Politics another reason for comprehensive immigration reform

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bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Oh yeah. It was more like 9 or 10 years ago.

I know the martian invasion of 2011 made us all rethink our belief systems.
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Only the feeble minded believe in a Martian invasion.
 
lawai'a said:
it is sad, and our track record for nation building isn't very good recently. i think that the examples that our own politicians set makes it difficult to be taken seriously when we rail about corruption and institutionalized exploitation in our foreign policy. privatization is difficult in the region too, with their own tendencies to nationalize industry for social justice goals. without any tax base it seems impossible to provide the services and government institutions that might provide change in central america.
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On that note I read that Russia is taking a serious interest in developing Honduras....China is also poised to build factories in Mexico....just what America needed....Russian and Chinese influence south of the border...but we'll have a long fence!!!!!!!!!
 
jonnyboy said:
Concrete, drywall, framing, painting, oilfield, roofing, masonry, industrial cleaning, manufacturing, agriculture and the list goes on and on and on. All used to be viable sources of income before the flood of cheap labor. Going back to school isn't an option for most people, college isnt much more than a racket nowdaws anyway. Most college graduates I know bartend or wait tables. Not exactly a fair trade for a $30,000 degree. Why do you feel legal citizens should be forced to pay for Cracker Jack college degrees in order to compete with non citizens who dont go to college?
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Be sure to get a root canal from someone without one of those cracker jack degrees.....sure you save 30k if you couldn't get a scholarship but it's more than likely that 30k will be profit from being the boss instead of 10 bucks an hour to work for him/her. Degrees are only useless if the students getting them waste them and their 4 years partying...degrees offer you the opportunity to achieve goals...they are a map, not the lazy way out. Anybody not in a professional field requiring one can still get rich as an electrician, plumber or even sleep with a president....choices
 
riverman said:
Be sure to get a root canal from someone without one of those cracker jack degrees.....sure you save 30k if you couldn't get a scholarship but it's more than likely that 30k will be profit from being the boss instead of 10 bucks an hour to work for him/her. Degrees are only useless if the students getting them waste them and their 4 years partying...degrees offer you the opportunity to achieve goals...they are a map, not the lazy way out. Anybody not in a professional field requiring one can still get rich as an electrician, plumber or even sleep with a president....choices
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Only 27 percent of graduates work in a field pertaining to their degree. Obviously specific fields (dentistry, as per your remark) require specific knowledge and legitimate qualifications (that usually come in the form of a degree). On the other hand though, there are hundreds of bullshit degrees that colleges should be ashamed of even offering, and many of them lead to perpetual debt for those who aqcuired them. Im not making shit up, I promise. There is a huge student loan debt problem in this country, people aren't making enough money to even pay them off. When everybody has a generally described degree, the pool of potential employees becomes flooded and the degrees themselves cheapen. Simple supply and demand. Employers are starting to realize that people with actual work experience and ethic tend to perform equally or even better than green graduates or interns.
 
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jonnyboy said:
Only 27 percent of graduates work in a field pertaining to their degree. Obviously specific fields (dentistry, as per your remark) require specific knowledge and legitimate qualifications) that usually come in the form of a degree). On the other hand though, there are hundreds of bullshit degrees that colleges should be ashamed of even offering, and many of them lead to perpetual debt for those who aqcuired them. Im not making shit up, I promise. There is a huge student loan debt problem in this country.
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No doubt colleges could be more upfront about the economic impact of choosing a degree; on the other hand, at least some of the blame has to be on the student and their parents as well, if getting a job is the primary goal of getting the degree and a poor choice has been made.

barfo
 
barfo said:
No doubt colleges could be more upfront about the economic impact of choosing a degree; on the other hand, at least some of the blame has to be on the student and their parents as well, if getting a job is the primary goal of getting the degree and a poor choice has been made.

barfo
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Its hard to blame people who've been indoctrinated into believing college is the correct path to take in life. Most of them are doing what they've been told is the right thing, and getting duped by an increasingly predatory system. Colleges will not say no to money and thats a huge problem.
 
jonnyboy said:
Only 27 percent of graduates work in a field pertaining to their degree. Obviously specific fields (dentistry, as per your remark) require specific knowledge and legitimate qualifications (that usually come in the form of a degree). On the other hand though, there are hundreds of bullshit degrees that colleges should be ashamed of even offering, and many of them lead to perpetual debt for those who aqcuired them. Im not making shit up, I promise. There is a huge student loan debt problem in this country, people aren't making enough money even pay them off. When everybody has a generally desribed degree, the pool of potential employees becomes flooded and the degrees themselves cheapness. Simple supply and demand. Employers are starting to realize that people with actual work experience and ethic tend to perform equally or even better than green graduates or interns.
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Not as simplistic as that. When i got out of college i went to work for a company as an entry level business education. I drove truck for 2 years so i would in your 73% category, but within 2 years i was in charge of the warehouse workers and drivers most of who had been there longer than me. In another few yeaars i was promoted to outside sales so within 2 years i was working in a field of what i got my education for and worked there for over 27 years.

Did you go to colllege?
 
CupWizier said:
Not as simplistic as that. When i got out of college i went to work for a company as an entry level business education. I drove truck for 2 years so i would in your 73% category, but within 2 years i was in charge of the warehouse workers and drivers most of who had been there longer than me. In another few yeaars i was promoted to outside sales so within 2 years i was working in a field of what i got my education for and worked there for over 27 years.

Did you go to colllege?
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That would make you one of the 27%. Thats good for you but doesn't help the other 73%.

I do not have a college degree, no.
 
U guys know 2 kids died by murder cuz border patrol?


I was gonna be mad and then I realized Americans kill their kids all the time so this is no big deal amirite?
 
jonnyboy said:
Its hard to blame people who've been indoctrinated into believing college is the correct path to take in life. Most of them are doing what they've been told is the right thing, and getting duped by an increasingly predatory system. Colleges will not say no to money and thats a huge problem.
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Who does say no to money?

It's not so hard to say people who make bad life decisions are to blame for those decisions. It happens to pretty much everyone at some point, unnecessary college is just one way to screw up.

Although I know some people who say they could have been just as successful without college, I haven't met many that regretted going to college. Of course the debt load in my day was low or non-existent - college is much more expensive nowadays.

barfo
 
jonnyboy said:
Its hard to blame people who've been indoctrinated into believing college is the correct path to take in life. Most of them are doing what they've been told is the right thing, and getting duped by an increasingly predatory system. Colleges will not say no to money and thats a huge problem.
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It's not for everyone...we all know people take jobs they don't like or choose the wrong career..that's old news. If you do go for advanced education you have to be doing it with a goal....people live entire lives without knowing what their goals really are...college is where you can learn how to learn and apply it if you use it correctly...my degree gave me twice the salary overseas of what someone without one could get. If your kid is brainwashed about what college means to their future...by no means should they go until they have a grip on how they want to use it. Basketball players often go back to get a degree if they opt out early. The Navy paid for my degree....my son got a full scholarship with his grades...still had to work part time but graduated with honors after 4 years without debt. It's how you plan it....nobody is a victim of education unless they paid Trump University 30k...community college is free in many places
 
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jonnyboy said:
Its hard to blame people who've been indoctrinated into believing college is the correct path to take in life. Most of them are doing what they've been told is the right thing, and getting duped by an increasingly predatory system. Colleges will not say no to money and thats a huge problem.
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They should also be told that getting that degree should entail some really hard work
 
jonnyboy said:
That would make you one of the 27%. Thats good for you but doesn't help the other 73%.

I do not have a college degree, no.
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No, I was part of the 73%. I didn't go to truck driving school so those first 2 years I would be in the 73% statistic. My point is, you may not get a job in what you went to school for in the first few years, but it doesn't mean it eventually won't pay off thus that statistic would be skewed.
 
CupWizier said:
No, I was part of the 73%. I didn't go to truck driving school so those first 2 years I would be in the 73% statistic. My point is, you may not get a job in what you went to school for in the first few years, but it doesn't mean it eventually won't pay off thus that statistic would be skewed.
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your chances of eventually getting the job and paying down your debt might be decreased by the work visa program, that if in your chosen field, foreign workers with the same degree and experience are competing for the same job, and are willing to take less. isn't all about blue collar labor jobs.
 
lawai'a said:
your chances of eventually getting the job and paying down your debt might be decreased by the work visa program, that if in your chosen field, foreign workers with the same degree and experience are competing for the same job, and are willing to take less. isn't all about blue collar labor jobs.
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I just went through many months of heart specialists and techs when my heart failed...I saw half a dozen doctors...first a black American woman general practice...a jewish American doctor...Egyptian heart specialist ...a Swedish doctor..an Indian doctor did my cancer screening .and the heart surgeon who's the highest paid of all was from Iran....my experience is that these guys don't have a sliding pay scale. In these cases I'd have to say that the immigrants were the highest paid of the lot. I was really impressed with my heart surgeon....worth every penny..the guy saved my life..I don't buy that he got his position from accepting less money than any other heart surgeon...but this was just my own personal recent experience...my bill showed most of them getting 499 per visit whether the visit was 10 minutes or an hour and a half...the surgeon was more expensive
 
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riverman said:
I just went through many months of heart specialists and techs when my heart failed...I saw half a dozen doctors...first a black American woman general practice...a jewish American doctor...Egyptian heart specialist ...a Swedish doctor..an Indian doctor did my cancer screening .and the heart surgeon who's the highest paid of all was from Iran....my experience is that these guys don't have a sliding pay scale. In these cases I'd have to say that the immigrants were the highest paid of the lot. I was really impressed with my heart surgeon....worth every penny..the guy saved my life..I don't buy that he got his position from accepting less money than any other heart surgeon...but this was just my own personal recent experience...my bill showed most of them getting 499 per visit whether the visit was 10 minutes or an hour and a half...the surgeon was more expensive
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Glad you're doing ok. I think "chosen" field is very important.

As in lucky your chosen field doesn't have companies like Disney make you train your imported replacement.
 
riverman said:
I just went through many months of heart specialists and techs when my heart failed...I saw half a dozen doctors...first a black American woman general practice...a jewish American doctor...Egyptian heart specialist ...a Swedish doctor..an Indian doctor did my cancer screening .and the heart surgeon who's the highest paid of all was from Iran....my experience is that these guys don't have a sliding pay scale. In these cases I'd have to say that the immigrants were the highest paid of the lot. I was really impressed with my heart surgeon....worth every penny..the guy saved my life..I don't buy that he got his position from accepting less money than any other heart surgeon...but this was just my own personal recent experience...my bill showed most of them getting 499 per visit whether the visit was 10 minutes or an hour and a half...the surgeon was more expensive
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i too am happy for your recovery. the articles i cited didn't make any referance to the medical professions nor blue color labor, and i don't advocate completely doing away with work visas at all.
what i take exception to is examined in the tech industry where the studies show that wages are negatively impacted by an industry sponsored lobbying of congress for foriegn workers that do keep wages down.
 
lawai'a said:
i too am happy for your recovery. the articles i cited didn't make any referance to the medical professions nor blue color labor, and i don't advocate completely doing away with work visas at all.
what i take exception to is examined in the tech industry where the studies show that wages are negatively impacted by an industry sponsored lobbying of congress for foriegn workers that do keep wages down.
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My mother recently retired after decades of being a medical transcriptionist.
As early as I can remember they outsourced all the easy stuff to India. Records such as "the patient has the flu"

Technical stuff like riverman's heart surgery stuff my mom did. She would know what all of the terms in his chart mean, not just be able to type it.

I never asked her how much she made until she retired. Her most was 45 thousand dollars she said. She worked weekends for fucks sake.

She did the Blazers stuff for a while but she would never tell me anything about it. Damn ethics.
 
Thanks guys...having been a foreigner employed in another country puts my spin on things "American" a bit differently. Been through the process of getting work permit, etc....even got a driver's license printed in a language I couldn't read. My wife went through it here...People usually hire the best person for the job no matter where they're from in my experience. My wife can make way more money in her homeland than here..but she loves Oregon for reasons other than money
 
riverman said:
I just went through many months of heart specialists and techs when my heart failed...I saw half a dozen doctors...first a black American woman general practice...a jewish American doctor...Egyptian heart specialist ...a Swedish doctor..an Indian doctor did my cancer screening .and the heart surgeon who's the highest paid of all was from Iran....my experience is that these guys don't have a sliding pay scale. In these cases I'd have to say that the immigrants were the highest paid of the lot. I was really impressed with my heart surgeon....worth every penny..the guy saved my life..I don't buy that he got his position from accepting less money than any other heart surgeon...but this was just my own personal recent experience...my bill showed most of them getting 499 per visit whether the visit was 10 minutes or an hour and a half...the surgeon was more expensive
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I think everyone in here. 100% of us, are glad you got excellent care.
I'd bet that all of us continue to hope you get excellent care in the future, also.
I hope you eat right and get whatever physical exercise your body can tolerate.
One of my doctors once said there is no ailment that isn't better when you exercise. I have to agree.
 
riverman said:
Thanks guys...having been a foreigner employed in another country puts my spin on things "American" a bit differently. Been through the process of getting work permit, etc....even got a driver's license printed in a language I couldn't read. My wife went through it here...People usually hire the best person for the job no matter where they're from in my experience. My wife can make way more money in her homeland than here..but she loves Oregon for reasons other than money
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I've seen women at Tektronix get jobs that men were more qualified for. It was difficult for me to adjust to because I believe women need a push in life just as I believe Black-Americans need that helping hand.
I also saw a man get a job as an engineer who previously worked with me as a technician. He was assigned to support me and the group of technicians that I worked with. He tried to explain to me how a circuit worked where I was having a problem. It was immediately obvious that he had no idea how the circuit worked because he was so technically weak. I explained how the circuit was supposed to work and then told him to his face that he had no idea how the circuit worked. It was a little bit embarrassing that I had to train him. He left without saying a word and I figured out a solution to my problem.
You may be right most of the time but there is a large minority of times when you are not correct about this.
I think we all have a tendency to think that people all behave perfectly rationally and that's not the case. In fact in business the irrational promotion issue is called Good Ol' Boy cronyism.
 
lawai'a said:
One of my doctors once said there is no ailment that isn't better when you exercise. I have to agree.
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What about compound fractures, heart attacks, and gaping abdominal wounds?

barfo
 
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