OT Active Shooters in Vegas

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I am still not sure why a measure that will reduce some of the problems is a bad thing. Are there stupid people out there? Sure. Will simple regulation eliminate all bad things? Of course not. Will some lives be saved because of some simple regulations. Very likely.

Doubt it but could be.

People get around all kinds of things. I suppose it could be like how most people license their car in the state they live in but some people cheat using an out of state address.

I have a much lesser opinion of the majority of Americans today, especially the young ones. I know tons of them and hear them talk. Frightening.

If you're ever around a large group of young people see if ANY of them seem aware of what's going on around them. You can stare at them and they won't notice.

 

[MarAzul]

You don't have much to worry about barfo..... you're really far down my list.

 

[PDXFonz]

You don't have much to worry about barfo..... you're really far down my list.

But he is on it?

 

[andalusian]

Doubt it but could be.

People get around all kinds of things. I suppose it could be like how most people license their car in the state they live in but some people cheat using an out of state address.

I have a much lesser opinion of the majority of Americans today, especially the young ones. I know tons of them and hear them talk. Frightening.

If you're ever around a large group of young people see if ANY of them seem aware of what's going on around them. You can stare at them and they won't notice.

My belief is based on the numbers shown above for the discrepancy between homicide rates with firearms between the US and 22 other "high income" countries. It is also influenced by me being around guns for long periods of time and seeing how many accidents happen even with well-trained people and guns - so the idea of idiots with easy-access to them is scary.

I will repeat that I do not believe it will eliminate the problem, but the study mentioned above shows that it will likely help it.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

My belief is based on the numbers shown above for the discrepancy between homicide rates with firearms between the US and 22 other "high income" countries. It is also influenced by me being around guns for long periods of time and seeing how many accidents happen even with well-trained people and guns - so the idea of idiots with easy-access to them is scary.

I will repeat that I do not believe it will eliminate the problem, but the study mentioned above shows that it will likely help it.

I'd like to see less gun deaths. If it works within the law I'm all for it.

 

[MarAzul]

being around guns for long periods of time and seeing how many accidents happen even with well-trained people

Strange. I don't remember seeing a gun accident in all my years.

 

[andalusian]

Strange. I don't remember seeing a gun accident in all my years.

Maybe you served with better people than I did.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gunman-killed-50-las-vegas-150900674.html

Uhh, I'm leaning towards this guy losing all his money.

Winning 40 grand on a slot machine? So what? Doesn't mean he didn't lose hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions.

 

[dviss1]

When a nation is founded on violence, has a long history of internal violence (via the government and its citizenry where the government has looked the other way), and the government is the biggest purveyor of violence the world over - people will always resort to violence. It’s ingrained into the very DNA of this country.

 

[MarAzul]

better people

So it is people that cause the problem.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Maybe you served with better people than I did.

That is a funny statement.

I have actually seen a few who did stupid stuff, and injured themselves. One that stands out was a clown who decided to learn to fast draw. Another was notorious for never checking to see if his gun was loaded.

Mind you, these are the type of people that I would not accept a ride from. Both of these guys were reprimanded. One was discharged, and the other busted and transferred. Just because there are a few inept fools, that could harm someone with an ice cream cone, is no reason to punish or cause harm to the rest of our population.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

When a nation is founded on violence, has a long history of internal violence (via the government and its citizenry where the government has looked the other way), and the government is the biggest purveyor of violence the world over - people will always resort to violence. It’s ingrained into the very DNA of this country.

I think we're crazier than ever. Getting brainwashed by social media, drinking nasty contaminated tap water. Radio waves, Bluetooth, cell phones.

Shit just gets weirder every day.

Seriously, I know YouTube isn't proof but just watch the crazy shit people do. Road rage......just remembered one I saw yesterday........this is a new one to me...

There's a thing called Slap Competitions. It is a thing.

I think it is nuts (and kinda want to enter at the same time)

 

[andalusian]

So it is people that cause the problem.

No, it is the combination of people and guns. Stupid people without guns are a lot less harmful than stupid people with guns. Duh.

 

[andalusian]

That is a funny statement.

I have actually seen a few who did stupid stuff, and injured themselves. One that stands out was a clown who decided to learn to fast draw. Another was notorious for never checking to see if his gun was loaded.

Mind you, these are the type of people that I would not accept a ride from. Both of these guys were reprimanded. One was discharged, and the other busted and transferred. Just because there are a few inept fools, that could harm someone with an ice cream cone, is no reason to punish or cause harm to the rest of our population.

Why is regulation punishment if it helps remove the bad apples from access to dangerous instruments of destruction?

I refer you again to the 2nd amendment. The 3rd word in it is "regulated".

If these are the people that you would not get a ride with - why would you be happy with them having easy access to guns with no restrictions?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Why is regulation punishment if it helps remove the bad apples from access to dangerous instruments of destruction?

I refer you again to the 2nd amendment. The 3rd word in it is "regulated".

If these are the people that you would not get a ride with - why would you be happy with them having easy access to guns with no restrictions?

ya know, I made an honest attempt to provide a little levity, and you want to deliberately be obtuse.

A) We already have regulation.
B) I as well as the service decided that in both cases, these people did not in fact deserve the position that they were in and were relieved. As far as their ability to own a firearm as civilians, they do have that right, just like they have the privilege, presumably, to own and operate a motor vehicle. That has nothing to do with me being "happy" allowing them to access either.

 

[Jade Falcon]

I'm just now hearing about this. Sorry for being so late. Very thankful to hear that Bodyman is okay. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone involved.

Well, in terms of putting politics aside for 12 hours...

That's right....blame the NRA for this shit, and be sure and bring up suppressors (NOT silencers....) to scare more people into your point of view.

Jesus. It's no wonder you lost the election, you stupid cunt.

 

[Jade Falcon]

I can almost guarantee that there are a bunch of lawyers looking to take on some of the victims and/or their families as clients who will be thinking of ways that the Mandalay Bay should have been able to prevent this guy from getting that kind of armament up to his room.

I stay at Mandalay Bay a couple times a year for work. That hotel is massive, so many exits in and out. Trying to figure out how he got that many rifles up to his room unnoticed. A truck? Garment bags? If you ask for one of those gold luggage carts they will just give you one, had to of been how he did it. This is just horrible.

Not necessarily. Nevada, especially around the resort cities, have a lot of machine-gun rental (the guns CANNOT leave the premise, and are owned by the range) places, as well as a lot of shooting ranges that are aimed at enticing out-of-town folks and tourists who may or may not have necessarily ever shot a gun before. I can see the shooter passing himself off as an out-of-towner looking to try out the shooting ranges.

 

[Natebishop3]

But he is on it?

I mean... he's really far down.... next to the guy that put pickles on my burger, even though I asked him not to.

 

[andalusian]

ya know, I made an honest attempt to provide a little levity, and you want to deliberately be obtuse.

A) We already have regulation.

My assertion is that our regulation is not good enough. It takes a lot more to own and drive a car than it is to own and use a gun. That's what I am saying.

B) I as well as the service decided that in both cases, these people did not in fact deserve the position that they were in and were relieved. As far as their ability to own a firearm as civilians, they do have that right, just like they have the privilege, presumably, to own and operate a motor vehicle. That has nothing to do with me being "happy" allowing them to access either.

See, there was better regulation about the fit of these people to operate whatever within the service - and they were found un-fit. All I am saying is that we need better regulation than the one we currently have - with periodic checks and the need to register guns periodically. Just like cars.

 

[barfo]

I mean... he's really far down.... next to the guy that put pickles on my burger, even though I asked him not to.

I stand with pickles. We shall overcome.

barfo

 

[Jade Falcon]

My assertion is that our regulation is not good enough. It takes a lot more to own and drive a car than it is to own and use a gun. That's what I am saying.



See, there was better regulation about the fit of these people to operate guns within the service - and they were found un-fit. All I am saying is that we need better regulation than the one we currently have - with periodic checks and the need to register guns periodically. Just like cars.

I would like to know how all of this was going to stop this shooter.

Relatives of Paddock’s said they were stunned by what happened. Paddock had retired and lived in Mesquite, Tex., for several years before moving to the Nevada town with the same name. Relatives described him as a quiet man, a licensed pilot who liked to gamble. His brother, Eric, said their mother spoke to the FBI.

“She said, ‘I don’t understand why my son did this,'” Eric Paddock said Monday morning outside his home in Orlando. While his brother had some handguns, Eric Paddock but was shocked by the weaponry police described in Las Vegas.

Eric Paddock said he did not know of his brother having any mental illness, alcohol or drug problems. When he spoke to the FBI, Eric Paddock said he showed FBI agents three years of text messages from his brother, including one that mentioning winning $250,000 at a casino. Stephen Paddock played “high stakes video poker,” Eric said, adding that he did not have any information suggesting the 64-year-old gunman had gambling debts or financial issues.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/at-least-59-killed-in-las-vegas-shooting-rampage-more-than-500-others-injured/ar-AAsM6kd?li=BBnbkly

You cannot stop a quiet killer until they kill. It's a sad and unfortunate fact.

I do agree that what we can do is expand mental health counseling and crisis centers in this country, as well as update and revamp the mental health system to a modern one. But even then, you can't force someone to seek counseling or therapy unless it is court-ordered. And there are strict laws and requirements in place for that to happen.

 

[andalusian]

I would like to know how all of this was going to stop this shooter.

I do not know if it would have and it might not have - but I refer you to the study mentioned earlier in this thread about fire-arms violent deaths in the US compared to other high-income countries and suggest that I believe it would help to get us closer to other countries (good in this instance).

I believe this was answered earlier in the thread.

I do agree that what we can do is expand mental health counseling and crisis centers in this country, as well as update and revamp the mental health system to a modern one. But even then, you can't force someone to seek counseling or therapy unless it is court-ordered. And there are strict laws and requirements in place for that to happen.

Sure. That's part of the solution. Another is making it harder for unstable people to get their hands on these kinds of weapons.

I will repeat it once again because the argument seems to always be "it will not stop all of them" - the idea is reduce them. There is no silver bullet to stopping these things (pun unintended) - but putting our head in the sand and claiming that there is nothing to be done and some increased/better regulation is not worth it is, imho, a folly.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Natebishop3]

It takes a lot more to own and drive a car than it is to own and use a gun.

If we're being honest, I think it's way too easy to own and drive a car in the US.

There are WAY too many morons on the road. It's a lot more difficult to get a license in some countries in Europe. With that said, I personally do not believe that owning a car is tantamount to preserving gun rights in this country.

 

[Jade Falcon]

I do not know if it would have and it might not have - but I refer you to the study mentioned earlier in this thread about fire-arms violent deaths in the US compared to other high-income countries and suggest that I believe it would help to get us closer to other countries (good in this instance).

I believe this was answered earlier in the thread.

We're not other countries, so this is irrelevant. And if you think the American people, some 160 million gun owners including myself, are going to tolerate a mass gun turn-in or confiscation, then you are out of your mind.

Considering that there's over 3oo million guns in this country and 160 million gun owners, I'd say we're doing okay. Things like this are very unfortunate; I'm not trying to make light of them. But they are not the norm.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Jade Falcon]

If we're being honest, I think it's way too easy to own and drive a car in the US.

There are WAY too many morons on the road. It's a lot more difficult to get a license in some countries in Europe. With that said, I personally do not believe that owning a car is tantamount to preserving gun rights in this country.

This. I can go down the street right now and buy some junker for $500 without a license. And even if I'm stopped, if I'm not suspended, then the worst I can get is a citation for no license/insurance/registration.

Try taking a legally-owned pistol from one state to another without a permit, or a recognized permit, and find out what happens if you're caught. Here's a hint: it's not a citation. It's handcuffs.

 

[Natebishop3]

I want to highlight the difference between car ownership/usage and gun ownership/usage.

In Oregon, I'd say most people probably drive every single day. You go out, in public, and operate a huge piece of machinery that can kill people. Every day, you're putting yourself and others at risk. We require insurance, a license, and registration so that people can legally put themselves and others at risk almost every single day.

Many people own a gun and never take it out. It sits in their closet, or in their dresser, and it never see the light of day. If they do take it out, they cannot legally transport it with rounds in the weapon unless they have a license. They have to exit the city limits to operate that weapon, or take it to a legally insured and licensed range. You cannot legally discharge your weapon in the city limits unless it is self defense or you're in one of those establishments. If you want to get a concealed handgun license, you have to go through a class, get finger printed, and carry a license.

So as far as I can tell, aside from insurance (which many CHL users are starting to acquire), there isn't much difference between guns and cars. To further illustrate this point, someone can drive a car on their own property all they want without a license. Without insurance. Without registration. If it never leaves your property, it's completely legal to own and operate a vehicle without any of those things.

We allow felons to own and operate cars. We do not allow felons to own guns.

 

[andalusian]

We're not other countries, so this is irrelevant. And if you think the American people, some 160 million gun owners including myself, are going to tolerate a mass gun turn-in or confiscation, then you are out of your mind.

Considering that there's over 3oo million guns in this country and 160 million gun owners, I'd say we're doing okay. Things like this are very unfortunate; I'm not trying to make light of them. But they are not the norm.

I guess that this is one way of looking at it - there is no problem, nothing could be done to make things better, things will never change. We were not other countries when women did not have voting rights or racial equality did not exist - these things changed as well, because, let's face it - change is inevitable.

Please read my answers above, I am not against gun ownership, I am not advocating confiscation - I am advocating better regulation that address real problems. Just because we are not other countries does not mean we should not strive to learn from them and be better where we need to be.

 

[Jade Falcon]

I am advocating better regulation that address real problems.

Then you better address handguns, not AR-15s. And if you think a handgun with an extended magazine can't cause just as much havoc as an AR-15, then just ask Jared Loughner.

Nobody is saying that we should continue to put our heads in the sand. But...blaming guns for this is the equivalent of trying to fight a million-acre wildfire with a watering can. That effort can be put to better use improving our mental health system in this country.