Around the NBA: February 2020

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kjironman1 said:
The only way you can read condescension is if you perceive it that way. Because this is written word it is your choice in how it is read?
This tells me that this is the way you communicate. Not the way i do. If i have to put "Honest Question" in front of things i post then that would assume that every other question is not honest. I do not do that because the questions i ask are indeed "Honest Questions"
Originally however. I can understand your confusion. I should have added a question mark at the end of "You can't honestly believe that". I stand corrected.
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I can see why you don't think youre condescending... you're very confused.
 
wow, did this thread go to hell thanks to a usual suspect. :bwpopcorn::bwpopcorn::bwpopcorn:
 
BonesJones said:
I can see why you don't think youre condescending... you're very confused.
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Ok man. It's me.
Personally i feel you are just too insecure about everything and you have some issues dealing with people but that is just the way i see it. Not fact.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
If you were running the Suns and told him that, you'd also risk him being problematic for your franchise for the next 4 years as well. The leverage he has is his influence, and if he legitimately wanted out (not saying he does), he could theoretically wield that like a club every day. Imagine a team's franchise player telling free agents not to sign there, telling fans not to waste their money coming to games, etc.
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So they'd be like the Suns now?

Fans don't usually side with the star player.
 
Condescension is a two way street, and wow, this thread turned into a three lane highway really quickly.
 
kjironman1 said:
I actually like that list even though they have Lillard at #7. It points out pretty clearly that as a second or third option it’s tough to be considered top of anything.
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I felt like it was fair as well. Dame and Doncic are neck and neck.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
No--Doncic is better. I'm not ashamed to admit it.
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Rastapopoulos said:
He certainly will be very soon, if he isn't yet.
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He is. Dame's best year ever is inferior to Doncic's sophomore season in basically every advanced stat aside from TS%.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Perhaps not unquestionably, but he certainly is by my analysis.
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The stats would support it but i take more than stats into account for my personal opinion. I do think Dallas has a franchise player that will lead them for a very long time and in My opinion is a future Hall of Fame player.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
He is. Dame's best year ever is inferior to Doncic's sophomore season in basically every advanced stat aside from TS%.
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...and Real Plus/Minus:
upload_2020-2-19_21-54-51.png
Yes the Mavs are much better this year. But they're also much better when Doncic doesn't play.
(It's funny that Jalen Brunson (who I wanted us to draft when we took Simons, just for the record) is so much higher than Doncic.)
 
kjironman1 said:
Ok man. It's me.
Personally i feel you are just too insecure about everything and you have some issues dealing with people but that is just the way i see it. Not fact.
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I have absolutely no issues, but thank you for your concern. I just don't like condescending people who constantly talk down on others, then act self-righteous and try to take the morale high-ground. It's childish and annoying. It's literally the only problem with this forum for me. The only reason I'm in "drama" right now is I'm calling you out on it (yet again). But if you don't see it, you don't see it. I'm moving on now.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
...and Real Plus/Minus:
View attachment 29914
Yes the Mavs are much better this year. But they're also much better when Doncic doesn't play.
(It's funny that Jalen Brunson (who I wanted us to draft when we took Simons, just for the record) is so much higher than Doncic.)
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Maybe we should trade Dame for Shaquille Harrison and a second round pick?
 
BonesJones said:
Maybe we should trade Dame for Shaquille Harrison and a second round pick?
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It feels like something is totally wrong with this stat. Schroder 7th, Divincenzo better than Middleton, Duncan Robinson better than Butler or Adebayo etc it looks total BS
 
GDiama said:
It feels like something is totally wrong with this stat. Schroder 7th, Divincenzo better than Middleton, Duncan Robinson better than Butler or Adebayo etc it looks total BS
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It makes sense for about 80% of the data set, and for 20% it seems completely random.
 
That's because +/- based statistics are inherently noisy. Adjusted versions of +/- try to employ some clever methods to reduce that noise but even if they're better than raw +/-, it's still built on an indirect measure of value. That's not to say they're useless--some method of on-court/off-court impact is necessary for teasing out effects that aren't captured in direct statistics, like screen-setting, passes that don't immediately result in a bucket but wrong-foot the defense leading to an eventually successful possession, blocking out so a teammate gets a rebound and almost all of the defensive side of the ball.

But without massive amounts of data, it's going to be an extremely imprecise single measure of value. A partial season is way too little data to weed out some silly results, especially for role-players. If you're trying to really understand player value, some version of +/- is important to consider (especially if you have several seasons worth of data) but won't be enough on its own.
 
BonesJones said:
Maybe we should trade Dame for Shaquille Harrison and a second round pick?
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Yeah, yeah, that's what people always say about RPM. But it's pretty hard to get a good RPM on a shitty team, whereas shitty players can get great PERs if they're allowed to gun on shitty teams, so every stat has its flaws.
 
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