Ant 4/100

[Ed O]

You know what, if we get another starting piece (obviously a forward) in a trade, I don't really give a fuck I guess. Overpay everyone but if we're going to do that Joe better be damn sure that we're competing for championships not play-in games.

But we're not gonna.

Which is why I advocated trading Dame and rebuilding. Our best/only young talent was just about to get paid big money without being able to prove he's worth it, so we're crossing our fingers he is.

(Our other young talent in Little has proven even less.)

I feel like I've swung from optimism about this team to more "meh" and spending this much on Ant and extending Dane... it just doesn't make winning very viable with the rest of this roster.

 

[Phatguysrule]

They aren't. But Powell is making quite a bit less and everyone was hammering that as a bad deal.

Not a bad deal if Ant is getting 4/100 and Brunson is getting 4/110

Powell wasn't a bad deal if he was going to be useful to us, but he was in the way, and age made it an undesirable deal. There were other guys teams could get who were younger, taller, or made less.

There wasn't a market for Powell.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Powell wasn't a bad deal if he was going to be useful to us, but he was in the way, and age made it an undesirable deal. There were other guys teams could get that were younger or made less.

There wasn't a market for Powell.

He isn't that old. And we gave away a 20 ppg scorer for nothing.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

But we're not gonna.

Which is why I advocated trading Dame and rebuilding. Our best/only young talent was just about to get paid big money without being able to prove he's worth it, so we're crossing our fingers he is.

(Our other young talent in Little has proven even less.)

I feel like I've swung from optimism about this team to more "meh" and spending this much on Ant and extending Dane... it just doesn't make winning very viable with the rest of this roster.

What if management loves Dame and told him we will do everything we can to put a contender together for him over the next two years, but if we are not looking like a top four seed the trade deadline after next, we will shop the league to gauge the return from a team he chooses and look to go into a full rebuild with Ant as the only really high paid guy on the roster, sharpe taking form and the haul of picks from trading Dame, I could see giving it two years and then pulling the plug and we could still be In decent shape for the future.

And my middle name is run on sentence.

 

[julius]

There's more to a game than scoring.

Ok, so what in his game did he "struggle" for 2 months then?

His shooting was good, his assists were good...
maybe, and I might be going out on a limb here, the person who said he "sucked for 2 months" as a starter might be full of it?

 

[Phatguysrule]

He isn't that old. And we gave away a 20 ppg scorer for nothing.

He's too old for that contract and his playing style and size.

Again, if we didn't have Hart it would be fine. But nobody was going to give us anything of value for Powell.

 

[TBpup]

Ok, so what in his game did he "struggle" for 2 months then?

His shooting was good, his assists were good...
maybe, and I might be going out on a limb here, the person who said he "sucked for 2 months" as a starter might be full of it?

I'm guessing he was referring to the other part of the game besides offense. It's been so bad on this team for so long, some people forget it is a VERY important part of the game.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

He's too old for that contract and his playing style and size.

Again, if we didn't have Hart it would be fine. But nobody was going to give us anything of value for Powell.

After seeing the contracts being handed out, i'm not sure I agree with that.

He isn't too old for that contract either. He would be what, 32 when its done?

 

[Phatguysrule]

After seeing the contracts being handed out, i'm not sure I agree with that.

That's okay. Nothing we can do about it now anyway.

 

[Ed O]

What if management loves Dame and told him we will do everything we can to put a contender together for him over the next two years, but if we are not looking like a top four seed the trade deadline after next, we will shop the league to gauge the return from a team he chooses and look to go into a full rebuild with Ant as the only really high paid guy on the roster, sharpe taking form and the haul of picks from trading Dame, I could see giving it two years and then pulling the plug and we could still be I'm decent shape for the future.

They MIGHT have that approach/attitude, but it's a bad one. It's the same thing they've been doing for the last four years or so. But in 2.5 years Dame will be older and Sharpe will be closer to a new contract and the Blazers will not have added much due to trading so many first rounders, with few bright spots on the horizon coming out of the draft (including one to get Grant).

I don't know what we could get for Dame now, but it has to be more than it will be in another couple of seasons... and while I know it's gotta be tough to sell tickets to a 20-win team (which we'd probably be after trading Dame), it seems like a better move in the long run than having a perpetual 45-win team that'll crash down to 20 wins and a bare cupboard. Hope is worth something and the team doesn't really offer much at the moment IMO.

And my middle name is run on sentence.

Mine is "danger". Good to meet you

 

[Ed O]

After seeing the contracts being handed out, i'm not sure I agree with that.

He isn't too old for that contract either. He would be what, 32 when its done?

Both Powell and CJ had contracts that were going to get better as time went on--they were going to see the market go up (making them relatively more valuable) and the remaining years go down (so the financial burden would be lowered).

Giving two starting-level guys away for nothing... it still hurts. I acknowledge that Cronin might have had to do it for financial reasons, but if that's the case it still hurts and I am no more confident now that we'll spend wisely.

 

[RR7]

Both Powell and CJ had contracts that were going to get better as time went on--they were going to see the market go up (making them relatively more valuable) and the remaining years go down (so the financial burden would be lowered).

Giving two starting-level guys away for nothing... it still hurts. I acknowledge that Cronin might have had to do it for financial reasons, but if that's the case it still hurts and I am no more confident now that we'll spend wisely.

CJ was essentially traded with Nance for Hart and Grant, 2 pieces that fit better. Hardly nothing.

 

[blazerkor]

Ok, so what in his game did he "struggle" for 2 months then?

His shooting was good, his assists were good...
maybe, and I might be going out on a limb here, the person who said he "sucked for 2 months" as a starter might be full of it?

I said it wrong. He had two good months as a starter and sucked the other two months. That's what I meant.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Ok, so what in his game did he "struggle" for 2 months then?

His shooting was good, his assists were good...
maybe, and I might be going out on a limb here, the person who said he "sucked for 2 months" as a starter might be full of it?

Ant is a terrible defender.

Worse than CJ, Norm or Dame.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

CJ was essentially traded with Nance for Hart and Grant, 2 pieces that fit better. Hardly nothing.

That's fine. Still doesn't absolve the Clippers deal.

 

[riverman]

Norm just bricked two clutch time freethrows and a layup that would've put him in the playoffs losing to CJ who then went on to lose in the first round...both guys have lost early in the playoffs last two seasons....Ant looked a hell of a lot better than either guy when they shut him down this season...I don't miss Norm or CJ and I'm happy we moved on from Roco and Norm ..even happier with Grant, Hart and Winslow.

 

[Ed O]

Norm just bricked two clutch time freethrows and a layup that would've put him in the playoffs losing to CJ who then went on to lose in the first round...both guys have lost early in the playoffs last two seasons....Ant looked a hell of a lot better than either guy when they shut him down this season...I don't miss Norm or CJ and I'm happy we moved on from Roco and Norm ..even happier with Grant, Hart and Winslow.

Better to get guys that are never in the playoffs, I suppose?

That's a little unfair, as they have 54 combined playoff appearances in 20 combined NBA seasons.

Of course, it's a team game and nobody can make it to the playoffs alone (see LeBron this year) but Winslow and Hart have showed a remarkable inability to be on good teams and Grant hasn't sniffed the playoffs since leaving Denver.

 

[Ed O]

CJ was essentially traded with Nance for Hart and Grant, 2 pieces that fit better. Hardly nothing.

I don't think that's much at all for CJ... and we could have gotten Grant for just about any future draft picks, so I don't see moving CJ as instrumental to that deal (OTHER than maybe to clear salary space).

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't think that's much at all for CJ... and we could have gotten Grant for just about any future draft picks, so I don't see moving CJ as instrumental to that deal (OTHER than maybe to clear salary space).

Portland had the TPE because of the CJ trade, and that was critical from Detroit's POV

 

[Ed O]

Portland had the TPE because of the CJ trade, and that was critical from Detroit's POV

Good point.

I'm not a very big Grant fan and don't think he'll be a big difference-maker here, but you rebutted my "we could have gotten him anyway" assertion very well.

 

[julius]

Ant is a terrible defender.

Worse than CJ, Norm or Dame.

So for 2 months he was a terrible defender and "sucked" and then 2 months he wasn't a terrible defender, and didn't "suck".

 

[riverman]

Better to get guys that are never in the playoffs, I suppose?

That's a little unfair, as they have 54 combined playoff appearances in 20 combined NBA seasons.

Of course, it's a team game and nobody can make it to the playoffs alone (see LeBron this year) but Winslow and Hart have showed a remarkable inability to be on good teams and Grant hasn't sniffed the playoffs since leaving Denver.

I'll take the Winslow and Hart I saw with Nurk and Ant over the Norm and CJ I saw with Nurk.....guys come to Portland and often have career years...Norm didn't....CJ was drafted so I'm optimistic we've improved....I was excited about Norm and Roco but they did not show me what I thought they would for their time here...Roco even got benched. Hart came in and scored 44 as a Blazer....a career high

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

So for 2 months he was a terrible defender and "sucked" and then 2 months he wasn't a terrible defender, and didn't "suck".

No.
He's been a terrible defender his entire career.

 

[wizenheimer]

So for 2 months he was a terrible defender and "sucked" and then 2 months he wasn't a terrible defender, and didn't "suck".

for some stupid reason (my wheelhouse), your post reminded me of that old joke: "the first time Microsoft makes a product that doesn't suck is when they build a vacuum cleaner"

 

[Strenuus]

You know what this is a correlary to?

The los Angeles clippers trade.

Just did it without seeing the market.

 

[julius]

No.
He's been a terrible defender his entire career.

I was responding to something in context to the post.

Jeesh, this place...

 

[illmatic99]

Brunson deal comes with a PO for the 4th year.

 

[bobf]

Ant is a top 25% player according to EPM so 90th or so which is about $13m. I don’t know if you can do that but I just did. He’s young so that should be worth something. Feel like the Blazers continue to undervalue defense though.

 

[Ed O]

I didn't see this posted anywhere, but Hollinger's BORD$ rankings from earlier today:

1. James Harden, SG, Philadelphia: $46,617,283 (previously: 2)
2. Bradley Beal, SG, Washington: $38,520,130 (3)
3. Zach LaVine, SG, Chicago: $31,716,188 (4)
4. Deandre Ayton, C, Phoenix (restricted): $31,406,061 (5)
5. Miles Bridges, PF, Charlotte (restricted): $30,940,550 (6)
6. Jalen Brunson, PG, Dallas: $29,371,294 (7)
7. Chris Boucher, C, Toronto: $19,782,672 (8)
8. Bruce Brown, SF, Brooklyn, $19,043,654 (9)
9. Kyle Anderson, PF, Memphis, $18,990,342 (10)
10. Mitchell Robinson, C, New York: $18,862,212 (11)
11. Jusuf Nurkić, C, Portland: $17,414,518 (12)
12. Otto Porter Jr., SF, Golden State: $16,603,510 (13)
13. Malik Monk, SG, Lakers: $16,511,722 (14)
14. Bobby Portis, C, Milwaukee: $15,793,989 (15)
15. Donte DiVincenzo, SG, Sacramento: $15,551,549 (16)
16. Montrezl Harrell, C, Charlotte: $14,730,416 (17)
17. Delon Wright, PG/SG, Atlanta: $14,546,800 (18)
18. Tyus Jones, PG, Memphis: $13,791,316 (19)
19. Nicolas Batum, SF, Clippers: $13,734,340 (20)
20. Jae’Sean Tate, PF, Houston (restricted): $13,343,341 (NR)
21. Kevon Looney, C, Golden State: $12,533,705 (21)
22. Cody Martin, SG, Charlotte, (restricted): $12,366,850 (22)
23. Anfernee Simons, PG, Portland (restricted): $11,467,484 (23)
24. Collin Sexton, SG, Cleveland (restricted): $10,816,788 (25)
25. Isaiah Hartenstein, LA Clippers: $10,549,849 (NR)

And in a comment, he said:

From everything I'm hearing, Nurkic and Robinson are getting paid in line with their BORD$ values. Boucher, probably not so much. Harrell, not even close.
​

So... Portland basically paid about twice as much (probably a bit less, as presumably his value will go up over time) as that model indicated he was worth. fwiw

 

[TBpup]

Good point.

I'm not a very big Grant fan and don't think he'll be a big difference-maker here, but you rebutted my "we could have gotten him anyway" assertion very well.

#class