Accept Miami Deal or bring Lillard to Camp?

[PtldPlatypus]

People talk about "4 first round picks" as being like the holy grail we're seeking, but Jovic and Jaquez were recent 1st round picks. Jovic had a really good showing in the tournament. So how getting two recent 1st round picks + 2 1st round picks different is that than getting 4 picks?

That was the same logic used to act like Keon was some great return in the Clipper deal. Didn't work then; doesn't work now.

 

[blazerfan11]

Actually bad Nurk is three games out of four when he is complaining to the refs constantly after missing easy layups while not getting back on defense and then chucking a three with 15 seconds on the clock for the second time down the court. Bad Nurk can’t focus on winning rather than whining. Bad Nurk can’t dunk from mor than two ft away from the basket and doesn’t even do that often.
Give me a hungry young center any day over Nurk. Softest big in the entire league.

Yeah, right. Softest big man in the league.

Nurkic abused Steven Adams and Jaren Jackson Jr. when Lillard wasn't around to "save the day."





Nurk took a shot right into JJJ's face, which brought JJJ to the ground and earned him another personal foul.

 

[barfo]

If I can't do camp, I can't do camp man. If I'm butthurt, I'm butthurt. I mean … simple as that. It ain't about that... I mean it's... It's not about that... At all. You know what I'm saying I mean... But it's...it's easy … to, to talk about... It's easy to sum it up when you're just talking about camp. We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about camp. I mean, listen, we're talking about camp, not a trade, not a trade, not a trade, we talking about camp. Not a trade. Not, not … Not the trade that I go out there and die for and demand every day like it's my last. Not the trade, but we're talking about camp, man. I mean, how silly is that? … And we talking about camp. I know I supposed to be there. I know I'm supposed to lead by example... I know that... And I'm not.. I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I do. I honestly do... But we're talking about camp man. What are we talking about? Camp? We're talking about camp, man. We're talking about camp. We're talking about camp. We ain't talking about the trade. We're talking about camp, man. When you come to the arena, and you see me sulking, you see me sulking don't you? You've seen me demand everything I want, right? But we're talking about camp right now. We talking about camp...

barfo

 

[wizenheimer]

Assuming Miami gets their owed pick back, then 24, 26, 28, and 30 with 2 pick swaps (Blazers' choice) + Jovic + Jaquez .

they won't be getting their own pick back. They might be able to coerce OKC into accepting the 2026 unprotected and deleting the 2025 pick from the encumbrance. That's what would allow the 2024 pick to be conveyed. But with Dame on Miami that pick will pretty much suck and be at the end of the first round

that would give Miami their 2024, 2028, and 2029 firsts available. They absolutely need to be unprotected but I'd bet Riley isn't offering either of the 2028/2030 unprotected. It would also make available their 2029 pick for a swap. Some people keep blahblahyapping about 2025 & 2027 swaps. But Portland can't guarantee the swap because their encumbrance to Chicago runs thru 2028. Those conditional swaps are worth jack shit

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Pick swaps with a well run team are essentially meaningless.
Late 1sts are hoping for something good and doing well is getting a quality 6th man.
Jaquez and Jovic -- hoping they become starters, maybe.
That a whole bunch of hoping. The Miami trade is about what Herro could bring in a 3-team (or more) trade if Herro is balling out to begin the season.
In other words, Miami is a seriously bad trade partner for the Blazers.

 

[beast blazer]

That was the same logic used to act like Keon was some great return in the Clipper deal. Didn't work then; doesn't work now.

And that logic is the same logic that values 1st round picks. They might develop into good players, but most amount to jack squat. Especially lower ones we'd likly be getting from a team that gets Dame.

 

[robson]

People talk about "4 first round picks" as being like the holy grail we're seeking, but Jovic and JaquJovic had a really good showing in the tournament. So how getting two recent 1st round picks + 2 1st round picks different is that than getting 4 picks?

Jovic had good game against South Sudan. In serious games he had zero impact on the game.

 

[kjironman1]

Yeah, right. Softest big man in the league.

Nurkic abused Steven Adams and Jaren Jackson Jr. when Lillard wasn't around to "save the day."

View attachment 57421



Nurk took a shot right into JJJ's face, which brought JJJ to the ground and earned him another personal foul.

Ha Ha Ha? Nurk ABUSED Steven Adams???
You actually wrote that?
Finding a game here and there where Nurk played well is easily offset by the multitude of games he sucked. This is much like making a highlight package that makes a player look like an All-Star.
We have all watched him for years now. I certainly know better. You should also. I find it humorous that you show one highlight package that has him making what you call a great pass to Lillard and then follow it up with "When Lillard wasn't around to save the day". Makes it sound like you feel Lillard has been holding him back. I wonder if i could build a highlight package of Nurk blunders? How tough would that be?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

And that logic is the same logic that values 1st round picks. They might develop into good players, but most amount to jack squat. Especially lower ones we'd likly be getting from a team that gets Dame.

Not at all. The value of first round picks is in their opportunity. A player who has already been selected is that player and that player only. A draft pick could be any available player that your scoring team identifies as worth selecting. More importantly though, picks also have so much more versatility for future trades because of the fact that they don't take up a roster spot or a salary slot that it's almost incomprehensible that you don't see the difference.

 

[inconceivable]

What isn't talked about:

Could the Blazers sale be currently in progress behind closed doors? This changes the ballgame about how Dame is handled .

Or stuff like this never not get reported?

 

[Bingo Bango]

Here’s how it’s going to go down, and Riley is counting on this: the Blazers will be so tired of trying to make a deal, and so eager to start the season with Scoot at the point guard position, that they will surrender and take Miami’s best offer. This is an endurance game. Riley knows Portland doesn’t want to send Lilliard to a place where he’s unhappy, or they would have done that already. So he is content to sit back and wait for Portland to finally cave.

Riley’s ace card is that Miami was in the finals last year, which means even if they don’t get Lillard, they’re still pretty good. So he’s not desperate.

 

[PCmor7]

Other ideas were 3 way with Philly/Clippers where Blazers get Maxey and two picks, Harden goes to LA.
Dame for Zion.
Dame for OG pieces and picks (or possibly Barnes instead)

But they say none of those 3 teams are likely and those deals don't make sense.

He's giving four hypothetical deals but saying three aren't likely and don't make sense. Hmmm, seems intellectually honest ... or wait, no, it seems like another article from the "world-wide leader" carrying water for Dame and the Heat.

 

[PCmor7]

Here’s how it’s going to go down, and Riley is counting on this: the Blazers will be so tired of trying to make a deal, and so eager to start the season with Scoot at the point guard position, that they will surrender and take Miami’s best offer. This is an endurance game. Riley knows Portland doesn’t want to send Lilliard to a place where he’s unhappy, or they would have done that already. So he is content to sit back and wait for Portland to finally cave.

And I have little doubt that he's pressing his media pals to keep writing stories like this in the hopes it makes the Blazers blink.

 

[Pinwheel1]

This is an endurance game. Riley knows Portland doesn’t want to send Lilliard to a place where he’s unhappy, or they would have done that already. So he is content to sit back and wait for Portland to finally cave.

I think Joe will try to send Dame to a team where he has a chance to win. But I also think the reason he has not yet made a trade to a team other than Miami is that no one has made an offer. So Riley might be content now, but at some point, Dame might finally cave as well.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Bring Lillard back to camp. He will buy in with this young core, be their mentor and we win it all in 2025-26.

 

[beast blazer]

Not at all. The value of first round picks is in their opportunity. A player who has already been selected is that player and that player only. A draft pick could be any available player that your scoring team identifies as worth selecting. More importantly though, picks also have so much more versatility for future trades because of the fact that they don't take up a roster spot or a salary slot that it's almost incomprehensible that you don't see the difference.

We need forwards, and Jovic and Jaquez are forward prospects. With the latter portion of the draft being mostly a crap shoot, what are the true odds that we'll get a better prospect if we draft them ourselves in the future? You might prefer a pick, but I don't see a huge drop off here.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

We need forwards, and Jovic and Jaquez are forward prospects. With the latter portion of the draft being mostly a crap shoot, what are the true odds that we'll get a better prospect if we draft them ourselves in the future? You might prefer a pick, but I don't see a huge drop off here.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't get Jovic and Jaquez in any Miami deal (although I'm certainly dubious about their value as prospects). I'm simply saying that draft picks provide a completely different kind of value as trade return, and it's not reasonable to suggest evaluators equate one with the other.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Riley’s ace card is that Miami was in the finals last year, which means even if they don’t get Lillard, they’re still pretty good. So he’s not desperate.

If that's Riley's ace card, it ignores the fact that some of his best cards are in other hands. Losing Strus and Vincent will hurt them more than any of their to-date offseason additions will help.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

they won't be getting their own pick back. They might be able to coerce OKC into accepting the 2026 unprotected and deleting the 2025 pick from the encumbrance. That's what would allow the 2024 pick to be conveyed. But with Dame on Miami that pick will pretty much suck and be at the end of the first round

that would give Miami their 2024, 2028, and 2029 firsts available. They absolutely need to be unprotected but I'd bet Riley isn't offering either of the 2028/2030 unprotected. It would also make available their 2029 pick for a swap. Some people keep blahblahyapping about 2025 & 2027 swaps. But Portland can't guarantee the swap because their encumbrance to Chicago runs thru 2028. Those conditional swaps are worth jack shit

It's a guarantee one of the 2025 or 2027 swaps would convey; Blazers can't lose both picks to Chicago.

Ideally if Herro or Martin is routed for a 2027 pick then that swap could be guaranteed. I'm not as concerned with 2025 as Heat are much more likely to be good then. The goal should be something such as unprotected picks in 2028+2030 with unprotected swaps in 2027+2029.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Pick swaps with a well run team are essentially meaningless.
Late 1sts are hoping for something good and doing well is getting a quality 6th man.
Jaquez and Jovic -- hoping they become starters, maybe.
That a whole bunch of hoping. The Miami trade is about what Herro could bring in a 3-team (or more) trade if Herro is balling out to begin the season.
In other words, Miami is a seriously bad trade partner for the Blazers.

With Dame and Butler being in their 40's and Riley being in his 80's I totally disagree those swaps are meaningless.

They are not a guarantee. They could be worth nothing. But they could be the most valuable piece in the trade package. The more "roll of the dice" assets the Blazers get with big upside the better.

I'd certainly rather have those swaps than Jaquez and likely than Jovic. Could either of the players be very good? Sure. Could either of them be total busts? Yes. None of these trade peices are guaranteed. Obviously some fans value these assets differently. But when Miami has questionable value to give up the Blazers should get all of these assets they can.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

And that logic is the same logic that values 1st round picks. They might develop into good players, but most amount to jack squat. Especially lower ones we'd likly be getting from a team that gets Dame.

Sometimes they're worth nothing. Other times they're worth a fortune. See the Celtics getting Tatum and Brown in the Nets trade.

Mediocre veterans are certainly never going to change the long term direction of this franchise. Better to take some swings than settle for mediocrity.

 

[maxiep]

I offer Dame the opportunity to continue to add to his Portland Trail Blazers statistics. If he wishes to begin logging statistics for another team, have his agent to begin lobbying for teams to improve their offers.

 

[kjironman1]

I offer Dame the opportunity to continue to add to his Portland Trail Blazers statistics. If he wishes to begin logging statistics for another team, have his agent to begin lobbying for teams to improve their offers.

Certainly one way to look at it.

 

[julius]

I offer Dame the opportunity to continue to add to his Portland Trail Blazers statistics. If he wishes to begin logging statistics for another team, have his agent to begin lobbying for teams to improve their offers.

Aaron Rodgers should be a cautionary tale for Damian.

He had calf tightness issues off and on last year, and who knows what can happen...

But he's already shit in the bed, and imho, ruined his reputation. So who cares

 

[blazerkor]

I offer Dame the opportunity to continue to add to his Portland Trail Blazers statistics. If he wishes to begin logging statistics for another team, have his agent to begin lobbying for teams to improve their offers.

If Miami's current offer is Herro, Jaquez, Jovic along with their FRPs in 2024, 28 and 30 plus a swap or swaps then I don't think Dame or his camp would want the Heat to give up more. I think any other pieces for instance Martin, hurts Dame's chances at a chip.

I don't know if the Heat have offered all of that at this time but it's possible they could be offering it and Joe is saying that's not enough we need Martin too and in that case I really doubt Dame's camp would be pressuring the Heat to give into Cronin's demand. Herro or whatever he would bring from a third team, Martin or his return from a third or fourth team, Jovic, Jaquez and three unprotected firsts one of which would almost be guaranteed to be late in the first round probably isn't even fair value for Dame considering what we already have seen Durant go for (adjusting for the fact that Durant is obviously the superior player) and what we saw the Jazz get for lesser players even if they are younger.

I guess what I'm saying is maybe Joe is just holding really firm and saying if you're not giving me Jimmy or Bam, I'm taking everything else that isn't nailed down because we won't be getting fair value, so I'm not budging. It's also possible that Miami is really really low balling us holding out on doing what it takes to regain trade access to the 2024 FRP and/or trying to make us choose between their underwhelming prospects (Jaquez and Jovic) and Joe would take the offer I laid out in the first sentence of this post. Who the fuck knows?

 

[Propagandist]

Obviously we are all fatigued by all this Dame stuff—in fact it still has that surreal feel—but why, in the last long while, is it that the life of a Trail Blazer fan involves so many unsatisfactory options, whether it be too many guards on the roster for example or I don’t know overwhelmingly underwhelming trade offers?

 

[Pinwheel1]

If Miami's current offer is Herro, Jaquez, Jovic along with their FRPs in 2024, 28 and 30 plus a swap or swaps then I don't think Dame or his camp would want the Heat to give up more. I think any other pieces for instance Martin, hurts Dame's chances at a chip.

I don't know if the Heat have offered all of that at this time but it's possible they could be offering it and Joe is saying that's not enough we need Martin too and in that case I really doubt Dame's camp would be pressuring the Heat to give into Cronin's demand.

Who the fuck knows?

Well, they do have to offer a little bit more for the salaries to match. But like you say in the last line, who the fuck knows what has been offered.

I am ok with letting them keep Martin because he has 1 year left and I would rather go young with JJjr at the same position who is 20 lbs bigger. The 2024 FRP I bet is a sticking point

 

[Phatguysrule]

I offer Dame the opportunity to continue to add to his Portland Trail Blazers statistics. If he wishes to begin logging statistics for another team, have his agent to begin lobbying for teams to improve their offers.

Yep. This right here.

 

[blazerkor]

Well, they do have to offer a little bit more for the salaries to match. But like you say in the last line, who the fuck knows what has been offered.

I am ok with letting them keep Martin because he has 1 year left and I would rather go young with JJjr at the same position who is 20 lbs bigger. The 2024 FRP I bet is a sticking point

Whenever I think of these deals I tend to think instead of taking on Duncan Robinson it would make more sense for us and for Miami if we sent Nurk with Dame and got Lowry back. I think Lowry is the kind of vet that would be great to have on the bench mentoring Scoot. I think on a lot of nights the Heat have been undersized and I don't think that Thomas Bryant is the answer to that, at least not as good of an answer as Nurk would be.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Whenever I think of these deals I tend to think instead of taking on Duncan Robinson it would make more sense for us and for Miami if we sent Nurk with Dame and got Lowry back. I think Lowry is the kind of vet that would be great to have on the bench mentoring Scoot. I think on a lot of nights the Heat have been undersized and I don't think that Thomas Bryant is the answer to that, at least not as good of an answer as Nurk would be.

Yes, I have come around to the Lowry option, but I bet that the mentoring would only be for about 5 months before we release Lowry so he could join a contending team that may have some injuries at PG. Still, 5 months is better than nothing.