Religion Americans Skeptical Of God But Think Heaven Is Real, Somehow

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crowTrobot said:
Our species doesn't have a plan to cause its own extinction. A few psychopathic individuals might.

The vast majority of humans are rooting for our species to survive, both instinctively and intellectually. There's obviously no intrinsic desire in us to cause our own self destruction.
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yet you have to teach your child not to lie, and how to share, because we are inherently bad, we are taught morals as we grow up, we do not naturally do the right thing until after we are taught what is right.
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
Study other religions, including the modern versions of christianity, you will find they all require you DO something. From jihad to enter paradise, to meditating on nothingness until you reach nirvana, all religion says DO. Reading the bible however, you learn Christ fulfilled the DO for you, and therefore your religion is DONE. There is no need for religion, and that was ultimately why I chose to believe. I can dig freebies, I cant get on board with passing offering plates, protesting gays, singing shitty songs, flopping on the floor, tax exempt building projects, and tax exempt paid preachers however.
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I'm going to take your word for it that Christ took care of it all for me, so I'll skip the studying and also the believing, and go straight to the doing nothing.

barfo
 
crowTrobot said:
Because you aren't actually conceptualizing anything.



This is pretty standard religious/cult double speak. The experience always seems to be conveniently impossible to describe to someone who hasn't had it.
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Ha! Well you do know you get no reward.

Oh btw, I did describe, you seem to have difficulty understanding (in any language) from several points of view.
 
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DaLincolnJones said:
Naw, Mar. The entire book is needed to have a complete understanding. Yeah, the game changed when Jesus died for our sins. This created a new covenant with mankind.
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Agreed. That is why it is called the old testament, and new testament. There are so many types of christ and pictures of his coming that if it is just a story book and not god inspired those had to be some pretty incredible writers. It took reading the whole thing through a few times to conclude it was just too complex for a couple of guys to get together and put it together. I did not get this same conclusion after reading the Koran.
 
barfo said:
I'm going to take your word for it that Christ took care of it all for me, so I'll skip the studying and also the believing, and go straight to the doing nothing.

barfo
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Awesome I hope to see you at the after party
 
DaLincolnJones said:
understanding.
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Well I will take your word as what you believe. I wouldn't think you need to accept the entire old testament, to be a Christian, but then I am not, as I already said. But from my view, the old Torah
pretty much defines the way it was, not as it should be.

Actually if you read the book, Who Wrote the Bible. It speculates most was written by the Rabbis (the tribe that owned no land). Some times the same story is told from two different perspectives, one by a Rabbi from Judah and another by a Rabbi of Israel. Many more nuances are put forth.

All interesting stuff but not necessarily truth. But then, some do take it that way.
 
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barfo said:
So then we have to conclude that the Virgin Mary had no soul.

Was it because she was a virgin? Or some other reason?

barfo
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You are doing the concluding. Continue with the why you did it?
 
MarAzul said:
Well I will take your word as what you believe. I wouldn't think you need to accept the entire old testament, to be a Christian, but then I am not, as I already said. But from my view, the old Torah
pretty much defines the way it was, not as it should be.
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The Torah has so many types and pictures of Christ to me as a christian it helps strengthen my belief that Jesus was who he claimed to be.

But ever since I read the book of romans extensively ive really grown tired of the debates. Romans says that believers are predestined to be believers, so nothing I do or say will change someone's mind, it's all up to God. That's why I always say im blown away he chose me, because if I was God id look at me and be like fuck that ass hole, he goes to hell.
 
MarAzul said:
Oh btw, I did describe, you seem to have difficulty understanding (in any language) from several points of view.
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"The immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life"

"an unchanging personal principle that continues in time infinitely."

"the true self beyond the biological, the essence of the individual"


Phrases like these are just vague circular woo-woo speak and don't help anyone understand or conceptualize anything. Including you.
 
crowTrobot said:
Including you.
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You are of course, able to speak for yourself, and you are convincing, you can't get there.
But you must admit, you totally lack the capacity to speak for anyone else.
 
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MarAzul said:
You are doing the concluding. Continue with the why you did it?
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Because everyone knows that Madonna is a material girl.

barfo
 
I'll tell you guys my "religious views", cuz I guess I'm a reflection of the younger population. These are solely my own beliefs. Because of that, it may sound crazy but I believe it answers a lot of questions.

The human mind only comprehends 3 dimensions. X (Right/Left), Y (Up/Down), Z (Forwards/Backwords). Every direction is a combination of the 3. XYZ is essentially all that we perceive to be around us. I believe time is the 4th dimension (I won't elaborate) and I believe there is a 5th, which is something like what some would consider heaven. It's a part of space much like X,Y,Z, but we just can't possibly comprehend it while were living.

We experience the world through our body, which is tied into the first 4 dimensions. Our soul however exists in that 5th dimension. That's why it's impossible for the living to measure a soul. Our soul is connected to the world through our living body. However, when our body dies, that connection is broken.

Sometimes souls have a connection with the "real world" after their bodies die, which explains ghosts and why some places are "haunted". I believe that that connection wears over time.

Some living also have a special sense for the 4th and 5th dimensions, which explains psychics.

I believe in what is called reincarnation, but only once the soul has transfered completely over to the 5th dimension. The actions and experiences that one has over their previous lifetime has a way of tying their soul into the fabric of the "real world" dimensions.

That leads me to my next belief, and that is that Christianity is a representation that was formulated to help the living understand the 5th dimension. Other religions have other bits and parts to them that represent the 5th dimension.

Lastly (and probably insane sounding to most), I believe the Universe is the extent of the first 5 dimensions. The universe repels others like it in a plane of nothingness, which could be called the 6th dimension. I believe "pure" souls can survive in the 6th dimension while others can't. I believe they can travel there through gateways called black holes. Once there is enough pure souls, they have the energy to create new universes (Big Bang).

Through all that, I don't believe in a "God". However, I do believe there's a few select souls that have the power to influence the real world in godlike ways.

I guess that relates to the premise of this whole thread.
 
I think after death, we are where we were before we were conceived. Gone, poof, not around, non-existent.
 
To VanillaGorilla:

Saw your post before it got deleted, and I got a question for you

How does being told what to believe make your beliefs more valid and less "utter nonsense" than the beliefs I formulated on my own?
 
That's why I posted ask that through. Just to see what kind of reactions I got. Because one thing I don't agree with is when someone discredits another religion because it's different from there's. It's wrong to do that when it comes to people and their skin color, sexual orientation and even their personalities, but why is that widely accepted when it comes to their beliefs?
 
MarAzul said:
Geez! Maybe I am just slow tonight, but I know nothing of Christ in the Old Testament.
Except for the coming Messiah, in prophecy.
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Jonah for example, spends 3 days in the belly of the whale, comes back. Christ was in the grave 3 days before rising.

Abraham is asked to sacrifice his son, when his son asks dad where is the lamb, Abraham responds God will provide himself a lamb. Then right before he plunges the dagger God says stop and there is a lamb. I always lover that line, "God will provide himself a lamb" because Christ is God in the flesh and was called the lamb of God, so he literally provided himself as the lamb. Tons more pictures and types, of course Jonah isnt part of the Torah but it is old testament.

Thats why I concluded 66 books written over the span of about 1400 years with so much imagery, accurate prophecy, and types just fits too well not to be inspired.
 
BonesJones said:
That's why I posted ask that through. Just to see what kind of reactions I got. Because one thing I don't agree with is when someone discredits another religion because it's different from there's. It's wrong to do that when it comes to people and their skin color, sexual orientation and even their personalities, but why is that widely accepted when it comes to their beliefs?
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Why does someone have to agree with you to accept you? My best friend isnt a christian but he's still my best friend, and I see more good qualities in him than most "christians" I know. Of course I hope he experiences faith some day but it's not my job to force feed it on him.

Just because I think religions are false does not mean I hate the people who believe in them. Just because I think homosexuality is a sin does not mean I hate homosexuals. To me all sin is the same, and ive broken all 10 of the commandments, so I am no better than anyone. I also see a need for separation of church and state and dont have a problem with homosexuals being married legally. I dont believe my faith can be forced on anyone and I dont believe forcing my beliefs on others is how christianity works. Studying the book of Romans in depth will squash all ones need to do religious works.

At the same time, forcing me to disregard my beliefs isnt acceptable to me either. If it came down to renounce my faith or be killed, id laugh as "they" pulled the trigger.

A very freeing realization I had was God does not need me or anyone else to fulfill his plan, he's in complete control. I'm more than happy to share my beliefs with others who ask, but thats where my evangelism stops, God is more than capable of doing the rest if he pleases.
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
Why does someone have to agree with you to accept you? My best friend isnt a christian but he's still my best friend, and I see more good qualities in him than most "christians" I know. Of course I hope he experiences faith some day but it's not my job to force feed it on him.

Just because I think religions are false does not mean I hate the people who believe in them. Just because I think homosexuality is a sin does not mean I hate homosexuals. To me all sin is the same, and ive broken all 10 of the commandments, so I am no better than anyone. I also see a need for separation of church and state and dont have a problem with homosexuals being married legally. I dont believe my faith can be forced on anyone and I dont believe forcing my beliefs on others is how christianity works. Studying the book of Romans in depth will squash all ones need to do religious works.

At the same time, forcing me to disregard my beliefs isnt acceptable to me either. If it came down to renounce my faith or be killed, id laugh as "they" pulled the trigger.

A very freeing realization I had was God does not need me or anyone else to fulfill his plan, he's in complete control. I'm more than happy to share my beliefs with others who ask, but thats where my evangelism stops, God is more than capable of doing the rest if he pleases.
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See I have no problem and respect people like that and I feel the same way. My post is more towards those who look down upon others just because their beliefs are different.
 
BonesJones said:
I'll tell you guys my "religious views", cuz I guess I'm a reflection of the younger population. These are solely my own beliefs. Because of that, it may sound crazy but I believe it answers a lot of questions.

The human mind only comprehends 3 dimensions. X (Right/Left), Y (Up/Down), Z (Forwards/Backwords). Every direction is a combination of the 3. XYZ is essentially all that we perceive to be around us. I believe time is the 4th dimension (I won't elaborate) and I believe there is a 5th, which is something like what some would consider heaven. It's a part of space much like X,Y,Z, but we just can't possibly comprehend it while were living.

We experience the world through our body, which is tied into the first 4 dimensions. Our soul however exists in that 5th dimension. That's why it's impossible for the living to measure a soul. Our soul is connected to the world through our living body. However, when our body dies, that connection is broken.

Sometimes souls have a connection with the "real world" after their bodies die, which explains ghosts and why some places are "haunted". I believe that that connection wears over time.

Some living also have a special sense for the 4th and 5th dimensions, which explains psychics.

I believe in what is called reincarnation, but only once the soul has transfered completely over to the 5th dimension. The actions and experiences that one has over their previous lifetime has a way of tying their soul into the fabric of the "real world" dimensions.

That leads me to my next belief, and that is that Christianity is a representation that was formulated to help the living understand the 5th dimension. Other religions have other bits and parts to them that represent the 5th dimension.

Lastly (and probably insane sounding to most), I believe the Universe is the extent of the first 5 dimensions. The universe repels others like it in a plane of nothingness, which could be called the 6th dimension. I believe "pure" souls can survive in the 6th dimension while others can't. I believe they can travel there through gateways called black holes. Once there is enough pure souls, they have the energy to create new universes (Big Bang).

Through all that, I don't believe in a "God". However, I do believe there's a few select souls that have the power to influence the real world in godlike ways.

I guess that relates to the premise of this whole thread.
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I agree there are more dimensions and I also agree the soul is part of another dimension. I also believe the "spirit of God" one receives at salvation is in another dimension as well as the fallen angels and Lucifer himself. I think angels and demons can manifest themselves in our visible dimensions and I believe that explains ghosts, aliens, ect.

See, we believe a lot of the same we just have different conclusions. i believe i am right in my conclusions, you believe you are right in yours, doesnt mean we have to fight or hate eachother because of it. I dont see a problem with discussion, I find it most enjoyable actually.
 
BonesJones said:
See I have no problem and respect people like that and I feel the same way. My post is more towards those who look down upon others just because their beliefs are different.
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That's why i always say i hate religion, especially modern "christianity." No where does Jesus say kill others or fight people over beliefs. He says love thine enemy. I believe you can have a civil disagreement and still show love and kindness towards someone you disagree with.

Thats why I stay away from church. The last service I attended a guest preacher was giving an entire sermon on how evil muslims are and how they must be stopped. When he started talking about their beards and their towels on their heads I stood up, turned to the attending audiences and said this is how a holocaust happens, I calmly walked out and never went back.
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
That's why i always say i hate religion, especially modern "christianity." No where does Jesus say kill others or fight people over beliefs. He says love thine enemy. I believe you can have a civil disagreement and still show love and kindness towards someone you disagree with.

Thats why I stay away from church. The last service I attended a guest preacher was giving an entire sermon on how evil muslims are and how they must be stopped. When he started talking about their beards and their towels on their heads I stood up, turned to the attending audiences and said this is how a holocaust happens, I calmly walked out and never went back.
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Haha I don't know why I laughed because that is so true. I agree with youre posts. That's why when someone asks me about my beliefs I say that I don't believe in organized religion just because of the divisions it creates and the people who kill for it.
 
There are so many different beliefs in this thread that aren't connected to any possible notion of reason. I understand saying I feel there is something more, I understand saying that there is no evidence of anything so curtains is most likely. I don't really understand conjuring up long and detailed explanations with no possible way to ascertain if any portion of that could have even a modicum of validity.
 
Further said:
There are so many different beliefs in this thread that aren't connected to any possible notion of reason.
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All derived from some combination of personally modified religious tenets and wishful thinking.

What's funny is there is potential evidence (from QM) for things that are just as wild as anyone has claimed here, such as infinite universes and infinite versions of us actually existing. Unfortunately even if that's true we only get to live as one of those.
 
rasheedfan2005 said:
Jonah for example, spends 3 days in the belly of the whale, comes back. Christ was in the grave 3 days before rising.

Abraham is asked to sacrifice his son, when his son asks dad where is the lamb, Abraham responds God will provide himself a lamb. Then right before he plunges the dagger God says stop and there is a lamb. I always lover that line, "God will provide himself a lamb" because Christ is God in the flesh and was called the lamb of God, so he literally provided himself as the lamb. Tons more pictures and types, of course Jonah isnt part of the Torah but it is old testament.

Thats why I concluded 66 books written over the span of about 1400 years with so much imagery, accurate prophecy, and types just fits too well not to be inspired.
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I see. You no doubt recognize connections better than me.
 
I see Einstein mentioned.

Ha!
"I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

Another thought attributed to Einstein;

"Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death."

Taken out of context, but worth of a stand alone thought in my view, and I have remembered this for some years now. I alluded to in a prior post this thread, our mission here is to not to prepair for heaven, but to learn enough to avoid Hell while we are here.

Einstein took several positions during his lifetime, not at all unusual for many of us.
He claimed to be an Atheist.
He claimed to be an Agnostic
He claimed to be a Pantheist.

He put down the idea of an individual surviving the death of his body, for feeble souls through fear or egotism.
But later he admires Spinoza and his idea of the soul.

Einstein was a Physicist, any progress he made in the spirtual thinking was probably due to others like Spinoza and Kurt Godel.
 
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