have incredibly valuable skills.

You'll have to pay those people very well. No two ways about it.

You and I disagree on what Pay very well means.

100K is paid VERY well. You make more than 85% of Americans.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You and I disagree on what Pay very well means.

100K is paid VERY well. You make more than 85% of Americans.

Okay, I'll give you that. But we don't start with them making average. You're not going to get better results by cutting their pay.

They are paid as much as they are because they are encouraged to treat citizens as cattle (quotas and overtime).

But what if they were actually encouraged to solve problems and were paid bonuses based on actually solving those problems? Then the best police would be doing the most good and by doing so would be making the most money.

Maybe you do a statistical analysis of what changes need to happen (or annual goals) and review the individual officers actions and how they meet those goals.

The whole system needs to change.

 

[dviss1]

Okay, I'll give you that. But we don't start with them making average. You're not going to get better results by cutting their pay.

They are paid as much as they are because they are encouraged to treat citizens as cattle (quotas and overtime).

But what if they were actually encouraged to solve problems and were paid bonuses based on actually solving those problems? Then the best police would be doing the most good and by doing so would be making the most money.

Maybe you do a statistical analysis of what changes need to happen (or annual goals) and review the individual officers actions and how they meet those goals.

The whole system needs to change.

If it were up to me, we'd dissolve the entire department and start new.

The entire system is racist as fuck.

 

[Natebishop3]

Fine. Deployed Military. If you've been in a warzone you don't belong on the street policing.

Again, deployment doesn't mean anything. Guys get deployed and don't see a minute of combat. You're narrowing your view of the military into just people who see active combat, while there are tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of troops who perform critical jobs but don't see anything remotely like what you're thinking. A cook on an aircraft carrier would be deployed to the Gulf, a supply clerk who is stationed on an airbase, or hell.... military police. I know a couple dudes who were MPs. One of them is the goofiest and weirdest guys you'll ever meet. He was deployed to Serbia during that whole mess. If you saw this oddball out in the real world you would never in a million years think "cop."

 

[Phatguysrule]

If it were up to me, we'd dissolve the entire department and start new.

The entire system is racist as fuck.

That's fine with me. I agree.

But you're still going to have to compete with other cities and states. Which means you'll have to offer competitive pay for similar skilled candidates.

If we're going to hire more qualified more professional candidates we're going to have to offer better compensation than the competition.

 

[dviss1]

Again, deployment doesn't mean anything. Guys get deployed and don't see a minute of combat. You're narrowing your view of the military into just people who see active combat, while there are tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of troops who perform critical jobs but don't see anything remotely like what you're thinking. A cook on an aircraft carrier would be deployed to the Gulf, a supply clerk who is stationed on an airbase, or hell.... military police. I know a couple dudes who were MPs. One of them is the goofiest and weirdest guys you'll ever meet. He was deployed to Serbia during that whole mess. If you saw this oddball out in the real world you would never in a million years think "cop."

You know I have 2 cousins that did 8 combat tours between them right? Stop acting like you don't know WTF I'm talking about.
People who have seen combat. Here you go parsing shit like you always do.

Warriors are not what our police should be and you have a skewed view on this.

Bottom line, policing and being in the military are 2 different things. Stop acting like they make good cops because they don't.

 

[dviss1]

That's fine with me. I agree.

But you're still going to have to compete with other cities and states. Which means you'll have to offer competitive pay for similar skilled candidates.

If we're going to hire more qualified more professional candidates we're going to have to offer better compensation than the competition.

No we wouldn't. I would require police officers to reside in the county in which they work.

A full 86% of PPD don't live in the area. Now that is UTTER bullshit.
When you have no ties to the area, you aren't gonna give a fuck what you do to it's citizenry.

The people that police us live in the offshoot areas where their racism can fester.

 

[dviss1]

We can start by ENDING Qualified Immunity!

 

[Phatguysrule]

No we wouldn't. I would require police officers to reside in the county in which they work.

A full 86% of PPD don't live in the area. Now that is UTTER bullshit.
When you have no ties to the area, you aren't gonna give a fuck what you do to it's citizenry.

The people that police us live in the offshoot areas where their racism can fester.

I completely agree that Portland Police should live in Portland.

That will require an increase in pay to maintain a similar quality of life as police in neighboring cities and states.

What you're describing is how you get the least qualified police force, not the best.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We can start by ENDING Qualified Immunity!

Agreed.

 

[dviss1]

I completely agree that Portland Police should live in Portland.

That will require an increase in pay to maintain a similar quality of life as police in neighboring cities and states.

What you're describing is how you get the least qualified police force, not the best.

I disagree completely. And I'm unsure of why you feel you have the foremost knowledge on this.

We are in uncharted territory. We're attempting something that has never been done, police accountability.

We're attempting to paint a color we've never seen before with an unfamiliar brush.

Right now, you're saying what you believe but you don't know it to be true.

 

[dviss1]

Agreed.

Take some time and watch the video.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I disagree completely. And I'm unsure of why you feel you have the foremost knowledge on this.

We are in uncharted territory. We're attempting something that has never been done, police accountability.

We're attempting to paint a color we've never seen before with an unfamiliar brush.

Right now, you're saying what you believe but you don't know it to be true.

That's how every profession works. Can you please show me one example of lowering pay resulting in higher quality employees and service?

 

[dviss1]

I completely agree that Portland Police should live in Portland.

That will require an increase in pay to maintain a similar quality of life as police in neighboring cities and states.

What you're describing is how you get the least qualified police force, not the best.

If you're advocating that we tell the people who live in Battleground, Oregon City, Canby etc to move INTO town, we disagree.

Also, I completely disbelieve that we can't create a team to keep us safe here.

All we know is crime and punishment. That system has failed miserably for people of color, black folks specifically.

I believe we need to reimagine safety WITHOUT police. Try it...

 

[dviss1]

That's how every profession works. Can you please show me one example of lowering pay resulting in higher quality employees and service?

Who said lowering their pay? I said they don't need an increase.